Dungeons: Moment or Location

Something that has been on my mind when it comes to FFXIV is that many of the dungeons to me don't feel like they have a real presence in the game world. they're more about the moment of story that surrounds you clearing them, especially the further you go.

A lot of them kinda just take place in what feels like (or at times literally is) a pocket dimension. to me it makes the ones that have a real physical presence much much more enjoyable to think about.

Some examples, Tender Valley, Straborough Deadwalk, Vanguard, the dead ends, aetherfont, Holminster switch, ect. a lot of dungeons just feel soo very disconnected from the zones that supposedly lead into them. and given a lot of them are towns, places people live and work at. it'd be way nicer to be able to see what things are like at those locations before and after you run them as a dungeon.
Ala Mhigo is tragic in that it's a gorgeous backdrop to a town you sprint through while dunking on mobs. Hominster is a gorgeous looking field and farmland that presumably isn't completely on fire forever after you do the dungeon, what does it look like now? we'll never see.

The exceptions stand out. I have a fondness for when they let us walk back through a dungeon after it was done. Hilariously despite taking place in a side dimension the fell court of troia gave you the chance to walk around in it in a much calmer state. I kinda adore that, same with Lapis Manalis.

and to me the bests are the ones that have a **very** physical presence in the world like how you can fly around the building of Kitisis hyperborea to see it's exterior. The way the tower of Babil looms over garlemald and that quests take you back there many a time.

and the absolutely lovely way in how many ARR and Heavensward zones do a nice job of having dungeons feel baked into the world, freaking right outside ul'dah you can see how the cave entrance to cutter's just works with the environment.

I will always love it more when it feels like the first room of a dungeon is right past this part of the overworld that you're standing on. where it feels like you could almost look into it.

and then you get those weird lobby area's in the msq right before you do a dungeon for the first time and then never see again.. like the crash zone into the wall of Vanguard before you run it...
you never really see the intersection point of heritage found and shaaloni after that lobby zone disappears instead there's a train tunnel that zooops you to a different train tunnel miles away in the other zone. and it's weird and unsatisfying to me.

Obviously there's a good mix of both pocket dimension and real physical locations that you can fly right up to in every expansion.. I just want them to do more with the latter. because it's fucking coooool.

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Originally Posted by LuisMikhail

Something that has been on my mind when it comes to FFXIV is that many of the dungeons to me don't feel like they have a real presence in the game world. they're more about the moment of story that surrounds you clearing them, especially the further you go.

A lot of them kinda just take place in what feels like (or at times literally is) a pocket dimension. to me it makes the ones that have a real physical presence much much more enjoyable to think about.

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I think a small part of this issue comes from continued efforts to shoehorn other FF titles into 14.

Take the crystal tower alliance raids. The crystal tower is a central landmark of Mor Dhona and you go in it for the raids. Contrast that with the awful thing in DT where's there's a dislocated side story taking you somewhere else entirely, involving completely irrelevant characters.

I started ARR in March 2024 and I first noticed dungeons feeling disconnected from the world in Shadowbringers, particularly Dohn Mheg. Even The Heroes' Gauntlet felt off for me. I get that its supposed to be in the overworld (sorta), but it just didn't feel like it. I sorely miss the feel of ARR dungeons. I'm still on EW, but dungeons now feel more like hallways that are solely meant as a funnel to the next cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I think a small part of this issue comes from continued efforts to shoehorn other FF titles into 14.

Take the crystal tower alliance raids. The crystal tower is a central landmark of Mor Dhona and you go in it for the raids. Contrast that with the awful thing in DT where's there's a dislocated side story taking you somewhere else entirely, involving completely irrelevant characters.

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The Crystal Tower is one of those "shoehorned other FFs". The way it's presented as a physical location has nothing to do with its origin.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The Crystal Tower is one of those "shoehorned other FFs". The way it's presented as a physical location has nothing to do with its origin.

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Fair point, but I was blissfully unaware of that at the time, and to me it flowed more naturally with the story. And was also important to the story moving forward, obviously.

I would have to disagree with you and say that most dungeons are connected to the world, to the point of having physical entry points visible in the open world. In many cases, a vague version of the whole dungeon is visible in the open world, and this seems to include the 7.2 dungeon, where we seem to be able to enter the top of it right now.

Tender Valley is literally connected to Shaaloani and is themed similarly. Vanguard has a physical exit point in Heritage Found. Holminster Switch has a gate going to it directly in Lakeland and it is themed similarly. Ala Mhigo is partially in the open world and partially a dungeon, and some aspects of the dungeon (aka the town) are visible in the distance.

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the absolutely lovely way in how many ARR and Heavensward zones do a nice job of having dungeons feel baked into the world

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It's in other expansions too. Shisui of the Violet Tides, Doma Castle, Temple of the Fist, Castrum Abania, Hell's Lid, Swallow's Compass (giant building in Yanxia), The Burn is visible from Azim Steppe, The Qitana Ravel, Malikah's Well, Mt. Gulg, The Twinning, Paglth'an, Zot, Babil, Ktisis, Atiascope, Worqor Zormor, Skydeep Cenote, Origenics.

All the ones I listed there have massively visual parts in the open world. I didn't mention ones that aren't really much, such as ones that fly you away, but rather where the building or main structure in the dungeon is visible in the open world.

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Hominster is a gorgeous looking field and farmland that presumably isn't completely on fire forever after you do the dungeon, what does it look like now? we'll never see.

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I agree that it would be good if the dungeons could be made to reflect current events, such as by becoming permanent zones after you complete them. But all we have been given is Explorer Mode, unfortunately.

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you never really see the intersection point of heritage found and shaaloni after that lobby zone disappears instead there's a train tunnel that zooops you to a different train tunnel miles away in the other zone. and it's weird and unsatisfying to me.

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I agree but what I figured over time is they intend for the dungeon to be that itself, so that's why I think the dungeons should become zones after you complete them. But most likely they want to save server capacity from running persistent zones that nobody uses. They already run a lot of MSQ zones constantly despite nobody using them most of the time.

If any dungeons seem to exist in the moment, it's the ones that show you the past. It was cool when we were running through Amaurot, but now it's overdone. The Dead Ends, The Stigma Dreamscape, The Lunar Subterrane, and Alexandria are all guilty of this. After you've done them once, it's like being forced to rewatch cutscenes while beating up easy enemies.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Fair point, but I was blissfully unaware of that at the time, and to me it flowed more naturally with the story. And was also important to the story moving forward, obviously.

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I was in the same boat. I would have never guessed that CT was from another FF game. It really did feel seamless.

If dungeons are so disconnected, what about the raids and trials and their single boss standing in the middle of a random circle arena?

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Originally Posted by Valence

If dungeons are so disconnected, what about the raids and trials and their single boss standing in the middle of a random circle arena?

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One reason why I found it so fricking hard to get emotionally invested in the Eden Raids. There was no sense of place or setting. It was just, "Okay lets teleport to xyz location to fight your memories of primals...or something like that."

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Originally Posted by JohnLakeside

I started ARR in March 2024 and I first noticed dungeons feeling disconnected from the world in Shadowbringers, particularly Dohn Mheg.

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Doesn't surprise me, Shadowbringers was when the world building became more of an afterthought. The character writing in Shadowbringers was strong, but the zones, dungeons and raids became mostly set dressing, a visually appealing prop in which dramatical story moments happen.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Doesn't surprise me, Shadowbringers was when the world building became more of an afterthought. The character writing in Shadowbringers was strong, but the zones, dungeons and raids became mostly set dressing, a visually appealing prop in which dramatical story moments happen.

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I know i'm in the minority, but I think the character writing in Shadowbringers was also weak. Other than Emet and kinda Thancred, none of the other characters were really fleshed out. Certainly not to the extent Fordola, Tsuyu, Gosetsu were. Maybe you could say Ryne was fleshed out, but I didn't find her arc all that interesting.

The Scions have always been cardboard pieces of paper and walking tropes that do act more like robots and less like humans tbh, with only too little exceptions. No matter the expansion.

The main issue with the Scions is that they feel like a modern JRPG party, in that they are glued together rather than feeling like real people. In Trails in the Sky, you have people coming to and fro, weaving in and out of your party and going where their motivations take them. In Dragon Age Origins, you have party members that have disagreements with each other and will leave over them. In FF14, the characters who feel the most real are the Heavensward and Stormblood locals like Estinien and Gosetsu. They are in the party not because they are your party members like the Scions, but because for the moment your motivations are intersecting. They are on a mission of their own, and they are allowed to express disagreement.

thank you for the more fleshed out list.
I might have comfirmation bias in that the dungeons as story moment ones are the ones I see the most of when doing roulettes.
I like the idea of them becoming more like OW zones once the expac is over..

also Mt. Gulg and Babil to me feels like the perfect examples of mixing the two ideas. the way they loooms over the local environment constantly is very cool.