Future of Chaotics: Cloud a little too hard?

This forum post is about the future of Chaotic Alliance. Please consider how you'd like Chaotic Alliances in the future.

Now for the record, I've beaten Chaotic enough times to get two sets of gear, but nowhere near enough for the mount I want.

However, I realize that Party Finder and even Discords seem to burnout a little too quickly.

I could keep going because I know the strats, but I'm quite frankly burned out from party finder and Discord groups getting tired of the content. It's fun content, and I enjoyed beating it several times, but I think it should be content that's closer to Savage 1 instead of Savage 2/3.

I think the problem is that there's 24 people, and little room for error. You get about 3-4 people who claim they know the battle and they're dead half of the time.

What do you think? Would the content be more fun if it was a little bit easier?

Easier? Maybe.

However, I think the biggest issue are the strict body checks. It's far too easy to see the fight spiral out of control because one or two people are dead or are standing in the wrong spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espon

Easier? Maybe.

However, I think the biggest issue are the strict body checks. It's far too easy to see the fight spiral out of control because one or two people are dead or are standing in the wrong spot.

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this.

the difficulty is fine, but failing mechanics is too punishing for a 24 man raid, 1-2 dead people shouldnt wipe everyone because of a failed tower stack.

I did 60 PF attempts before giving up. Saw the swaps phase a few times. Prior to this I had done some savage raiding during ShB in a guild, clearing a few bosses but never a whole tier while current.

The main issue is the bodychecks. FF14 mechanics are usually binary, you do them right you live, if not you die. Also botching mechanics in FF14 can get other people clipped by an AoE or killed by lasers, etc. When combined with the bodychecks, any player can cause a doom spiral leading to a wipe, and with a 24 man raid that will happen every single attempt.

It is not like pugging raids in WoW where people can botch mechanics (cleared every Dragonflight raid in a normal PUG when it was current and cleared a few heroic Amirdrassil bosses before unsubbing), but that's okay because only you take some damage and that can be healed. The most difficult mechanics can be assigned to the few most talented players, everyone else does not have the potential to cause a wipe. This allows higher skilled players to not feel they are being "held back" by other players. The fight is about endurance/managing a declining situation and persevering to victory.

Unlike FF14 where you are waiting for the one attempt where the stars align and everyone does everything right, but it doesn't so you see a lot of stress and strife until either people quit because they feel embarrased or quit because they feel others are holding them back even though they are human and make mistakes and wipe the group too sometimes.

As an aside, it is irksome for the devs to promise an extreme difficulty fight, but then to later say "whoops we made it savage difficulty".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

I did 60 PF attempts before giving up. Saw the swaps phase a few times. Prior to this I had done some savage raiding during ShB in a guild, clearing a few bosses but never a whole tier while current.

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That sounds like a "you" problem then, not clearing after 60 tries is a bit ridiculous, the fight is not that difficult.
Body checks in harder content are not unusual, you even have that in some Extreme fights here and there.

there are a lot of helpful makros you can use to make this fight easier,
for example, i used a makro to remember myself if it was backwards or forwards on the hands because i have bad memory for this stuff.

/e Forward!
and
/e Backward!

i also made a makro that tells the raid to look away for the gazes, after using these a lot less mistakes happened.


this is the gaze macro i used
/micon Moder
/a GAZE! LOOK AWAY <se.1> (next in 25)
<wait.25>
/a GAZE! LOOK AWAY <se.1> (next in 60)
<wait.58>
/a GAZE! LOOK AWAY <se.1>

only works for the first gaze debuff, the second one has different durations, you use it when you got the first gaze debuff, and it will alert everyone when it is about to run out, dont use any other macro in between or it will cancel the sequence

Body checks not being unusual is a good thing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arohk

this.

the difficulty is fine, but failing mechanics is too punishing for a 24 man raid, 1-2 dead people shouldnt wipe everyone because of a failed tower stack.

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I agree with this. It should be more forgiving.

I also find that people that are doing inner panels versus outer adds can be frustrating if the swap isn't done correctly, and there are alternate strats to follow if the swap fails to go as intended.

I feel like there's just a couple hurdles holding back the current Chaotic we have and I feel like overall difficulty of it was fine but it would have been better if:

• Towers should explode with less damage on the raid if failed. 2 missed towers shouldn't be almost a guaranteed wipe when there's this many opportunities for failure. Tune it down to allow 1 or 2 extra missed towers.
• Allow players to jump when on tiles phase. I don't know how much this would change the fight. But I am a bit curious.
• The spread version of the random mechanic (where the other random pick is stack line AoEs-wild charge) should only fire the amount of AoEs as there are players alive. This is one of the body checks that they should have not had imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arohk

That sounds like a "you" problem then, not clearing after 60 tries is a bit ridiculous, the fight is not that difficult.
Body checks in harder content are not unusual, you even have that in some Extreme fights here and there.

there are a lot of helpful makros you can use to make this fight easier,
for example, i used a makro to remember myself if it was backwards or forwards on the hands because i have bad memory for this stuff.

/e Forward!
and
/e Backward!

i also made a makro that tells the raid to look away for the gazes, after using these a lot less mistakes happened.


this is the gaze macro i used
/micon Moder
/a GAZE! LOOK AWAY <se.1> (next in 25)
<wait.25>
/a GAZE! LOOK AWAY <se.1> (next in 60)
<wait.58>
/a GAZE! LOOK AWAY <se.1>

only works for the first gaze debuff, the second one has different durations, you use it when you got the first gaze debuff, and it will alert everyone when it is about to run out, dont use any other macro in between or it will cancel the sequence

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Lol thats like telling an ultimate raider u didn't clear in 20 pulls thats a you problem. XD funny tho but not everyone gets lucky or has a streamer buddy that can pull in clears. Hell as my first time doing current savage. XD im still trying to get this done but not ss easy for me like it is others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Lol thats like telling an ultimate raider u didn't clear in 20 pulls thats a you problem.

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Ultimate is on a whole different level than chaotic raids, chaotics doesnt have complicate mechanics, the difficulty comes from the amount of players and in Cloud of darkness' case, the layout of the arena makes it hard t recover deaths.

It took me three evenings to clear this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Lol thats like telling an ultimate raider u didn't clear in 20 pulls thats a you problem. XD funny tho but not everyone gets lucky or has a streamer buddy that can pull in clears. Hell as my first time doing current savage. XD im still trying to get this done but not ss easy for me like it is others.

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You can always tell when someone has a level headed response when they over exaggerate a comparison between 60 Chaotic raid pulls and 20 ultimate pulls and say anyone having an easier time is due to the fact they have streamer friends.

The second someone mentions anything they dislike because of streamers I can't help but think everything they have to say is bullshit.