So, What was the excuse again regarding Hroth and Viera?

I'm failing to see why even new additions cannot be worn by them, Mi'qote has existed for years (since the start) and they can wear anything.

Au'ra which have horns can wear just about anything

But bunny ears? TOO FAR!

Fuzzy mane? TOO FAAAAAAAAR!

It's bad enough all the Hyur beards are pencil'd on but telling me you can't wear a hat cause it'd conflict with ears or a mane is a joke.

I want to play a Viera but i also do not want to be restricted purely to masks and earrings.

Why even introduce a race if you're going to restrict them like that? That point you might aswell just give them a replacement for headgear unique to the class like capes, hoods, or allow them to permanently wear fashion accessories in combat included.

If you can fit any set to work on a lalafell you don't got an excuse why hats don't work on bunnies.

None of the excuses add up when a player adjusted all the hats for Viera and Hrothgar and put it up for download. They did what a multi-billion yen company can't in 6 years.

They just flat out can't have even tried.

Personally it doesn't bother me too much because I typically don't wear a lot of hats to begin with, but there are some that I do wish I could wear
The compensation that the viera and hrothgar players were meant to get in lieu of not being able to wear headgear would've been unique hairstyles, but nothing has been said on that front

Bare minimum everything Shadowbringers and beyond should work, because that's when the races were first added and from there they know they exist and have to work with them
That, and everything on the mogstation, the level 1 glam items, and MSQ items like the garlean disguise in stormblood, because otherwise you are very obviously not disguised and it takes away from the scene

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

None of the excuses add up when a player adjusted all the hats for Viera and Hrothgar and put it up for download. They did what a multi-billion yen company can't in 6 years.

They just flat out can't have even tried.

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It's very clearly very low on their list of priorities, if it's even on there at all
and I feel like the longer they take to address / work on the issue the more challenging it will be because they'll have more to work with
However that could be ignorance on my part for not knowing how it works, as I've seen people say it's the hairstyles that cause the issue

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Originally Posted by CVXIV

It's very clearly very low on their list of priorities, if it's even on there at all
and I feel like the longer they take to address / work on the issue the more challenging it will be because they'll have more to work with
However that could be ignorance on my part for not knowing how it works, as I've seen people say it's the hairstyles that cause the issue

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I doubt it's even on their radar, They've realized people will put up with it and not ask questions.

SE= Devs who do what their told, when their told and how their told.
Modders and Indie devs= Do whatever they Hell they please, when they please, how they please.

Good example of Indie: Stardew valleys developers concerned ape paying more attention to Stardew valley then his next game that he has in developement.

Developers at SE try doing what Concerned ape is doing and they will be unemployed.

The game is all optimal. The whole game is one glorious edifice of meta. And when you lay the dev time needed out on a spreadsheet, it's far from optimal. I'm not entirely joking.

It's not as simple for Square to do it than it is for forbidden third party tools. The game itself needs to keep in mind server loads and game memory. Somebodies PC can just operate additional memory locally until their computer melts, but Square needs to attempt to run a stable and functional game for multiple systems.

Is there ways to add Viera hats? yes. But I would guess they might have to rework the models and hair too. I hope they get around to it. But I also understand it's not quite as easy as people make it out to be.

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Originally Posted by SalamanderIX

The game itself needs to keep in mind server loads

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Not a factor for visual appearance.

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and game memory.

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This is a factor they consider, but they are considering a worst case scenario (a hunt train, S rank or special FATE boss) where a huge number of players may load. However, there is not going to be a difference between 100 Hrothgars wearing a hat and 100 Hyurs wearing a hat.

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Is there ways to add Viera hats? yes. But I would guess they might have to rework the models and hair too.

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Yes, but the point is a single player did all that on their own, yet a multi-billion yen company can't.

"Low on the priority list" or something to that effect.

All they'd have to do is: "Person-san has created some assets that some people have already been using on PC. We're happy to bring those now for everyone formally into the game." Then they just get Person-san as a contractor every patch and case closed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

It's not just visual, being told what visual to see is sent to you, which is a client server process, and one more thing to be loaded into the clients memory. Every option adds a larger list it's having to load from and is a challenge. Read Yoship describe the difficulty of creating more glamour slots.

Perhaps they were not happy with the quality of the Viera ears when they tried to rework how the models worked either. Something like a mod there could be a lot of things people are overlooking, but I'm sure these forums would be flooded with people upset about how their Viera ears looked if they changed them. It's not as easy as a mod because the complications and expectation is just at an entirely different level.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Not a factor for visual appearance.
This is a factor they consider, but they are considering a worst case scenario (a hunt train, S rank or special FATE boss) where a huge number of players may load. However, there is not going to be a difference between 100 Hrothgars wearing a hat and 100 Hyurs wearing a hat.
Yes, but the point is a single player did all that on their own, yet a multi-billion yen company can't.

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Keep in mind, a 'single player' is not restricted on the limitations and guidelines of how hairs and hats work on characters. Or how it all performs at Limsa during primetime.
Designers are given a 'memory/storage budget' of how much they can work with, and it's not much for the sake of stability.
That's why the wavy haircut we recently have gotten looks like a discount version of the design that was made during the contest - It HAS to even work properly on the minimal spec of the game, even when the place is crowded.

The Hrothgar/Viera case are ... unique, and did not work it through properly with the head rigging.
If you take a look at the male Hrothgar from the side, the hair is *much* different from the usual, and rigging the hat pieces would require a lot of work.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Keep in mind, a 'single player' is not restricted on the limitations and guidelines of how hairs and hats work on characters. Or how it all performs at Limsa during primetime.

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Right, but they are generally the same hats other races are wearing, which SE made to handle those situations - just adjusted for Hrothgar and Viera. Are they really adding 20,000 extra polygons to the hats in order to adjust them?

I sure hope double dye and outfit glamor dont get thrown in the Viera/Hroth hat shed.

They have given up giving excuses and are just staying silent.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Right, but they are generally the same hats other races are wearing, which SE made to handle those situations - just adjusted for Hrothgar and Viera. Are they really adding 20,000 extra polygons to the hats in order to adjust them?

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Hair needs to be bent and creased at certain points to accommodate the hat, which can also increase the memory/storage load.

I believe it's also about keeping a certain level of acceptable quality going - Especially when it comes to the ears of the hrothgar and viera. Sure, some clipping can be acceptable but at many times there is so much going on around the ears that its simply not feasible to display them in the first place.

An example, if I may - Imagine a tophat, where the viera ears clip along the cylinder section at the middle, covering the ear half in length and width. And that's only one of the ears you can have on them. Then there are also the faces of the hrothgar that look different on a fundamental level, coming in different sizes and having different ears and facial features like horns and weird whiskers.
Taking that into account, you would have to individually adjust each set of ears and the faces, for each headpiece, for both viera and hrothgar - And keep them in a position that is somewhat realistic without changing the features of the hat itself or removing anything from their face.

I would believe that is simply not feasible for SE to pick it apart on such a level, as much as I would like them see trying. Maybe they attempted to, and the result was just not up to snuff on a level that was deemed acceptable, or they didn't want to dedicate a group of people for such a lengthy process. (As a fun fact, you even notice it on a few more recent headpieces with Elezen and Miqo'te at times: Not even their ears are safe from being removed when they simply not work.)

Sure, there was an attempt with adding glasses to the Hrothgar - But if you do take a closer look, they are not very well placed at times due to the difference in their facial forms. So I am not sure if I want to see such a level of work on head pieces, though.

Could they do better? Yes. Absolutely.
What I would want to see is that they could offer a more in-depth explanation about this and what is on their radar regarding this all.

This is my late evening pourout, so hopefully it makes sense for some <_>

I also think that their silence and lack of transparency is a huge problem in many cases. People tend to get more angry when they can't understand the 'why'.

What really doesn't make sense with the female hrothgar, is they even designed their heads to be more like the humanoid characters, so it's not like they've got some weird custom head that couldn't easily be adapted to the headgear.?

"Let those ears run free." - John Square Enix, 2019

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

They have given up giving excuses and are just staying silent.

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Doesn't matter when the playerbase will come up with excuses for them like right under your post LOL

Well it's a mystery...

However, we can still wear the best glams: dyeable eyeglasses

Also, flower ribbons, tiaras, masks, small top hats, horns, Fall guys hats, some full hoods, and flower crowns

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

What really doesn't make sense with the female hrothgar, is they even designed their heads to be more like the humanoid characters, so it's not like they've got some weird custom head that couldn't easily be adapted to the headgear.?

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If you create a new character and select face 3 and 4 from the female hrothgar while comparing them from the side, there are noticeable changes on their form at the face. And that has to be adjusted individually.

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Originally Posted by Fagotura

Doesn't matter when the playerbase will come up with excuses for them like right under your post LOL

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I am giving this 'one modder can do what a whole company cannot' talk a careful reminder:

Sure, they can make hair work for every race and fix hats. But do they work with nearly every combination of headgear/hair/chest armor combo and have been adjusted for it?
The fancy HD modded hairs are always a fun thing : They likely won't work with many armor pieces at all. And if you decide to hit up Limsa and have half of their denizens with the same piece, your PC would likely buckle under the load even if you got a decent rig. Or crash outright.

So (for me) it's likely that the spaghetti code and trying to preserve the bottom line of players that scrape on the minimal spec requirement is what the reasons are.
All of which that can be possibly overcome with enough work on their code and fitting. Whenever that is deemed to be worth a resource investment for SE.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

I am giving this 'one modder can do what a whole company cannot' talk a careful reminder:

Sure, they can make hair work for every race and fix hats. But do they work with nearly every combination of headgear/hair/chest armor combo and have been adjusted for it?
The fancy HD modded hairs are always a fun thing : They likely won't work with many armor pieces at all. And if you decide to hit up Limsa and have half of their denizens with the same piece, your PC would likely buckle under the load even if you got a decent rig. Or crash outright.

So (for me) it's likely that the spaghetti code and trying to preserve the bottom line of players that scrape on the minimal spec requirement is what the reasons are.
All of which that can be possibly overcome with enough work on their code and fitting. Whenever that is deemed to be worth a resource investment for SE.

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What are you talking about, the base game assets already clip like crazy on anything outside of hyur and elezen

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Sure, they can make hair work for every race and fix hats. But do they work with nearly every combination of headgear/hair/chest armor combo and have been adjusted for it? .

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Yes, modders are quite passionate about their work, or you just leave a bit of space so all faces fit inside the helmet, it is not that complicated.

For the hair problem there are two easy solutions:
Change the hairstlye with the hat (some hats already hide parts of the hair when worn)
Or just let the hair clip through, if the player doesnt like the clipping , he can always change the hairstyle to work with the hat.

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Originally Posted by AshtonCrowe

I'm failing to see why even new additions cannot be worn by them, Mi'qote has existed for years (since the start) and they can wear anything.

Au'ra which have horns can wear just about anything

But bunny ears? TOO FAR!

Fuzzy mane? TOO FAAAAAAAAR!

It's bad enough all the Hyur beards are pencil'd on but telling me you can't wear a hat cause it'd conflict with ears or a mane is a joke.

I want to play a Viera but i also do not want to be restricted purely to masks and earrings.

Why even introduce a race if you're going to restrict them like that? That point you might aswell just give them a replacement for headgear unique to the class like capes, hoods, or allow them to permanently wear fashion accessories in combat included.

If you can fit any set to work on a lalafell you don't got an excuse why hats don't work on bunnies.

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The excuse is, "it's too hard." Even though a modder can do it in a single night, probably in only a couple of hours.

Never forget that "it would be very difficult" is a polite "no" in Japanese culture.