I figured out the state of MCH

Obviously SE is repurposing the MCH job. It's been pretty broken in a bad way for a while now, low damage, not really very useful or wanted in high level content because of that and no raid buff to help it out but hold up, what's this?

I can go to the moon and do cosmic exploration and have a flamethrower that works? And I have the drill too?

MCH is a cosmic exploration job now. I expect to be using wildfire in the mech ops next patch, or remotely piloting my own Queen robot. Are you all excited with me?

Compared to the rest of physical ranged, MCH isn't that terrible on rDPS. The role as a whole is though.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Compared to the rest of physical ranged, MCH isn't that terrible on rDPS. The role as a whole is though.

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...c0457b79fe9e3&

Top to bottom : DNC MCH BRD (croping as much as possible to not be against the ToS)

Hmm, is it really? It’s the worst of the three ranged jobs — and ranged DPS is already the weakest DPS category overall.

BRD at least offers better consistency, and both mid and max BRD performance still surpasses it. So yeah… it’s pretty underwhelming across the board.

Just because you see MCH ranked higher on you-know-which website doesn’t automatically mean the job is better. If you actually interpret the numbers, you'll notice that BRD consistently performs better — even in the hands of lower-skilled players.

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Originally Posted by CalvinDescoles

Hmm, is it really? It’s the worst of the three ranged jobs — and ranged DPS is already the weakest DPS category overall.

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Yes really. That isn't a huge difference, fust a few hundred rDPS.

The difference between top and bottom melee is bigger, and difference between top of bottom caster (even when splitting that role up in with/without rez) is bigger.
There will always be one job the lowest dps. And as long as that isn't lowest by a very large margin that is just how it is. MCH doesn't have any god given rights to have top rDPS of the rphys jobs.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Yes really. That isn't a huge difference, fust a few hundred rDPS.

The difference between top and bottom melee is bigger, and difference between top of bottom caster (even when splitting that role up in with/without rez) is bigger.
There will always be one job the lowest dps. And as long as that isn't lowest by a very large margin that is just how it is. MCH doesn't have any god given rights to have top rDPS of the rphys jobs.

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What about the fact melees are balanced around having an aoe damage buffs or not? Samurai and viper are stupid easy but get to deal fat damage for being selfish. Ninjas weak because the devs seem to still think it has a party buffs every minute and it doesn't and needs buffs. Machinist is the most neglected job in. The game for 3 expansions. It has a horrible disjointed aoe kit, no aoe raid buffs and is much harder to play than dancer. It SHOULD ABSOLUTELY be out damaging at least the other phys ranged. Your statement about is is nonsensical and keep the job in purgatory.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Yes really. That isn't a huge difference, fust a few hundred rDPS.

The difference between top and bottom melee is bigger, and difference between top of bottom caster (even when splitting that role up in with/without rez) is bigger.
There will always be one job the lowest dps. And as long as that isn't lowest by a very large margin that is just how it is. MCH doesn't have any god given rights to have top rDPS of the rphys jobs.

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In M6S, the fight that matters the most for prog groups especially in PF right now, MCH is roughly 1500 dps behind BRD, which in turn is behind DNC. It really isn't okay.

This is around 80th percentile, which is a good point to aim for I've found, it's not the max but it's in the hands of skilled players. It does do slightly more than DNC in M5S and M7S and is bottom again in M8S. MCH needs help, honestly all the phys ranged should be doing more and so should the casters with rez. Not saying bump them up to melee and BLM status but give them more damage than they have.

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Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

What about the fact melees are balanced around having an aoe damage buffs or not? Samurai and viper are stupid easy but get to deal fat damage for being selfish. Ninjas weak because the devs seem to still think it has a party buffs every minute and it doesn't and needs buffs. Machinist is the most neglected job in. The game for 3 expansions. It has a horrible disjointed aoe kit, no aoe raid buffs and is much harder to play than dancer. It SHOULD ABSOLUTELY be out damaging at least the other phys ranged. Your statement about is is nonsensical and keep the job in purgatory.

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Check out cDPS charts. MCH already outdamages the other rphys below 70p on M5S, and still continues outdamaging DNC by very little on M7S. It's completely garbage on M6S however, and seems to lag behind in every percentile for now on M8S. So what does this tell us?

1) MCH AoE kit is garbage. Beyond questionable gameplay loop and design, it just doesn't pump enough damage, so we end up with the job griefing in M6S.
2) MCH is able to outdamage other rphys in non optimized comps and groups, and it tends to show notably on M5S which is the entry gate of the tier. Even in M7S it still beats DNC by a thin margin, and only falls behind in M8S, where the competition is way higher as usual. With this in mind it means that taking MCH in non optimized duties actually performs better because heavy buffers lile BRD and DNC lose a lot of their total potential with parties that don't take advantage of it fully.
3) So all of this isn't that clear cut when comparing every job within the role, and the only thing that actually is, is that all of rphys is trash tier. No surprise here for anyone.

The second point especially hints at how unsustainable it is to have a selfish DPS in a role designed for heavy buffers. Said heavy buffers still suck ass in the party contribution department, but their profile also follows completely different rules than for a (gimped) selfish DPS like MCH.

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Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

What about the fact melees are balanced around having an aoe damage buffs or not?

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That is already included in the rDPS metric.

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Originally Posted by Valence

So what does this tell us?

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MCH already does way higher personal AoE damage than either BRD or DNC, and doesn't do badly compared to most other jobs. But raid buffs are not balanced around AoE in raid content. Compared to other fights it's not that MCH underperforms hugely in M6S, raid buffs are overperforming. And I doubt it's possible to reasonably balance that by buffing MCH AoE damage. To get MCH, BRD and DNC similar rDPS in every fight, they'll need similar ways to contribute to rDPS. So all, or none, need raid buffs.

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Originally Posted by Valence

all of rphys is trash tier

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Pretty much yes. Even with their hugely overperforming raid buffs in M6S, BRD and DNC can barely keep up with other dps roles.

It has to be mentioned that both bard and machinist seems to have much lower number of parses than dancer, like 3x less (at m5s last time i looked) hence it can be safely assumed that dancer's statistics are much diluted and therefore not good comparison to mch/brd. Id bet that people that are sticking to mch this tier genuinely like the job and know how to play it. Thats also why usually the median of mch parses is actually pretty high

MCH Queen should be a suit like Ironman or Robot (Invincible) that changes your skills.

https://i.redd.it/hgsambr7fdyb1.png

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Originally Posted by aiqa

That is already included in the rDPS metric.



MCH already does way higher personal AoE damage than either BRD or DNC, and doesn't do badly compared to most other jobs. But raid buffs are not balanced around AoE in raid content. Compared to other fights it's not that MCH underperforms hugely in M6S, raid buffs are overperforming. And I doubt it's possible to reasonably balance that by buffing MCH AoE damage. To get MCH, BRD and DNC similar rDPS in every fight, they'll need similar ways to contribute to rDPS. So all, or none, need raid buffs.



Pretty much yes. Even with their hugely overperforming raid buffs in M6S, BRD and DNC can barely keep up with other dps roles.

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If it was raid buffs overperforming then VPR wouldn't be overwhelmingly higher than anything else with no raid buffs. Please use your brain.

Selfish jobs can do very good on that fight, the two highest are both jobs with no raid buffs so how can raid buffs be the problem?

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Originally Posted by Carstien

If it was raid buffs overperforming then VPR wouldn't be overwhelmingly higher than anything else with no raid buffs. Please use your brain.

Selfish jobs can do very good on that fight, the two highest are both jobs with no raid buffs so how can raid buffs be the problem?

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I think you should read the post you're quoting again. I'm pretty sure it says that even with raid buffs helping them more in those AoE situations, BRD and DNC still struggle nonetheless.
MCH still sucks because MCH is a rphys that tries to pretend it's a selfish job. A rphys selfish job suffers from the downsides of both worlds.

Would not be surprised they haven't turbo buffed MCH yet, and made it a proper pure DPS is because they know it will kill BRD if they did so, and so they have to buff/change both jobs at the same time. Balance MCH with BLM, and then balance BRD with current PCT.

Honestly just normalize the damage between dps roles at this point. Hard buffs brd and dnc buffs and machinist personal damage. Make everything be way closer when played well.