Quick note, this should NOT decrease the rate of progress- people should progress at the same pace (or perhaps faster is fine). Also this IS NOT trying to make all content ultimate / savage. To be clear, I am a casual player (in the sense that I want to queue in DF and win, I do not have interest in queuing for content to watch one person destroy the run over and over). I want to be able to mentally calculate the progress I can make, and not feel like time is wasted. So this is not "please make dungeons feel like ultimate", read this more like maintaining the original vision (which I would put around "normal" difficulty on a scale, but as we know over time due to power creep all casual content becomes "very easy" / "insanely easy").
Also, imo, 'on topic' is whatever you want so long as it relates to balance, variety, and reward rates (so difficulty, etc). Doesn't need to be about the below idea, don't need to read the wall if you can't be bothered, but this is my suggestion to the topic!TL;DR: When NOT under the influence of Epic Echo. Power increases your rewards (the reward itself), but does not necessarily make the game easier (tank buster doesn't just 'tickle'). While before this power normally increased rewards by making the game easier / faster, now power will generally make the game more rewarding. This is done via a filter, where excess is used for new gameplay and reward mechanics. These rewards will be PERTINENT to you (like how the roulette ensures you to queue for old stuff), so you will not be drowning in only "double chest rewards from Satasha" when that is pointless to you.Therefore power still impacts stats, but the game adjusts the dungeon itself through general filters to still approximately be as intended. For example you deal 200 dps, but the dungeon expected 100 dps as MAX (differences due to your power creep), well the excess is turned (filtered) into a reward and is therefore STILL IMPORTANT.
Echo (power) earned from death will not count to the filter and therefore not to reward filters (so you're not rewarded for dying, but the game is helping you). The content is still going to reward you, just /not/ for the extra X% from echo (filter takes that into consideration). We don't want best runs to include on purpose deaths...
All might feel this in new content where the dungeon has mechanics you have to do, the healer has to heal, etc. But when the content gets old after a few patches, its easy, brain dead, and who cares about mechanics. This is hoping to address that, while not removing the reason to improve your gear / do better (as reward rates should not go down, honestly they should go up IF you are doing well).
Of course you can't not reward players for their progress, because that would just suck lol.
Here is the Core idea: Change the reward structure not to be a reward of (faster/easier) time but MORE rewards.
For example: ilvl 100 content, you're ilvl 200.
THEN (before suggestion): Its super easy, before it took 15 minutes now it takes 5 minutes (and its boring). Reward is you can complete 3 dungeons in the time it used to take 1 (so if you invested 15 minutes you'd get 3 dungeons of reward).
NOW (after suggestion): Its approximately 12 - 15 minutes still, you still have to acknowledge the content's mechanics (as if it were new), BUT the reward is STILL the same in time cost, if not better (for every 1 dungeon you effectively completed 3, the game took your growth and performance and granted more rewards).
Okay so you've done the base concept, but how can we express this over just nerfing stats through a filter and increasing rewards!?
In quick description the filter simply observes your output and adjusts things at the tail end, setting aside excess if needed (excess is used for new mechanics and rewards). Some caveats for useless excess, like overhealing or overkilling is not a reward (if you heal a full hp player, it shouldn't reward you).
I think the excitement from this can come from using both the intake ilvl but ALSO the excess being put into the filter to express certain changes to the content and rewards. So its not just "old design" but as you increase in power, as content gets older.. it gets revitalized with changes due to your 'power'.
As you become familiar, it becomes new!
Therefore we have---
New Challenges: This will change the content slightly depending on how the filter is being fed and potentially by initial ilvls, allowing more powerful players to experience variations to add to the content, these challenges will result in rewards. Not every variation will be launched every time, also if players wipe it'll take that into account (to ensure players are not being overwhelmed- the content wants you to win but with a challenge).
Examples (aka not requirements / all inclusive, thematic context is important, and they are only general suggested concepts for variations):
Boss mechanics:
- A boss tosses an energy ball that it if it hits the ground will cause room wide damage, but each catch increases the reward pool (if you stand on the AoE when the ball lands, it gets tossed into the air and you can't catch it again, it has to be someone else).
- When the Chimera begins to cast Rams / Dragon voice if you interrupt twice you can remove it from their skill pool and they enrage, jumping around (ignoring aggro sometimes), dealing more damage
- Break the Ogre's horn (x damage to front) causing them to start howling calling substantially more fire lobbing ogres to appear, creating a bullet hell
- Passives changes, like boss casting effects more often- especially on players who are contributing to the filter (targeting veteran performing players more often).
Meta changes:
- Poisonous space has a debuff added that begins a DoT after a certain amount of time not being healed, stacking, the debuff stacks on enemy attacks that can be removed by esuna or reduced by jumping or receiving a heal
- Totorak, monsters begin to spawn at the entrance and increase in rate / numbers over the duration of the dungeon and also when defeating bosses
- Goblin paratroopers drop down randomly, including in boss fights if doing well enough
Insane changes: For either events or rarely in very old content, especially if it determines everyone is veterans (no one is doing it for the story), changes that are just like "lol what??".
- Vampiric meta, lose health over time, gain health on attacks. You gain buff stacks as you attack that grant movement speed and skill/spell speed. Lose these when not attacking.
- Unending Horde, (trash) monsters revive every 15 to 120 seconds (each monster has it's own timer), each time they revive their defense is decreased by quite a bit and their damage slightly, they revive where they died and will follow you through the WHOLE dungeon (including into boss rooms).
Overkill filter stats mechanics: If you're doing INCREDIBLE, the game will provide ways to still accelerate the content, reaching that lower 12 like number but still keeping the fight more balanced than 5 minutes.
- Stagger: Like seen in other FF games or Diablo 4, after a certain threshold the boss can take additional damage for a short time
- Bleed: Excess over a certain amount will turn into a DoT
- Team effects: Occasionally allies will be highlighted and if you near them you can do a baby limit breaks, like FFXI combo system or other FF combo systems.
Personal (almost devil may cry):
- By performing certain actions, like dodging mechanics targeting you due to your over performance, you will also gain rewards and additional mechanics (occasionally / randomly). These will add to your reward at the end, IF the team reward is not already max. Some rewards can be items, like if you dodge all haymakers from a boss you get a haymaker emote. In this way you can be rewarded for try harding, specially if everyone else is holding you down (so the team reward might not be as good, but you deserved max- good on you!)
BE CAREFUL /NOT/ to add things that will probably make you play bad. Like "only use ice against ifrit" as a black mage.. Things that say you have to follow mechanics successfully is fine, just don't do stuff that is like "pull all the bosses as a damage dealer to earn this cool mount".. that causes the group to be annoyed lol.
Rewards:
Rewards must be pertinent, some players are max level joining Satasha "cool" if the content is a little bit more engaging thanks to the system but dropping some level 15 armor is not going to make their day and they would have wished they could have done the content in 5 minutes like before. Therefore rewards /MUST/ take this into account.
So some mechanics above could be active rewards, like if you catch the ball 10 times you immediately gain a toy (like WoW, permanent goof off objects) that lets you play this mini-game with other players in the open world, but at the end you get X / X% more tomes because of the effort. Rewards can be in the moment and at the end. Just having X% of filter over expectations will also increase rewards.
Some rewards can be local, like if a boss targets you because you're preforming well and you dodge those mechanics the game will log your % boost and compare it at the end, if your team % is under the max it will apply the personal % for you (if as a team you're at max, then you're at max).
These variations can be added over time too! Which is awesome because you could be doing Satasha for a year, and then SE adds two variants to the whole system and one specific to Satasha. Allowing experience to gently be nudged into not "same ol same ol". These can also come in form of events (like weekly), and also to a MORE controlled extent applied to current end game content (WoW has mutations, that would be an example- may help players farm primals that are still semi-new as the rewards increase and minor variations keep it fresher).
Once the content can be epic echo'd you can pick mutations, so you can challenge specific types of content in the way you find fun (I dont meant you use epic echo, I just mean at the point epic echo works you can also pick these mutations, and they will apply benefits if not in epic echo mode).
Additional potential from the system:
- Challenge Echo. A weaker version of echo that increases your defenses and damage, but attempts to bring you down into only slightly more powerful than the group that it was intended for (instead of massively). Particularly avoidable damage might deal a lot more damage than currently. So instead of doing a primal fight 20 times at a boring minute each to get an item, you do it 5 times at 4 minutes a pop and it's way more challenging and fun. (Challenge echo of course only applying where Epic Echo is approved, Epic Echo is higher chance of success / afk level fighting and good for those who want story mode / have some difficulty playing well for whatever reason).
- Echo that is applied by default would be ignored for the purpose of this system (like some savage content after X amount of months old just starts with it automatically).
- Hunts and important FATEs can use this system to reduce their spontaneous combustion.
- If you develop the system enough you can apply the inverse too (buffing players), so certain FATEs can be do able (like when you first start a FATE with less than X players all players gain a large defensive buff and after X seconds if still under X players gains a substantial offensive buff and reset timer on defensive).
- This system can be applied into helping sync player kits down (level 80 to level 20 content), as the filters can generally be applied.. but is not the main point of the post (and you still have to account for some other stats if you did that, which is why it's not the primary point of the post).
General benefits (tl;dr why):
The game stays challenging longer, at the designed challenge level. The game still can be self nerfed via Epic Echo or if you die (regular echo). The game has more variety and challenge, while rewarding you by the master variable of all (time). So you do not just have a bigger grind, you have a higher quality experience without additional time cost. Rather than absolutely murder, while wiping the cheeto dust off your keyboard, bored, ignoring all mechanics on repeat for 10 times, do it 3 exciting times and therefore in a more enjoyable way.
Yet, if you wanted to cheeto dust (epic echo) - you can. Ideally, imo, the slightly more challenging way should be better (but overall comparing the rate of growth we have currently VS after the system, I don't want it to be seen as a nerf to player progress). So if anything this might be "make the game harder, but make the game more rewarding for it".
It may also increase the importance of survive-ability stats, since damage is important (very still) but is not immediately tangible as getting your face melted by a tank buster. So, for example, tenacity suddenly adds a huge survive-ability buff because the filter is based on the idea of no tenacity.
Healers are not going to get boned by power creep as much too, which can help them feel important. Since run away defenses, damage, and healing power are far less run away now. Things will hit harder, spells will heal for less, more mechanics will be seen.
--
Anyway I just feel the game rewards you by making it less interesting, and I think-- why not reward me by keeping it fun but also more rewarding. So my investments create investments, without the loss of fun?
Thanks for reading :)
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01-27-2025, 09:16 AMShougunPower as a function of reward, and not of time. Variations + Challenge = Reward
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01-27-2025, 10:55 PMDoki
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01-27-2025, 11:18 PMShougunQuote:
Originally Posted by Doki
Yeah.. lol.
https://youtu.be/HEF2L7my0-c?si=ONEPsKWV9jO3_en5
https://media1.tenor.com/m/Pw5t4xdpX...-ring-buff.gif
But also:
Quote:
Also, imo, 'on topic' is whatever you want so long as it relates to balance, variety, and reward rates (so difficulty, etc). Doesn't need to be about the below idea, don't need to read the wall if you can't be bothered, but this is my suggestion to the topic!
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01-28-2025, 04:13 AMhydralus
This is like a kid going to Santa at the mall with a 50 item list of what they want not realizing that Santa's fake.
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01-28-2025, 04:33 AMbrinn12
Patch 7.2 is supposed to mark the beginning of battle content revamp, so that they can "rework" every job in 8.0. They'll probably just introduce one new RNG mechanic per Savage fight, where a few players might lose uptime for 5 seconds, and call it revolutionary.
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01-28-2025, 04:57 AMKranel_SanPlease look forward to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by brinn12
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01-28-2025, 05:12 AMShougunWhat?! He's fake????!Quote:
Originally Posted by hydralus
https://media1.tenor.com/m/o8k_uiIPA...cules-fire.gif
To be honest I do believe they still get feedback, just that some departments care more / less (homogenizing being one that has been ignored for a long time). I have posted walls before and then felt something akin to it entered the game later.
Hell they used to respond to some of them in the 1.0 era lol.
Fingers crossed for some interesting changes, hope jobs gain some class fantasy and unique elements that can make you love one job and think wistfully for another. "Ooh id love to play this job, but oooh damn that job is so good too". For the most part I don't feel that and don't normally care outside of visual theme.Quote:
Originally Posted by brinn12
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01-28-2025, 05:45 AMBurmecia
https://i.imgur.com/BcGK9JY.png
Anyway. I wouldn't be interested in any of this.
'Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication' and all that.
Not that new mechanics aren't interesting -- withing the frame if FFXIV.
Honestly I couldn't recognise FFXIV anymore if it became this.
And I wanna continue playing FFXIV. Not this new game op is pitching.
Well, guess op is actually suggesting some alternate mode(?? - ala uncynched) one would need to turn on by Duty Finer settings. -
01-28-2025, 05:56 AMShougunQuote:
Originally Posted by Burmecia
You couldn't recognize FFXIV if the dungeons remained, approximately, as challenging as they were originally designed for?
Also, it wouldn't be a mode to select (you can customize it later or ignore it entirely when epic echo is functional though), so this would be the default. The game would be (roughly*) maintaining it's challenge, but also increasing it's diversity and rewards for your efforts as you progress. *There is still a window of stats, it isn't strict min ilvl sync, but it is certainly much tighter than currently where max ilvl sync on content makes it hilariously easy (and therefore, imo part of many reasons why it becomes boring more easily).
So what I read here is, approximately, maintaining the challenge originally designed (while adjusting rewards and variations to respect your progress) would make the game unrecognizable, interesting thought..
Edit: I was going to phone reply Jeeqbit, but you put too much effort for me to feel I can do the same on my phone. So I saw it, and appreciate your involved response, and will reply later! -
01-28-2025, 07:24 AMJeeqbitI do agree with that so I prefer when rewards aren't RNG but more like get 50-99 of whatever currency.Quote:
I want to be able to mentally calculate the progress I can make
What reward? Even endgame gear is mostly useless once you've bought crafted gear or farmed weekly tomestones for several weeks into the 9 month cycle.Quote:
you deal 200 dps, but the dungeon expected 100 dps as MAX (differences due to your power creep), well the excess is turned (filtered) into a reward
They could just actually sync it properly. After all, they already sync previous-expansion content anyway - so it may as well be sync'd using Minimum Item Level and Silence Echo settings, like Leveling dungeons and Endsinger effectively are. It wouldn't prevent really good players doing above average damage and getting some sort of reward for it either.Quote:
when the content gets old after a few patches, its easy, brain dead, and who cares about mechanics.
Then the reward rates (like minion droprate) would just go up passively as your gear level improves, without much effort to attack better.Quote:
as reward rates should not go down, honestly they should go up IF you are doing well
There are reasons to do roulettes for old content already.Quote:
Of course you can't not reward players for their progress
- Experience = progression.
- Tomestones = gear progression.
This would be useful with how bored people get of Expert Roulette. And yet we have some efforts in this area with Variant dungeons, they are just hidden away in a User Interface that the majority of players are not going to use the majority of the time like they do with Expert Roulette.Quote:
New Challenges: This will change the content slightly depending on how the filter is being fed and potentially by initial ilvls, allowing more powerful players to experience variations to add to the content, these challenges will result in rewards. Not every variation will be launched every time
The interrupt idea is interesting but the problem is that mechanics are often designed to work together in a cohesive sequence and missing one of them can potentially ruin the whole "difficulty" of the fight in the first place. This same issue can make randomizing the mechanics a bit of a problem too, especially if there's only 4 mechanics.
In any case, they could have a vote at the start of the content to:- Add random gimmicks of some form, such as the regularly stacks debuffs that need Esuna or Counter Stance that counters all damage dealt back at the party (so you are effectively fighting yourselves).
- Remove telegraphs.
- Buff boss HP and damage output to threaten even tanks.
They do this sort of thing for Blue Mages so they could if they wanted to tbh. There are fresh weekly challenges for them as well as achievements for doing unique things.Quote:
So some mechanics above could be active rewards, like if you catch the ball 10 times you immediately gain a toy
The best way to handle this, in my opinion, is a status on the hunt that reduces all incoming damage by the level difference as a percentage, and increases all outgoing damage by the level difference as a percentage. This would avoid needing to click a "Level Sync" button entirely and prevent the issue of it only affecting a certain amount of players.Quote:
Hunts and important FATEs can use this system to reduce their spontaneous combustion.
Would be interesting if SE added nuances like that but it would need to go along with a more sophisticated power progression and strength/weakness system overall, which SE hasn't demonstrated being able to build successfully in recent years.Quote:
for example, tenacity suddenly adds a huge survive-ability buff
They haven't ignored it. They've even mentioned it in interviews how they are going to look at it in 8.0. But there have equally been voices asking for homogenization. When you say "my job doesn't have a gap closer, give me one", that's asking for homogenization. When you say "why can't DRK heal as much?" that's asking for homogenization. When you say "Sage can heal without losing DPS, why can't SCH?" that's asking for homogenization. And so on.Quote:
homogenizing being one that has been ignored for a long time
That already began with 7.0. They specifically said the Expert dungeons and 8-person raids were examples of this. I think it would be fair to include their other high-end duties in this as well. However, the first tier is always easier than the later ones so they do of course plan to go a lot further in 7.2.Quote:
Originally Posted by brinn12
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01-28-2025, 03:16 PMShougun
Thanks for entertaining my thoughts, hopefully the below can answer and address some of yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
I think RNG helps break up an easily precevied treadmill, but being, imo, one of the primary ones that at least on the English forum side pushed for the token-ization of FFXIV... totally agree. I was there... 3000 years ago.... and I definitely pushed strongly to fill FFXIV with safety nets.
Think there is either verification request to me, or a misunderstanding, as I can't fully tell. But yes. Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
I am aware of the general carrots that work, and yes those would be the carrots that would be needed. I alluded to in the OP but, for example certain activities would literally translate to more tomes at the end (or % reward increases).
There would be unique opportunities (random examples already given), but there would also be general applications of rewards. So for an exceptionally generic example, lets say a dungeon normally took 10 minutes (easy number) and this was worth 1 dungeon of exp (easy unit). As time goes on players gain more power and theoretically under an unbalanced system could finish the dungeon in 7 minutes, and then 5. Lets use 5 for easiness. In the old system the 5 minute dungeon is undoubtedly going to be 'ignore all mechanics, if there is a new person just drag them by their toes as they have no idea what the actual hell is going on'.
Instead of that, now approximately the dungeon took 8-10 minutes but reward 2 dungeons worth of experience. This is where we can discuss those more specific / intelligent rewards though, like to be cognizant of players in MSQ (as players often out pace MSQ accidentally), and could be checking their level to the MSQ and offering (perhaps via token) the opportunity to priortize cool items over way too much EXP for a new player doing MSQ.
I would like to see unique ideas too where possible though, or contextually intelligent like mentioned above, for example you referenced minions and maybe the game is like "oh, you don't have the tetra card". Make getting cards a bit more reliable (still some grind, but add some more hope in there ;)). Coins of fate that let you narrow down glamour opportunities, etc. There are many ways we can sweeten the pot, but we have to be pragmatic and know that (as OP said) giving a level 100 double aetherial level 15 gear is not going to be much of a 'deal'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
The problem with this is it destroys growth. I had thought of that but I think the OP system is better as it allows the game to accelerate without destroying it's balance. I think the acceleration is important, but by making it "fast and easy" as our current choice of acceleration I think it just makes it bland. SO this system maintains the challenge but ALSO maintains the acceleration that happens through power. If we do a tight sync, like min, then it isn't fast and easy anymore but you've lost acceleration (which I think is important for the game as those contents age), and also removes some of that progression vibes you get from getting better gear and playing better.
Also I like that the above system has combined 'doing better' with 'different things to see' and 'more rewards', and I imagine (paper ideas right now lol) that this would make a nice gameplay loop (especially if SE can occasionally poke it, so old content a year from now might surprise you).
So that is the key thing to keep in mind. We are not slowing the game down, we are not removing power acceleration- we are just changing how it works. In that way I think ultimately having just a tighter sync is not the solution I am trying to hit upon, as it misses the primary concept (sort of seeing the trees and missing the forest type situation).
We can easily make the game just slower (min ilvl sync!), but I am not asking that :).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
Yeah I just made some random examples and I don't think each example fits in all content. My example of Chimera was thinking specifically because I think it could fit, but you couldn't do that for all bosses cause as you said it would mess everything up. Definitely a thought I had, and I agree it must be considered.
Some ideas can be content wide, which is nice for dev time value, but a lot of ideas might be dungeon specific (like the goblin paratroopers was thinking of specific dungeons). Thanks for suggesting ideas too :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
/cry lol
I mean from my perspective I'm king of beating the horse of class fantasy (gameplay roleplay) and I feel they have been ignoring it for years (and have a lot of room to improve), but I know they said they will work on it now. Maybe they'll do great, I hope they will. I agree that some of the changes have ABSOLUTELY been asked by players, and that it was likely that feedback that lead them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
There are reasons why I still say SE reads feedback, there are many things I could associate to feedback. This feedback is one I think I'd say wasn't timely responded to / adjustments not consistently in the right direction though lol. As sometimes, I think, their solutions are far too eager to chop up the limited class fantasy / roleplay fantasy they have in order to meet excel metrics.
I can example one that I know I was part of which was Flash spam on Paladin, which I felt suuuuuucked lol, and they removed that! I was definitely one of the ones asking for that to go :P. Like usual I try to come up with ideas, so I think I came up with some sort of magic interactions, like you flashed and then you could attack flashed monsters for AoE enmity generating explosions, but when they made the more general change I didn't mind cause I hated spamming flash XD.
I can also see how some changes will cause issues for high end content... and I have never felt there was a beautiful solution for that except some sort of eternal hell for the balance team. Good luck on that thankless job. I care a lot about class fantasy though... and I am really hurting right now, and have been pointing at the walls saying "they're closing in!" / getting roleplay claustrophobia for a while : /. Genuinely hope they can find a good way to navigate that situation and I don't envy that tough position. I have my thoughts on how to go about it, but it is with problems (like I think most solutions are...). -
01-28-2025, 06:43 PMJeeqbitQuote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
Those would be alright since EXP and tomestones are easy to increase, and minions are virtually a 2% chance while cards can sometimes be that low as well, where you can take 50-100 runs to even see a drop.Quote:
contextually intelligent like mentioned above, for example you referenced minions and maybe the game is like "oh, you don't have the tetra card". Make getting cards a bit more reliable (still some grind, but add some more hope in there ;)). Coins of fate that let you narrow down glamour opportunities, etc.
Part of the issue is that SE rarely does intelligent systems that would "recognize when you don't have a reward and make that the one more likely to drop". If they even revisited old systems much, this sort of thing isn't even in their track record to do. It may be slightly complicated and ambitious, but it's probably a days' headache at most for a programmer to work through any issues with it.
I think the problem with all this, is that some players only value one thing in games: power. They do not value other rewards (such as mounts, minions, TT cards). Because most of the grinds in this game are for mounts, they feel there is no content in this game.Quote:
The problem with this is it destroys growth.
So if you make power result in more/faster mount/minion/TT card drops, you don't solve anything for the players that want more power progression, because they don't care about said rewards.
The only thing that seems to satisfy people who play for power progression, is gaining directly more power as a result of their playtime - such as gear, tomestones, augments, materia, Lost Actions, Logos Actions, pomanders, relic weapons, that sort of thing.
And in this case it's unlikely gear, tomestones, augments or materia would cut it when it's so quick and trivial to get it at max level within a matter of weeks after savage release for many players, and of course SE does not do most of the other things outside of special instances areas.
However, I can agree with simply "playing well" increasing rewards to motivate people to do that.
Maybe we just need to accept that old dungeons are for new players or for leveling our jobs and once we've done that, we should ignore them if we don't enjoy them. SE could harness them and make scaled up, more challenging versions of these dungeons with less telegraphs, and it would involve minimal effort for them to do it, they just don't seem smart enough to harness their old content for some reason. Same with their old raids: there are 61 old savage-level raids that are ignored by over 99% of savage raiders and 38 old extreme trials. Only the "MINE community" cares about them. SE could make a roulette that chooses one at random each day or each week and scale them up, like with PvP, but they don't.Quote:
I had thought of that but I think the OP system is better as it allows the game to accelerate without destroying it's balance.
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02-04-2025, 10:56 PMAlice_Rivers
I like the idea of keeping each fight's core mechanics intact but I'm not sure I like losing a hypothetical 50% of my damage output (even if it is for illustrative purposes only), this is why I advocate for lowering ilvl syncs down to where the content is balanced.
That said, I do think there is room for performance based loot drops, say if you do well then minions/mounts/music/cards get an increased drop rate. I did find the whole voting at the start of a duty thing entertaining but it'd never work, as soon as the novelty value wears off it'll become a chore and nobody wants chores in their MMO. -
02-05-2025, 12:40 AMShougunQuote:
Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers
Definitely understand being told some of the damage is going to be thrown to the loot pinatas instead feels rather unusual, but let's frame it in your example- if you say a sync that lowers your damage or a filter that lowers it to the same value.. does that functionally mean anything different to you? If not you can definitely think of it in that way.
The primary difference between a tight sync and a filter and reward system (including good play) is that the filter is meant to scale over time (non linearly). So your power level is respected to an extent for longer, and will apply a more clear relationship to power and acceleration that we have (without loss of challenge). In the strict sync you wouldn't be able to respect challenge AND acceleration like we have now. If you take our mindset now, and say a dungeon that used to take 8 minutes now takes 15, due to a strict sync, you have nerfed player time value; however, with the suggested filter you haven't (as excess is used for rewards).
In terms of numbers, if you sync a ilvl from 600 to 50 or extract large amounts of damage, the numbers appearing on the monster's health bar are going to look similar. So in that regards I think what you said you would like and what I suggested are essentially similar, I just want to also maintain the acceleration (without loss of challenge) and reward of gearing beyond the strict sync itself. -
02-05-2025, 08:05 AMAlice_Rivers
I get what you're saying but I think there's room to do both, having lower ilvl sync and time-gate reward tiers. I think it would be really neat in high level content if the devs calculated the perfect run added 30s and made that time-gate drop enough special rewards for every party member to get one, that could be eight mounts, eight music rolls, eight minions, eight materials or any combination of as a reward for doing a perfect run, then step down from that to a standard set of drops at a higher rate, so on and so forth until a truly abysmal run is practically a participation trophy.