Introduce a Second Combo to DRK and change the animation of some abilities

Hi,

i got this idea (check title) while i watched the video of removed DRK abilities with teary eyes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXMTLM19JZw), why not reutilize some of the old DRK removed skills and reintroduce them, here are my thoughts:

Attack Combos:

for Single Target:

.Combo 1: Soul Eater Combo
Same as the one we have now, but Syphon strike restores more MP, and Soul eater grants a buff that restores minor amount of HP with every attack

.Combo 2: Power Slash Combo
HW Scourge -> HW Delirium -> Power slash
pure high Damage combo, where each attack reduces Darkside Timer by 5 seconds, and if Darkside is not active then each attack consumes 3% of remaining HP.

For Aoe:

Combo 1: Stalwart Soul
same as the one we have, but restores more MP.

Combo 2: Tar Pit
Unleash -> Tar Pit
High damage combo, consumes Darkside, if DS is depleted then consumes HP.


also:

. Re-add Blood Price: consumes a small percentage of HP and restore a large portion of MP.

. Re-add Soul survivor: let it be the single target equivalent to Abyssal Drain, and let Carve and Spit be its own attack on 30 Sec which restores MP.

. Change Delirium's ability Animation: replace it with (HW Darkside) animation.

. Change Shadow Bringer's ability Animation: Replace it with Dark Passenger animation.

. Remove Flood of Shadow: let Edge of shadow be an aoe attack on target, similar to PLD's Expiacion.


let me know what you think guys.

Introduce a second combo on most tanks would be a step of the right direction.

It’s hard to believe that spending health for damage would be an option nowadays for PvE. It feels like the devs don’t want to allow us to troll our healers, even if 3% per GCD doesn’t sound like much. If it was a more significant amount that would ideally deter us from abusing it, it’s still something that’s someone else’s problem to deal with rather than our own problem. Maybe someone who has been playing the game for a while can comment on how things were back when Dragoon had Blood for Blood?

I also wonder how the combos would work with the mana economy and the burst phases - would it we be worth it to use Edge to get more Darkside to do another Power Slash combo at the expense of not having that Edge be during buffs? If so, would there be any point to putting Edge in buffs unless we really have “extra” ones? It might be something interesting to think about during the filler phase, at the expense of having less button pressing in the burst windows.

I’d definitely generally appreciate more happening in the filler phase than just the 1 2 3 and Bloodspiller, so a second combo or a branching combo would be nice if it works out.

I agree but adjustments would be needed to the MP economy.
As it stands DRK is VERY reliant on Siphon Strike for MP, and DT MP nerfs have already made the MP timing on this incredibly tight. I don't think Sole Survivor or Blood price would make up the difference.

In my pinion, the 2 combos conflict with one another. On the one hand, you have the combo that produces all resources and the other is just damage, with no resource gain.

So the first question is, where should the potency lie for the Power Slash combo in relation to the Souleater combo? It isn't just a case of making it stronger, as the Souleater combo provides MP and Blood for Darkside and more importantly, Bloodspiller.

We also run into issues with the Darkside timer itself. Just looking at Souleater and the natural regen, they give enough MP for 1 Edge every 37.5 seconds and 45 seconds respectively, it is these 2 in tandem that allow you to stay MP positive and allow you to use Edge/Flood to keep the timer going, add in a combo that reduces the timer by 15 seconds each time, I guarantee you end up with issues keeping it active. I know you have said allow Syphon Strike to give back more MP, but without knowing how much, it is going to be hard to judge.

Then there is the case of the added effect to Souleater, how much healing is 'a minor amount'. I've said it many many times in the past, but trying to balance HP restoration on a tank is incredibly difficult, it is one of the main complaints that healers have in how their role feels useless. But it almost seems like it was meant to counter the HP cost of the Power Slash combo/Blood Price. So, how much were you envisioning?

Although, talking of HP cost, that is a minefield. It is either going to be a fixed cost, which means it gets relatively cheaper as you gear up, or, it is a % of your HP, which makes it harder to heal you from a lower geared healer (remembering it has to be viable in all content with a variety of healers with a variety of skill/gear levels). We can say the HP absorb from Souleater would counteract that, but then wouldn't that make the HP regen really strong, to the point that healers feel worthless?

So, the 2 combos seem to conflict with each other, rather than complement each other, the MP issue and Darkside timer are concerns and a worry over HP restoration being too strong. It just seems like you wanted to add a combo to the game, but not really thought about how to properly implement it, so you end up with a mess of ideas that don't necessarily work together.

honestly they could outright replace the existing combo and I would not mourn it for a single moment, it's always looked terrible to me...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

Introduce a second combo on most tanks would be a step of the right direction.

---

healers getting a combo at all would be nice too XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

healers getting a combo at all would be nice too XD

---

No healers do not need a combo.

Look at casters they don't have combo gameplay, what could healers have, procs, high mp costing spells that make you manage your mp and to actually heal, I'm in favour of adding more damage buttons to healers but combos would be very weird on them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

No healers do not need a combo.

Look at casters they don't have combo gameplay, what could healers have, procs, high mp costing spells that make you manage your mp and to actually heal, I'm in favour of adding more damage buttons to healers but combos would be very weird on them.

---

Been wondering, by combo you mean 1-2-3 combos, right? Do you count having multiple dots as those as well?

Blah Blah blah homogenization blah blah blah, but I think it would be cool if DRK had an Atonement like combo like PLD. Just rework Carve, and Spit to be a three part GCD combo that procs off Souleater, and each GCD restores MP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mallleable

Blah Blah blah homogenization blah blah blah, but I think it would be cool if DRK had an Atonement like combo like PLD. Just rework Carve, and Spit to be a three part GCD combo that procs off Souleater, and each GCD restores MP.

---

that's just the Delirium combo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurarok

that's just the Delirium combo

---

It would be a third combo, and one that isn't just used every 60 seconds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mallleable

It would be a third combo, and one that isn't just used every 60 seconds.

---

Atonement "combo" is very boring.

Atonement made much more sense when we had DOT goring blade to break it up, back then because you didn't just 1, 2, 3 press atonements.

Tanks should be given more combo pathways and actions not just more auto combos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

Tanks should be given more combo pathways and actions not just more auto combos.

---

Honestly if the underlying system stays static (as in: You press a static optimized sequence of buttons) then it really could not matter any less.

Whether I press 1,2,3,4,4,4 or 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 1,2,3,4,4,4,5,6,7,7,8,9,9,1,2,1,3,2,1 isn't a big difference, in the end. It's going through a repetitive memorized motion either way.

Now if you mean "Multiple pathways without having a reliable way of knowing where to go", then I'm fully in. Say the 1,2,3 combo gives 1-3 atonement stacks, random how many, so it's anything from 1,2,3,4 to 1,2,3,4,4,4, and importantly this means the main rotation varies from 4 GCDs to 6 GCDs with 0 reliability, could be 4 GCDs for minutes on end! Add something like how each Atonement skill, on top of returning mana, reduces the CD on Imperator a little bit, decoupling the otherwise also strictly-matching CDs, and I'd be over the moon.

Tanks could really use minor randomness in their kits. Random Atonement amounts on Paladin. Random duration of Surging Tempest on Warrior. Stuff like that. It's minor in overall effect, but it precludes fully "Learning" your rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carighan

Honestly if the underlying system stays static (as in: You press a static optimized sequence of buttons) then it really could not matter any less.

Whether I press 1,2,3,4,4,4 or 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 1,2,3,4,4,4,5,6,7,7,8,9,9,1,2,1,3,2,1 isn't a big difference, in the end. It's going through a repetitive memorized motion either way.

Now if you mean "Multiple pathways without having a reliable way of knowing where to go", then I'm fully in. Say the 1,2,3 combo gives 1-3 atonement stacks, random how many, so it's anything from 1,2,3,4 to 1,2,3,4,4,4, and importantly this means the main rotation varies from 4 GCDs to 6 GCDs with 0 reliability, could be 4 GCDs for minutes on end! Add something like how each Atonement skill, on top of returning mana, reduces the CD on Imperator a little bit, decoupling the otherwise also strictly-matching CDs, and I'd be over the moon.

Tanks could really use minor randomness in their kits. Random Atonement amounts on Paladin. Random duration of Surging Tempest on Warrior. Stuff like that. It's minor in overall effect, but it precludes fully "Learning" your rotation.

---

I like randomness but I really don't think it would work well with atonements, randomness should also be a supplement to a already engaging rotation. Paladins current rotation should have more added to it (like other tanks) but we can have room for some RNG.

The type of randomness I'd like is something like a proc for shield bash to deal high extra (wouldn't break the combo) damage from each atonement and or a way to let blocks give you a small damage OGCD proc, that would be fun

Keep in mind that we should have some jobs that aren't RNG some that are more RNG, because it creates variety which is healthy rather then having our current system of simple tank rotations with no variety.

I mean seeing how we have 4 tanks right now, ideally one each would be of the four RPG-y gameplay design archetypes:

* Static rotation
* Proc-based
* Resource-based
* Dynamic branching

Notably usually none of these have no random elements, it's about how much they affect the core rotation. Your ideas would be for the "static rotation" class, because they happen without being meaningful to the main rotation. Which does not feel like an important distinction, but it kinda is. Only the first type ought to have a chance to have any reliable sequencing to what they do, in particular for their core gameplay. The other three kinds do not, respectively having to check which procs they got, how much resource (which is unstable) they generated and how this particular fight asks them to do what at which point.

At this point just bring back OG Dark Arts and the diverging combos