Quick Question about the new field operations?

Quick Question about the new field operations?
I just realised... they were always associated with relics and, that still meant 2 hit grinding fates in parties of 30, and queuing ARR alliances.

• That's going to end up mandatory again sn't it?

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

(You can already tell from my question I'm probably not doing that anymore. I already did a couple non-scaling 2 hit hunt farms and that was enough. Not without connections in game anymore. I'll try but... there is a lot of the same-old that is all I've been feeding and recently I can't bear it. Especially not as I'm not even interested in the relic now I'm not invested in my character and I only sub temporarily. Decide for yourselves if this is something that is going to apply to any other prospective returners. I'm just trying to (re)calibrate my likely intentions early.)

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

mandatory

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You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means.

Also, the patch hasn't dropped, why are you already back and fussing about unreleased content already?

Yes, given what's been done in the past, it's likely that the relic will, in some way, be tied into the new field operation which is a massive improvement already from the endwalker relics
and based on what we've seen with Bozja, it might not fully be tied into it either, so you might not need to commit to the field operation if that's not something you personally enjoy

All we can really do is wait and see
It genuinely seems like you're bored of the game and don't want to engage with any of the new content that's to be released, while simultaneously not enjoying what's already present

I really don't know what the developers can do to appease you, when iirc you yourself have said you wanted Eureka to be extreme level content
when a majority of complaints that I've seen are the lack of anything for casual players to do

Whether people enjoy it or not, the game's overworld content has, for the most part, been fate farming
You do it for the ARR relic, you do it for the HW relic, you do it for the SB relic, you do it for the ShB relic
That's obviously outside of any of the dungeons you had to do, or instances like CLL and DR

The only one that didn't require any of that was Endwalker, which, from what I've see, was mostly disliked

That isn't to say that it's good, and I'd say field operations are probably some of my favorite things to do in this game, but that it's more or less the same as we've had for a very long time now. I do think it'd be cool if they were to expand it more, and add more world bosses and other events, but the ones we have now typically die very quickly to hunt trains so that'd need to be reworked. I also wasn't around for it, but the defense aspect I've seen talked about, where certain villages could be attacked and you had to defend, seems cool. Branching paths for fates would also be a boon, I'd wager

they will probably link it yes but they will also give a none field way to do them

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

they will probably link it yes but they will also give a none field way to do them

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Most likely yeah
Even Bozja you could do fate farming in certain zones to get the memories you needed, but at a less likely rate than if you just did the southern front
I only hope they take a look at some of the steps and not make the same mistakes you can see with Bozja, because some of the steps require you to do the field operation up to a certain point which I think is clearing CLL

then there's the issue with DR and not too many people running it anymore

Relics have been worse than tomestone weapons up until the final patch of the expansion for around a decade, and CS3 only breaks trends when it lets them do less. They'll be "mandatory" for doing 7.X ultimates after 7.X and that's it.

Imagine if we didn't have to gouge our eyes out in tedious fate farming before being allowed to access the actually interesting content (CLL, Dalriada, etc).

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Quick Question about the new field operations?
I just realised... they were always associated with relics and, that still meant 2 hit grinding fates in parties of 30, and queuing ARR alliances.

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That has depended heavily on the expansion:

• ARR and Heavensward involved FATEs. I don't think I recall alliance raids?
• Stormblood did not involve FATEs or alliance raids, since it was all in Eureka (but technically, NMs use the same code as FATEs).
• Shadowbringers had a one-off FATE grind, I recall. The unlock quest for it required the Ivalice alliance raids to have been done. The rest could be done entirely within Bozja and Zadnor. But that involved Skirmishes, which are basically FATEs. You could do Alliance Raids as an alternative though, which most people preferred because, for reasons I do not understand, those players enjoyed Crystal Tower.
• Endwalker did not require any FATEs.

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I already did a couple non-scaling 2 hit hunt farms and that was enough.

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Hunts are not the same as FATEs. There is a level sync on FATEs. There is not, however, an item level sync, which means that the FATEs in the final areas will sync to the max item level of that expansion, causing them to melt. Blue Mages can sometimes melt them as well, although this is regarded a griefing by most reasonable players when a lot of people are farming them.

If people are griefing you can just travel to another world or data center anyway, or wait until the hype dies down after a few days or weeks.

To answer your question, they intend to give you the option to progress the relic either within the relic area or by doing old content, from my understanding. They will most likely try something similar to the Shadowbringers model, hopefully with lessons learned (my hope is it will be more efficient to do it within the relic area).

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Originally Posted by CVXIV

Yes, given what's been done in the past, it's likely that the relic will, in some way, be tied into the new field operation which is a massive improvement already from the endwalker relics
and based on what we've seen with Bozja, it might not fully you wanted Eureka to be extreme level content
when a majority of complaints that I've seen are the lack of anything for casual players to do

long time now. I do think it'd be cool if they were to expand it more, and add more world bosses and other events, but the ones we have now typically die very quickly to hunt trains so that'd need to be reworked. I also wasn't around for it, but the defense aspect I've seen talked about, where certain villages could be attacked and you had to defend, seems cool. Branching paths for fates would also be a boon, I'd wager

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I haven't read all this but frankly I agree with the what can they do. This is starting to feel a lot like grudge. I can't pretend it's not a chip on my shoulder.
I just don't want to imagine it's A, when A is unrealistic then then be even more fed up when I know I can't get a refund on my sub. I agree. I'm trying to keep an open mind.
But am I?
I didn't look like that to me either.
I'm trying to avoid disappointment.

Back when I had loads of people I knew this would have been fun.
But now I'm back in struggling to rebuild that as... Everyone is doing Savage, or got other goals... limited and built around the next savage.
Even if I try savage it won't be with them they've got their statics and I couldn't commit anyway.
And I tried M1 and maybe it's just because I felt behind the curve, but.. I'm not sure I just don't enjoy the style of high end fights. I'm not a fan of following the patterns I can't work out or just following other people. I disliked Ex's unity I find it I could blind it. That's not going to wash in savage PF.
And there casual stuff they do do , I'm bored of it, and again the reasons and the rest is fine is not the same.
I've been an asshole about high end players that is just stupidly prejudiced. When it's just some that have been deliberately sociopathic in their "be like me get good or F off and unsub" attitude.
I've got a lot of time for the high end trolls. They are just trolls.
Well some time.
The ones that mean it, and many do, they',ve not been saying it just to me.

Oh I should add in trying to PF prog Chaotic. So you can't imagine how much time I have to make friends and join in with other stuff. The FC ran screaming from trying to organise anything to do with that. But my patience for joining what other people do ec want to do is exhausted. I enjoy helping. But I'm no 'help' to a bunch of savage raiders.

Oh and watching YouTubers didn't help. It's mostly just the ultimate raiders now, and again they don't display much empathy. Condescending and arrogant seems to be a requirement to upload.
Some of the attitude towards mentor roulette is mind boggling.
If if seen seen some of those vids when I first came to Expert roul as a shock, and I was trying to help others too... I'm really not sure if I'd have been able to keep going back.

Cider Spider is cool though! Making a game of it and having fun. A passing option no more. Observational/situational humour, no more.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

I haven't read all this but frankly I agree with the what can they do. This is starting to feel a lot like grudge. I can't pretend it's not a chip on my shoulder.
I just don't want to imagine it's A, when A is unrealistic then then be even more fed up when I know I can't get a refund on my sub. I agree. I'm trying to keep an open mind.
But am I?
I didn't look like that to me either.
I'm trying to avoid disappointment.

Back when I had loads of people I knew this would have been fun.
But now I'm back in struggling to rebuild that as... Everyone is doing Savage, or got other goals... limited and built around the next savage.
Even if I try savage it won't be with them they've got their statics and I couldn't commit anyway.
And I tried M1 and maybe it's just because I felt behind the curve, but.. I'm not sure I just don't enjoy the style of high end fights. I'm not a fan of following the patterns I can't work out or just following other people. I disliked Ex's unity I find it I could blind it. That's not going to wash in savage PF.
And there casual stuff they do do , I'm bored of it, and again the reasons and the rest is fine is not the same.
I've been an asshole about high end players that is just stupidly prejudiced. When it's just some that have been deliberately sociopathic in their "be like me get good or F off and unsub" attitude.
I've got a lot of time for the high end trolls. They are just trolls.
Well some time.
The ones that mean it, and many do, they',ve not been saying it just to me.

Oh I should add in trying to PF prog Chaotic. So you can't imagine how much time I have to make friends and join in with other stuff. The FC ran screaming from trying to organise anything to do with that. But my patience for joining what other people do ec want to do is exhausted. I enjoy helping. But I'm no 'help' to a bunch of savage raiders.

Oh and watching YouTubers didn't help. It's mostly just the ultimate raiders now, and again they don't display much empathy. Condescending and arrogant seems to be a requirement to upload.
Some of the attitude towards mentor roulette is mind boggling.
If if seen seen some of those vids when I first came to Expert roul as a shock, and I was trying to help others too... I'm really not sure if I'd have been able to keep going back.

Cider Spider is cool though! Making a game of it and having fun. A passing option no more. Observational/situational humour, no more.

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Things are a lot more fun once you stop caring what other people think. The constant negativity will only bring you down and suck your enjoyment out of it

Once the new field operation drops, there will likely be plenty of people you can meet and do that content with should you so desire
All it takes is a little bit of effort, and in a lot of scenarios you'll be picked up just by showing up to the boss fate so people can boost their numbers, if you don't outright ask to join, that is

as for struggling with any patterns
It really just takes practice and that's all there is to it
The way fights play out are very mechanical, and always play the exact same way
So if you want to improve you just need to run the fight enough times and you'll know what the boss is doing before it even does it
I know some people dislike it, and I do agree it would be fun to have a degree of randomness to a boss's attack patterns, but as things stand now that's how you get better at the game

Not a whole lot of people will care if you die, and those who do you can just ignore if they're being jerks about it

To give an example I'll use E12N
The boss always starts with lightning and water, then alternates roughly 4 times before switching to fire and wind
After that comes the transition phase, then after that the fight continues as normal
The boss will stock fire, lightning, wind, and water and the combinations will be somewhat random, but the way you dodge it is always the same, so you can see where to go once you see the color of the tethers
After a bit of that the boss then uses ice or earth which are always raid wides and have their own mechanics to resolve for them specifically

That's just a very rough idea off the top of my head, but you'll see as you do them more and more the fights are more scripted than you'd realize
the only major factor that changes how things go is whether your team knows them or not and if they survive

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Originally Posted by Valence

Imagine if we didn't have to gouge our eyes out in tedious fate farming before being allowed to access the actually interesting content (CLL, Dalriada, etc).

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Good news for you, then - they already announced las LL that the new Field-Operation Raid like Dalriada/CLL will be accessible right from the get-go.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Good news for you, then - they already announced las LL that the new Field-Operation Raid like Dalriada/CLL will be accessible right from the get-go.

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I think that meant "not having to wait for a future patch", not "you can enter it from the beginning". It's probably gonna be exactly like Bozja/Zadnor. Question is : will the be like CLL/Dalriada, or like DR.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Good news for you, then - they already announced las LL that the new Field-Operation Raid like Dalriada/CLL will be accessible right from the get-go.

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Well i'd be curious to see how it would work either way, because where is the progression then? Unless those operations are supposed to be the progression, or an alternative path to fate grinding for progress?

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

I think that meant "not having to wait for a future patch", not "you can enter it from the beginning". It's probably gonna be exactly like Bozja/Zadnor.

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Most likely..

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

Question is : will the be like CLL/Dalriada, or like DR.

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I hope it's not like DR, the literal embodiment of bodychecks or DDR checks over actual battle systems and a series of trial bosses in a circle arena...
Crossing fingers for CLL/Dalriada.

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Originally Posted by CVXIV

Most likely yeah
Even Bozja you could do fate farming in certain zones to get the memories you needed, but at a less likely rate than if you just did the southern front
I only hope they take a look at some of the steps and not make the same mistakes you can see with Bozja, because some of the steps require you to do the field operation up to a certain point which I think is clearing CLL

then there's the issue with DR and not too many people running it anymore

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the fastest was the fates like main relic quest where always faster outside the field operation and sin el now it is well not exactly alive but not dead it is easy to do the put of the zone side. unless you are grinding in it then its two bird with one stone.

fate are 100% drops for memories I think the artifact is 3 for a dr and one for potd the higher the floor the most chance you have to get one like honestly varies just wish they don't do like stormblood.

it was all eureka point no other option

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

the fastest was the fates like main relic quest where always faster outside the field operation and sin el now it is well not exactly alive but not dead it is easy to do the put of the zone side. unless you are grinding in it then its two bird with one stone.

fate are 100% drops for memories I think the artifact is 3 for a dr and one for potd the higher the floor the most chance you have to get one like honestly varies just wish they don't do like stormblood.

it was all eureka point no other option

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I think they learned from what happened with Eureka and that's why they made the ones in Bozja work the way they did. From what I remember you still had to do it until rank 10 or so, and clearing CLL but after that you were done. I don't recall if you ever had to do DR once or not for the story but I know those drops from the relic can also be obtained from PotD

So it might work similarly to that

I just saw Cider Spiders vid. Oh my word what the frick did I too to upset him so much? Sure I've been an over generalizing dick about high end players, but he didn't seem to mention that. He seems to be pissed that after I started talking about unsubbing back at Xmas (not a year ago), and did, that I than came back again for just one month (I've been unsubbed two weeks again now so I'm expecting this forum access to lock out any minute/day now).
I'm not the only person unhappy with the game who's still wanted to give it a chance. (question that the problem is me an not the game)
Still not really complaining I know I've been a bit unfiltered emotional at times here, and this is a read public forum.
"Dear diary" yeah that's fair.
I would say I could have worded my question in this post here a bit better. Which is that I just don't want to have to do Fates in La Noscea, or farm ARR alliances, not that its tied to relics thats not a problem. (relics are just irrelevant to me now)
But I got my answer which is... "probably not 'mandatory'. There will be alternatives".
I hope so.
(If Cider allows me to come back that is :"3 uwu)
I hope my other posts weren't skipped just because he didn't have time for my shit rather than it didn't fit the picture he painted of me.
...
What the frick is a goober? (no circular references please)
Nah I'm not trolling. Not this time, I only troll the trolls, and they know it so that's ok, or it aught to be.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

I just saw Cider Spiders vid. Oh my word what the frick did I too to upset him so much? Sure I've been an over generalizing dick about high end players, but he didn't seem to mention that. He seems to be pissed that after I started talking about unsubbing back at Xmas (not a year ago), and did, that I than came back again for just one month (I've been unsubbed two weeks again now so I'm expecting this forum access to lock out any minute/day now).
I'm not the only person unhappy with the game who's still wanted to give it a chance. (question that the problem is me an not the game)
Still not really complaining I know I've been a bit unfiltered emotional at times here, and this is a read public forum.
"Dear diary" yeah that's fair.
I would say I could have worded my question in this post here a bit better. Which is that I just don't want to have to do Fates in La Noscea, or farm ARR alliances, not that its tied to relics thats not a problem. (relics are just irrelevant to me now)
But I got my answer which is... "probably not 'mandatory'. There will be alternatives".
I hope so.
(If Cider allows me to come back that is :"3 uwu)
I hope my other posts weren't skipped just because he didn't have time for my shit rather than it didn't fit the picture he painted of me.
...
What the frick is a goober? (no circular references please)
Nah I'm not trolling. Not this time, I only troll the trolls, and they know it so that's ok, or it aught to be.

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https://i.imgur.com/v19Ssba.png

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

I just saw Cider Spiders vid. Oh my word what the frick did I too to upset him so much? Sure I've been an over generalizing dick about high end players, but he didn't seem to mention that. He seems to be pissed that after I started talking about unsubbing back at Xmas (not a year ago), and did, that I than came back again for just one month (I've been unsubbed two weeks again now so I'm expecting this forum access to lock out any minute/day now).
I'm not the only person unhappy with the game who's still wanted to give it a chance. (question that the problem is me an not the game)
Still not really complaining I know I've been a bit unfiltered emotional at times here, and this is a read public forum.
"Dear diary" yeah that's fair.
I would say I could have worded my question in this post here a bit better. Which is that I just don't want to have to do Fates in La Noscea, or farm ARR alliances, not that its tied to relics thats not a problem. (relics are just irrelevant to me now)
But I got my answer which is... "probably not 'mandatory'. There will be alternatives".
I hope so.
(If Cider allows me to come back that is :"3 uwu)
I hope my other posts weren't skipped just because he didn't have time for my shit rather than it didn't fit the picture he painted of me.
...
What the frick is a goober? (no circular references please)
Nah I'm not trolling. Not this time, I only troll the trolls, and they know it so that's ok, or it aught to be.

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I hope CiderSpider sees this and makes another reaction vid.

I don't think he hates you lmao. He just thinks you're a bit silly.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

I just saw Cider Spiders vid. Oh my word what the frick did I too to upset him so much? Sure I've been an over generalizing dick about high end players, but he didn't seem to mention that. He seems to be pissed that after I started talking about unsubbing back at Xmas (not a year ago), and did, that I than came back again for just one month (I've been unsubbed two weeks again now so I'm expecting this forum access to lock out any minute/day now).
I'm not the only person unhappy with the game who's still wanted to give it a chance. (question that the problem is me an not the game)
Still not really complaining I know I've been a bit unfiltered emotional at times here, and this is a read public forum.
"Dear diary" yeah that's fair.
I would say I could have worded my question in this post here a bit better. Which is that I just don't want to have to do Fates in La Noscea, or farm ARR alliances, not that its tied to relics thats not a problem. (relics are just irrelevant to me now)
But I got my answer which is... "probably not 'mandatory'. There will be alternatives".
I hope so.
(If Cider allows me to come back that is :"3 uwu)
I hope my other posts weren't skipped just because he didn't have time for my shit rather than it didn't fit the picture he painted of me.
...
What the frick is a goober? (no circular references please)
Nah I'm not trolling. Not this time, I only troll the trolls, and they know it so that's ok, or it aught to be.

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It ain't that deep LOL.

He read a few of your thread(s), found some of the posts a bit silly, commented and moved on to the next thread, and then commented on the next thread.

Isn't deep at all. Content creators don't read the forums properly or understand them like those of us posting here regularly. They are just finding some content to make a video about because they are, well, content creators.

When you post here you're publishing and that makes the content of your post open to reactions like how they react to news articles. No point taking it personally since they don't really understand you, they're just fishing for things to make content about as I said.

Content creators are never actually upset, by the way. They are channeling glints of emotion and overhyping them, because doing this is more entertaining. Being entertaining is their job. I'm sure they'd be super chill if you met them off camera.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Isn't deep at all. Content creators don't read the forums properly or understand them like those of us posting here regularly. They are just finding some content to make a video about because they are, well, content creators.

When you post here you're publishing and that makes the content of your post open to reactions like how they react to news articles. No point taking it personally since they don't really understand you, they're just fishing for things to make content about as I said.

Content creators are never actually upset, by the way. They are channeling glints of emotion and overhyping them, because doing this is more entertaining. Being entertaining is their job. I'm sure they'd be super chill if you met them off camera.

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so true words of a master here

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

...snip
When you post here you're publishing and that makes the content of your post open to reactions like how they react to news articles. No point taking it personally since they don't really understand you, they're just fishing for things to make content about as I said....

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Oh yeh for sure. Don't post on a public forum like I did then get ass ache over it.
Try not to be salty, show vulnerability, then be surprised if there are people who can't resist attacking a soft target (not a dig at Cider who's just 'reacting', or at least I'm happier trusting thats the case.)
That said for me if you are able to delete a comment then personally 'only', exported comments should be anonymised but... meh, like I say don't post in a public read forum.
Id call that just laziness. I'll give benefit of the doubt its that and its not to 'influence' with some agenda, because that would be an abuse in my book. (I don't give a F about anyone else's book on that last matter)

(I just don't get it though. He definitely found something really irritating. I was surprised. And found it kind of funny enough chat about, like with your take Jeequbit)

I am a bit more pissed now though...
Because comments here and in the video (to a lesser extent, because it just failed to understand my badly worded OP) did make me feel 'wrong' to have my opinion. (Its just an opinion it should go without saying, it should almost be impossible for an 'opinion' to be wrong, it reserves the option to change, it should self acknowledge one might be wrong.)
But this (Zeplas vid) made me realise I wasn't completely 'wrong', and now I was pissed again, because I had already subconsciously devalued my own opinion and hadn't realised. WTF.

https://youtu.be/UnY7PMsV8QI

(I can't lay claim to everything in Zeplas video, I'm not in her class of nuanced analysis or level of invested love for the game.)

I tried in my OP to forestall people thinking I was trolling, because I just wanted to know "am I going 'have' to do brain dead fate sprints in Uldah, am I going have to do ARR alliances?" because "I" don't want to pay for that, and I've been 'quietly' looking forward to the new field zone. I want to stop looking forward to it if thats going to be the case.
I'm allowed to say I've had enough disappointment. I've paid enough for my optimism and sunny disposition already. < irony alert! ;)
Or if I have to wait until after I've subbed to find that out... yeah I want my sub money back on the 29 days of sub I'm not going to use. Which isn't an option.

P.S. Blackmage has not been dubmed down because of casuals struggling through Arcadia while being carried or endlessly ressed. I wonder for who's benefit in what content BLMs have been dumbed down for?...... < full blown sarcasm alert!
For a couple of years now, BLMs have gotten my commendation by default just for 'trying' it, with XIVs endless position and resolve formula which is now the only gameplay pretty much.

...like I say I'm about to lose my right to reply, 2 week no login forum lockout be up any time now...

@ CVXIV ... nice! Yeah I've never been under the illusion XIVs attracting profoundly superior humans. It was XIV fostering the right behaviour, which they've been failing badly recently. 1,000 cuts. (another thread completely)

P.P.S. ... to really win players back is now going to cost SQX more than if they had just kept up investment in the first place.
That ought be obvious from all the feedback by now.
Tansmog style glamour.
Cross DC PF 'with' chat.
Dungeon shake up.
Housing XYZ coordinates.
Housing for All.
Housing not tied to sub.
Healing that means something! (good luck rebalancing to make the old content still be challenging and clearable)
Hair for all races that mods devs apparently have no trouble achieving (just do it how they do it even if its not the proper way)
Challenging content for midcore (we all do know what that means by now) and at the same volume as savage.
Rewards for that content.
Chat bubbles
Great script and effort in side quests.
Fully fleshed holiday events.
Release cadence in line with old 3month or whatever it was that predated me.
'netcode' fxies (if not already?)
craft gather QoL improvements for people not using mods.
And you probably going to have to drop it all within '1' expansion, becuase you are going to have to make a WoW level impact like dragon flight has. It got its shoot together and has just kept up slamming it home since like with 'housing!'

Nothing less than 80% of that will be greeted with anything but "meh, I'll keep playing this other game thanks."

...ohh and the MSQ is gonna have to rival ShB/EW.. good luck with that now! we've had our 'chill holiday in the sun'.

Its gonna cost more now. Is SQX gonna step up? Or pack it in and roll off into sunset.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

1234567890

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Are you really bumping it so that Cider Spider can react or something? Lmao

Just put it in his chat or something lol

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Originally Posted by Fagotura

Are you really bumping it so that Cider Spider can react or something? Lmao

Just put it in his chat or something lol

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nah... its because you have to enter 10 chars, and you can put a long post in only as an re-edit.

that and .... ehhh... I'm probably bored.
Like the cider vid did say, I'm definitely a case of "dear diary".
If anyone wants me to stop... get Yoshi to start spending more of our sub on our game to keep my busy in game, and I don't mean more 'press X' content. or content I have to scheduled into to my diary with 3 to 7 other people around their grandma's gerbil's funeral. (I do enough scheduling 9-5.)

You're free to have your own opinions, and you're not wrong for asking questions like this
but given the track record of the game and how they have handled this type of content in the past, it's not very surprising what they are going to do with these new weapons

In a previous thread you had talked about wanting Eureka to be harder, to be extreme-level difficulty
So if you have done Eureka, then you should be familiar with how field operations work to begin with

It's like asking a rhetorical question just to complain and say you're not going to participate in the new content that's coming