The Vanguard: why is it here ?

Hi fellows lore fan !
I'm coming with a new question I'm struggling to get an answer from the game or bits of lore on the internet !
I don't think it has been addressed as well in the forums, so here it is:

The Vanguard, why did it appear ?
From our POV we had to get a mean to cross the barrier between the two worlds so it's like a godsend it appeared... But it was totally on the enemy's hand to build it, we did nothing except for strengthening the train we rode at that time.
Since Zoraal Ja's managed to come out of the dome with so many airships and that large, why in the first time did they need to build that fortress bridging the two places ?

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Originally Posted by Astralia

Hi fellows lore fan !
I'm coming with a new question I'm struggling to get an answer from the game or bits of lore on the internet !
I don't think it has been addressed as well in the forums, so here it is:

The Vanguard, why did it appear ?
From our POV we had to get a mean to cross the barrier between the two worlds so it's like a godsend it appeared... But it was totally on the enemy's hand to build it, we did nothing except for strengthening the train we rode at that time.
Since Zoraal Ja's managed to come out of the dome with so many airships and that large, why in the first time did they need to build that fortress bridging the two places ?

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Because vanguard is what tethers the dome in the source because it physically links them

Zarool ja couldn’t send the ships through the dome if vanguard wasn’t tethering the dome to the source because otherwise the dome would be in the 9th

Then is it just an in-between quests weird kink ? Because the Vanguard does not appears until we reach the cutscene where we go to it by train, or the dome appeared because they managed to build the Vanguard, and it's behind the mountains we can't see and where the cutscene plays ?

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Originally Posted by Astralia

Then is it just an in-between quests weird kink ? Because the Vanguard does not appears until we reach the cutscene where we go to it by train, or the dome appeared because they managed to build the Vanguard, and it's behind the mountains we can't see and where the cutscene plays ?

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Basically, yes. Heritage Found is a fairly large distance away from Shaloaani; big enough to warrant a train line. To get a vague idea of how far they intended it, The game's world map puts Shaaloani at around where Texas is in the US, while Heritage Found is off somewhere near Nevada; if that's even remotely accurate, then the fact we can even see the dome at all is because of in-game distance abstraction.

I don't think Vanguard is actually important to the dome's existence (that seems like it might be more of an Everkeep thing) so much as it is important to transit through it; Vanguard is a fortress built on the only route in and out of the place (thanks to said train line, Vanguard seems to be built on/around a mountain pass), meaning that whoever holds it has complete control of transit in and out; a very important border checkpoint in a war scenario like Zoraal Ja wanted. Unfortunately for him, that also made it the first thing to fall.

So the dome appears. Within that dome, time passes until Vanguard is completed, and is able to act as a hole in the dome, truly allowing the inside and outside to temporally sync, so about 30 years. The only bit of Vanguard that comes through is a door and part of a wall, which is far enough away from us when it appears that we simply don't see it at the time.

The dome appears because Sphene in the Ninth tried to merge the worlds with the artefact. At this point the flow of time remains separated and anyone pulled in there from Tural is now operating on Alexandrian time.

Inside the dome, thirty years pass. Vanguard is built during this time to breach the dome and connect the worlds directly.

I assume they've emerged with a large amount of pre-fab pieces to assemble the outside of the base very quickly. They would have had as long to work on it as the Turali group spent rebuilding the train, and they have an army of automatons to do it.

I'm actually on a second run of the msq, but it seemed to me indeed the Vanguard had been achieved after the dome appeared, and after Zoraal Ja and his ships came out of the dome, it only came to me: why was there a need to build the Vanguard at all. Because except maintaining contact between two worlds (since I think the contact Sphene made between the two is unstable), and the time sync... but I don't think they're that aware of the time sync between the worlds... besides with their large ships, they have every means to attack us with large troops and go back to their world already, therefore I see no reasons why they would need to build the Vanguard.

It's actually us who would have had a need of building a way to cross the dome

They're planning to invade the Source and harvest souls, so they need a base of operations to work from and supply their warships.

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Originally Posted by Astralia

I'm actually on a second run of the msq, but it seemed to me indeed the Vanguard had been achieved after the dome appeared, and after Zoraal Ja and his ships came out of the dome, it only came to me: why was there a need to build the Vanguard at all. Because except maintaining contact between two worlds (since I think the contact Sphene made between the two is unstable), and the time sync... but I don't think they're that aware of the time sync between the worlds... besides with their large ships, they have every means to attack us with large troops and go back to their world already, therefore I see no reasons why they would need to build the Vanguard.

It's actually us who would have had a need of building a way to cross the dome

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Vanguard was built to breach the dome. That's the whole point. In the hallway after the second boss you can see it's a tunnel between the dome and the outside. Without it, you'd be fried by the lightning. And it's a resupply base for the airships and drones, hence the name "Vanguard".

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Originally Posted by Astralia

It's actually us who would have had a need of building a way to cross the dome

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Exactly.

Putting aside specific uncertainties that may not matter like 'when exactly it got built' and 'what exactly is its relationship with the dome', there's one thing we know for absolute certain about Vanguard, and that's its location: it is exactly ON the train line. Not near it, but on it; we ran the Dawnblazer directly into it. The train line is the one reliable way to get into Yyasulani, and Vanguard is their way of seizing control. Alexandrian air traffic is able to get through the dome thanks to electrope ships, but on-the-ground troops from either side, they have to go through that one tunnel.

Iscah and Dikatis are right, that this is also a supply depot; that's clear to see in the first chunk of the dungeon. It also seems to be some form of logistics or administrative hub, going by the final boss arena. But theoretically, a supply depot and logistics hub could've gone anywhere: they put Vanguard where it is specifically to get in our way. To control the one point of on-the-ground access.

The Vanguard is quite literally a battering ram that has secondary if not also tertriary functions after fulfilling its use as said battering ram.

Making most of this topic to explore other questions I asked myself during my second run:

- The living memory: is it really the famous 12th floor of the Everkeep as told in the msq ?
Explaining myself: we were told Solution 9 is the 9th floor and the biggest floor of the Everkeep... however, it seems the area we visit is small compared to the vastness of the whole floor. Besides there is only one big aetheryte. When we go to origenics to get to the 11th floor, where we fight Zoraal Ja, there is literally nothing more above our heads, save for the huge black purplish gate Sphene took there is leading to the living memory. However, if we stick to the numerical model of the Everkeep Cahciua and Shale show us in the Backroom, there should be something physical leading throughout the gate, like behind Zoraal Ja's throne or something like this. Furthermore, the sky is plain blue up there though we should be in a dark sky as we are at the bottom of the Everkeep, it's like we can't even see the lighning dome whereas we should see it clearly... when we ere on the ground at the feet of the Everkeep, looking from afar like from Yyasulani's train station, we clearly guess there is some thing physical going through the clouds, above the 9th floor and above the 11th floor we can distinguish.... I know I may quibbling over what seems minor details, but I think something missed there from the point of view of immersion...

- Size of the living memory: even if Solution 9 is a small part we visit. We know its high as shown by its size and from the exterior, and only from what we are shown and unless I'm wrong here, living memory is supposed to be smaller than Solution 9, however... living memory has 3 aetherytes and an infinite-like horizon area with large skyscrapers and all... I can't fathom it being on top of the Everkeep when we're told Solution 9 is the biggest floor... any idea ?

- Vegetation in the living memory: How can vegetation and water can persist in the living memory when we're deleting every Endless we meet (save for in-game quests to aether winds for example), every area in the living memory just become plain inert electrope. Like dead areas where nothing should live, or remain living after centuries...

- Another thing: the gate above the 11th floor. It leads to another shard, the one from where the living memory is. However, we know the Heritage Found is also from that same shard, right ? Though it has fused with our world with the Key to link the worlds. Therefore: does the Vanguard, in the end, act as a gate like this void-gates like and the one above the 11th floor or the one in the depths of the Skydeep Cenote, or does it only act as a mean to cross the lightning dome as we were told too ? Like without the Vanguard they couldn't cross the dome as some of you said too because they were grilled when trying to do so.

In two answers since I overwhelmed the words count !


Following my last paragraph - But it's kinda weird when, even fused with our world, their lightning dome kept the time desync between their world and ours working. I thought their lightning dome was just a barrier they put up to keep them safe from the lightning Calamity... and in the end we're told they can't even cross their own barrier ? Am kinda confused there... Like there's 3 gates leading to the same shard, but with the Vanguard, fused with our world, acting as just a mean to cross that dome and as a an airlock between two worlds...

As far as we know Living Memory is the top floor of Everkeep. And almost all areas are much bigger than what we can actually wander around in, there's more to even Gridannia, Limsa and Ul'Dah as well, for example. And on the topic of their being no physical pillars of the sort connecting through the portal... Solution 9 has the tech to create floating materials, why wouldn't the most important place be like that. In that event, even if Everkeep fell, Living Memory would be able to survive. As for the sky... likely a result of there being such a large gate, aetherial disturbances affecting the surroundings is... rather typical, we even see it in the Zoraal Ja fight.

It's also worth remembering that as per Strayborough Deadwalk, not all of Everkeep made it through the dimensional fusion in one piece, though exactly what got lost is not entirely elaborated on, and is likely not too relevant. Living Memory was originally concieved as a place where the living would visit the recreations of the dead, but that meaning ultimately got lost. So Living Memory would be big, just not as big as Solution 9.

As to the vegetation... actual living people used to be welcomed into Living Memory, and so actual natural resources were needed... and you know, life ever finds a way to continue, even without proper people to tend to it.

And Vanguard is not a gateway like the one in the Skydeep Cenote, it was ultimately a battering ram, due to the thunderdome acting like a dimensional barrier. It did that because, despite concieving of dimensional fusion, no one actually knows the proper science behind it, so this was rather unexpected. The all encompassing barrier, effectivly allowed Heritage Found/Yyasulani to exist in a Schrodinger's cat like scenario where the area within the dome was both areas at once. Still, without the thunderdome, Alexandria, or rather the remnant of it, wouldn't be able to use their electrope, and by extension their soul related culture would break down.

Bit of an ugly series of answers here format-wise, but here goes.

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Originally Posted by Astralia

Making most of this topic to explore other questions I asked myself during my second run:

- The living memory: is it really the famous 12th floor of the Everkeep as told in the msq ?

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Living Memory is essentially 'code-named' as the twelfth floor--or more correctly, the portal is. It seems to be given a fake, innocuous name as a coverup to hide the truth of the system.

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- Size of the living memory: even if Solution 9 is a small part we visit. We know its high as shown by its size and from the exterior, and only from what we are shown and unless I'm wrong here, living memory is supposed to be smaller than Solution 9, however... living memory has 3 aetherytes and an infinite-like horizon area with large skyscrapers and all... I can't fathom it being on top of the Everkeep when we're told Solution 9 is the biggest floor... any idea ?

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It is, not, however, physically on top of the Everkeep. It's on Alexandria's original home world, the Ninth. It doesn't need to fit on top of Solution Nine, because it's not actually there.

I'd wager Living Memory to be approximately the size of Disney World, though. It's big, but it's ultimately a prop recreation of the world that was, and not a proper simulation.

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- Vegetation in the living memory: How can vegetation and water can persist in the living memory when we're deleting every Endless we meet (save for in-game quests to aether winds for example), every area in the living memory just become plain inert electrope. Like dead areas where nothing should live, or remain living after centuries...

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Living Memory hasn't been shut down for long, and the Windspath Gardens especially I'd wager have a good amount of life in them just because it does seem to be a largely stable ecosystem; none of its flora and fauna is fake, the electrope just kept it alive and healthy. Going back to the theme park comparison, plenty of the abandoned ones just have their greenery kinda 'overgrow' their intended confines.

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Like without the Vanguard they couldn't cross the dome as some of you said too because they were grilled when trying to do so.

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Vanguard is not a portal except in the sense that 'portal' is essentially just a fancy word for 'door'. It's a fancy tunnel to get into the dome, it's not doing anything dimensional; that was the key, and systems within the Everkeep and/or Meso Terminal.

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Originally Posted by Astralia

Following my last paragraph - But it's kinda weird when, even fused with our world, their lightning dome kept the time desync between their world and ours working. I thought their lightning dome was just a barrier they put up to keep them safe from the lightning Calamity... and in the end we're told they can't even cross their own barrier ? Am kinda confused there... Like there's 3 gates leading to the same shard, but with the Vanguard, fused with our world, acting as just a mean to cross that dome and as a an airlock between two worlds...

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The dome isn't especially explicitly explained, but for the purposes of this conversation, it's mainly important to remember that it's a Big Honkin' Wall Of Lightning. You can't walk through it not because it's some special dimensional barrier, but because you would die, to the lightning.

Heritage Found is part of the Source now, and has been for as long as we've been able to call it 'Heritage Found'. We don't cross dimensions when we go through Vanguard; Alexandria crossed dimensions to get to us. We don't know exactly why the lightning dome is still there, but we can reason that either they can't or won't turn it off.

EDIT: The dome might not even be an artificial system, but just an effect of Alexandria pulling over its literal atmosphere over to the Source. In that context, a lot of these questions would have fairly natural answers; they're working around the thing just as much as we are, and can't get rid of it.

Thanks for your answers !

Regarding vegetation, it's because at the end living memory just seem to me like "dead electrope" having no aether left in it, so can't process lightning aether or stuff with the circuits, and when we get there, we're told it's already suffering from aether depletion, hence they're short on hands or can't be reincarnated, that's why I though with those facts, everything should die

Regarding the living memory I thought the living memory was physically connected to the other floors of the Everkeep because of that (pictures below):
https://postimg.cc/rKmY3Lmz
https://postimg.cc/gw22CJf1
they say (Alisaie): map is cut off and (Shale/Cahciua) lack of map data above 11th floor. I actually may have mistaken a thing... Could it actually be the 11th floor is inside the Everkeep, I mean inside the exterior wall, and representing the exterior with the sky (as in Heaven-on-high), and the gate to the shard is actually inside the tower ? There, the potential physical link they show us is not actually there because of their lack of map data and floating on electrope thingies as Layte_Aeon said ?
Though when we're in the living memory, looking at the bottom of it, we kinda see like a pillar with a turbine working underneath, like the pillar/physical link between LM and the underneath floors (11th, S9 and all) is actually there ?

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The dome isn't especially explicitly explained, but for the purposes of this conversation, it's mainly important to remember that it's a Big Honkin' Wall Of Lightning. You can't walk through it not because it's some special dimensional barrier, but because you would die, to the lightning.

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Yeah I understood that part in the end, but as Layte_Aeon said as well, the dome seem to make the zone act like in a Schrodinger's cat state, that's why I was wondering whether, besides its time-sync effect, the Vanguard also acted like a gate, but seems to be not the case !

Thanks for your answers anyway, my mind is clearer now :D