Can we bring back freedom of speech?

If you review the terms of service for this game, it feels like almost anything can get you banned:

Profanity: Bannable
Politics: Bannable (unless it’s LGBTQ-related)
Offending someone for any reason: Bannable

This has reached a point where I’ve stopped participating in in-game chats altogether. I haven’t actively spoken in FFXIV since the Stormblood expansion because both the community and the terms of service have changed so drastically.

For me, it’s simply not worth the risk of having a casual conversation when someone could jeopardize my account over something they personally dislike. And let’s be honest: most players don’t call GMs because they’re genuinely offended—they do it out of spite. Square Enix shouldn’t allow their moderation system to become a tool for petty revenge.

Of course, I’m aware that some people will see this post and jump to the conclusion that I just want to “say slurs” or something equally absurd. That couldn’t be further from the truth. I’m simply asking for the ability to talk like a normal human being in 2025 without fearing for my account. And, no, I haven't been punished or anything recently in game. In fact, I've had a clean record for 10 years because I don't talk at all!

There’s also an inherent double standard in the game. Look at the Party Finder—it’s filled with postings for LGBTQ-related events. Good for them! But if someone were to post a PF recruiting for something like a “Trump Guild,” the player base would likely report it en masse. Why is it acceptable for some groups to openly seek like-minded peers while others cannot?

I believe the terms of service need serious revision. MMOs are supposed to be social experiences, but I’m tired of treating other players like NPCs, and constantly walking on eggshells to avoid offending someone. Most of the player base are adults, and they should be forced to learn adult social skills if they haven't already. We're all big boys and girls here.

Personally not a fan of saying LGBTQ+ events are in the same area as recruitment drives for certain unsavory political groups. But I don't think this thread is made in earnest.

Who mentioned Hitler anywhere? Are you okay? Calling something you don't like "Hitler" should be an automatic account suspension under the current TOS, but I'm sure it won't be. Not that I'd bother reporting you.

Someone mentioned something in a thread about the Nono tool that I can’t stop thinking about. They pointed out that you could literally get reported for simply telling someone to turn on their tank stance. If I hadn’t experienced something similar myself, I would have dismissed it as nonsense, but now I can’t deny it anymore. It’s crazy how many people in this game avoid communication or report others over the most trivial things, all while labeling other communities as toxic.

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

Who mentioned Hitler anywhere? Are you okay? Calling something you don't like "Hitler" should be an automatic account suspension under the current TOS, but I'm sure it won't be. Not that I'd bother reporting you.

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cant see anything about hitler though ...

If you are having a civilized discussion the moderators are not going to take action, as long as both parties involved were in it

If you one-sidedly bring up a topic, get asked to stop, and continue, thats when they will absolutely enforce the rules

He edited his comment.

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Originally Posted by Dante131

cant see anything about hitler though ...

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He edited his comment. Sorry I'm not forum savvy.

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Originally Posted by Dante131

Someone mentioned something in a thread about the Nono tool that I can’t stop thinking about. They pointed out that you could literally get reported for simply telling someone to turn on their tank stance. If I hadn’t experienced something similar myself, I would have dismissed it as nonsense, but now I can’t deny it anymore. It’s crazy how many people in this game avoid communication or report others over the most trivial things, all while labeling other communities as toxic.

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The TOS are intentionally vague because they ultimately want to have control over their game and community. That makes sense, but the indisputable truth is that the community in games abuses moderation tools. We're lucky that SE cares enough to have GM staff. In games like WoW, the system is entirely automated. This means that popularity contests determine whether things like account silences are issued, and human oversight happens much later, if ever. So we're not nearly at that level yet, and hopefully we never will be.

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Originally Posted by Dante131

cant see anything about hitler though ...

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I edited my comment because I used an example OP wasn't able to follow, they misunderstood my point and began responding aggressively. I've removed the example to make it clearer that apples are not oranges.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

I edited my comment because I used an example OP wasn't able to follow, they misunderstood my point and began responding aggressively. I've removed the example to make it clearer that apples are not oranges.

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You replied directly to my post and said that recruiting for a Trump guild was equivalent to recruiting for the Hitler Youth. You're now backpedaling. You were wise to edit your comment because any normal person would not have viewed what you wrote favorably.

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

You replied directly to my post and said that recruiting for a Trump guild was equivalent to recruiting for the Hitler Youth. You're now backpedaling. You were wise to edit your comment because any normal person would not have viewed what you wrote favorably.

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I didn't quote you and I didn't say that. That's how you interpreted my post, so like I said I edited my post to make my point clearer.

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Originally Posted by Raraka

If you are having a civilized discussion the moderators are not going to take action, as long as both parties involved were in it

If you one-sidedly bring up a topic, get asked to stop, and continue, thats when they will absolutely enforce the rules

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That would be an ideal world, but unfortunately, it isn’t the reality. For instance, I was in a trial and took the time to explain some mechanics, including pointing out that a specific role would always receive a certain mechanic and how to handle it. Apparently, someone in that role took offense and reported me. As you can imagine, I ended up having a discussion in the game’s "jail," or else I wouldn’t even know about the report.

No, I wasn’t harsh or calling anyone out specifically I was simply explaining the mechanics. Yet, it seems that even providing helpful information can be deemed reportable. And then people wonder why no one explains anything anymore.

I understand that the rules are intentionally vague to allow some flexibility, but after that experience, I don’t even bother to say hello in chat anymore.

I can clearly see why so many others have adopted the same approach, and based on what I’ve read in various threads, this seems to be a common experience for many players. Ofc i dont have any screenshots so you probably will not believe me which is okay.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

You replied directly to my post and said that recruiting for a Trump guild was equivalent to recruiting for the Hitler Youth. You're now backpedaling. You were wise to edit your comment because any normal person would not have viewed what you wrote favorably.

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Woah woah woah, no one said anything about Elon Musk preforming a Hitler salute at Trumps inauguration that may or may not have inspired some youths to think it was ok to normalize a gesture like that.
Even a free speech absolutist like you wouldn't agree with complete free speech if it upsets you. Just like your reply, you don't like misinformation which would also fall under "free speech" if people are "just saying".

Also you know what? This game is extremely lenient about speech. To cite your example. Even if someone made let's say an Oathkeepers guild. A GM would likely make you change the name and still keep the free company. They would then become, Oatkeepers. Farmers if you will, who lead a quiet life tending to the fields.

Conflating "[The] Congress [of the United States of America] shall make no law ..." with Terms of Service for a Japanese-based MMORPG is a foolish game that you cannot win.

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Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

Woah woah woah, no one said anything about Elon Musk preforming a Hitler salute at Trumps inauguration that may or may not have inspired some youths to think it was ok to normalize a gesture like that.
Even a free speech absolutist like you wouldn't agree with complete free speech if it upsets you. Just like your reply, you don't like misinformation which would also fall under "free speech" if people are "just saying".

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I believe in absolutely free speech. If people say something that upsets me, part of free speech is that I can say what I want back to them. This is, of course, outrageous in online communities because they generally operate under the principle that they can say whatever they want, and you must quietly listen. If you do say something back then they will call a GM, or slap a report button, or do anything in their power to censor your speech, because only their speech is valid.

This is dominant culture on propaganda platforms such as Reddit. It would be nice for Square Enix to not allow a similar thing to take hold in their game, but it has, both in game, and game-adjacent in discords, twitch streams, and other forms of media.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Conflating "[The] Congress [of the United States of America] shall make no law ..." with Terms of Service for a Japanese-based MMORPG is a foolish game that you cannot win.

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The concept of free speech is independent of the first amendment. One is an inalienable right, and the other is part of a document saying that the government can't take away that right. You have conflated the two, and this conflation is a common "gotcha" far-left talking point. Sadly divorced from reality and perhaps more accurately described as a strawman.

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

This has reached a point where I’ve stopped participating in in-game chats altogether. I haven’t actively spoken in FFXIV since the Stormblood expansion because both the community and the terms of service have changed so drastically.

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this paired with the fragile Ego's of most players is really toxic.

you can't tell them if they do somethng wrong
you can't give adivce
you can't tell them do do something better

or they feel offended in their infallibility.

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Originally Posted by Dante131

cant see anything about hitler though ...

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Didn't think id see hitler pop up on forums ima have to add this to my bingo card lol

All jokes I think there needs to be a better way to describe free speech vs hate speech where the line is drawn for both sides cause if some giving you advice u feel the neef to report i believe you should recieve a harsh punishment.

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

If you review the terms of service for this game, it feels like almost anything can get you banned:

Profanity: Bannable
Politics: Bannable (unless it’s LGBTQ-related)
Offending someone for any reason: Bannable

This has reached a point where I’ve stopped participating in in-game chats altogether. I haven’t actively spoken in FFXIV since the Stormblood expansion because both the community and the terms of service have changed so drastically.

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If you feel shackled by the ToS that says more about you than the ToS.

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

The concept of free speech is independent of the first amendment. One is an inalienable right, and the other is part of a document saying that the government can't take away that right.

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Sounds pretty alienable if a video game company can just take it away

But seriously, a 4chan MMO isn't a viable business model. Most people that complain about free speech just want to inflict their toxic behavior on others and for it to be socially acceptable. The normies don't want to pay to hang out with a bunch of jerks, and it's no fun for the jerks if there aren't any normies to aggravate

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

This has reached a point where I’ve stopped participating in in-game chats altogether.
…
For me, it’s simply not worth the risk of having a casual conversation when someone could jeopardize my account over something they personally dislike.
…
I’m tired of treating other players like NPCs, and constantly walking on eggshells to avoid offending someone.
…
I’m simply asking for the ability to talk like a normal human being in 2025 without fearing for my account.

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I’m a little intrigued by how you feel your casual conversations and normal human behaviour have had a high enough probability to bring up sensitive topics around internet strangers that you feel you just have to stop chatting altogether to keep your account safe.

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

I believe in absolutely free speech. If people say something that upsets me, part of free speech is that I can say what I want back to them. This is, of course, outrageous in online communities because they generally operate under the principle that they can say whatever they want, and you must quietly listen. If you do say something back then they will call a GM, or slap a report button.

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If you’ve been in online communities you may have realized you can’t really reason with someone who’s being a jerk. It’s unfortunately not like real life where the average person is a not as weird. If you’re being harassed you might as well report them unless you want to waste energy typing, and if it’s just them bringing up a topic you don’t like then you might as well just ignore them (or consider reporting them if the topic is REALLY unreasonable to randomly chat about in a game). We can’t really convince random people on the internet to be reasonable.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Sounds pretty alienable if a video game company can just take it away

But seriously, a 4chan MMO isn't a viable business model. Most people that complain about free speech just want to inflict their toxic behavior on others and for it to be socially acceptable. The normies don't want to pay to hang out with a bunch of jerks, and it's no fun for the jerks if there aren't any normies to aggravate

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can you please kindly explain, how asking politely for something small like putting up a tank stance is toxic ? Because as i stated already people can report you for that and its already happened. People dont want to pay for shut them from communicating aswell. Had a day of only dungeon / ali raid grinds on another job well the chat was empty the whole day i dont know why...

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Originally Posted by Dante131

can you please kindly explain, how asking politely for something small like putting up a tank stance is toxic ? Because as i stated already people can report you for that and its already happened. People dont want to pay for shut them from communicating aswell. Had a day of only dungeon / ali raid grinds on another job well the chat was empty the whole day i dont know why...

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You can literally report anyone in the game for anything, and a GM might follow up by asking the other party for their side of events before taking any action

It sounds like you're self-censoring because you believe an urban legend started by a troll or liar. People aren't chatty in instances because they do them for their weekly grind. FC/LS are where people chat

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Originally Posted by Dante131

can you please kindly explain, how asking politely for something small like putting up a tank stance is toxic ? Because as i stated already people can report you for that and its already happened.

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In the rules’ faq, it actually says directly you’re allowed to politely ask things of people, and uses the example of tank stance. If you got reported and it went as far as getting a penalty then I’d want to ask about how it got that far. I explain mechanics to people too, but haven’t gotten into GM jail.

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Expressing your wishes in the form of a request, as in the following example, does not constitute a violation.

"I'm getting attacked by the enemies, can you put on your stance?"

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Under the section of Nuisance Behaviour -> Expressions that compel a playing style

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...&la=1&ret=rule

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

You can literally report anyone in the game for anything, and a GM might follow up by asking the other party for their side of events before taking any action

It sounds like you're self-censoring because you believe an urban legend started by a troll or liar. People aren't chatty in instances because they do them for their weekly grind. FC/LS are where people chat

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so i am an urban legend now ? :D but you ofc are free to deny it since i have no screenshot or something as proof. But you actually cant deny that before the change people been more chatty in party chat aswell. Like in stormblood people been chatty in every dungeon i entered and begin of shadowbringers aswell. Nowdays you will not get a hallo anymore

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Originally Posted by Voryn

In the rules’ faq, it actually says directly you’re allowed to politely ask things of people, and uses the example of tank stance. If you got reported and it went as far as getting a penalty then I’d want to ask about how it got that far. I explain mechanics to people too, but haven’t gotten into GM jail.



Under the section of Nuisance Behaviour -> Expressions that compel a playing style

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...&la=1&ret=rule

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thats great for you btw nobody talks like "I'm getting attacked by the enemies, can you put on your stance?" most will as the tank for stance which people did and probably somebody read it aggresivly ? You know that text messages might tend to have another tone of the actual meaning. me in particular got in jail not really with consequence for explaining a tank swap in an ex trial which people somehow got offended by since then ill never explain stuff again again as in my priv posts since i do not have evidance you are ofc free to not believe me and just expect i insulted somebody been rude or whatever reason might come into your head.

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Originally Posted by Dante131

so i am an urban legend now ? :D but you ofc are free to deny it since i have no screenshot or something as proof. But you actually cant deny that before the change people been more chatty in party chat aswell. Like in stormblood people been chatty in every dungeon i entered and begin of shadowbringers aswell. Nowdays you will not get a hallo anymore

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The urban legend is "I was banned for asking someone to put up their tank stance"

Someone was annoyed by something you did and reported it as harassment. A GM snatched you up to ask for your side, and that was it

I'm on PS5 without a keyboard, I have no time for politness because it takes a long time to type. The most commmon response to my single "Stance" comment is still "thank you". And if they don't I just leave, I don't waste time arguing with bad tanks.

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Originally Posted by Dante131

me in particular got in jail not really with consequence for explaining a tank swap in an ex trial which people somehow got offended by

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It sounds like this is a case of the GM doing their due diligence to look into things, seeing what happened, and confirming that you weren’t wrong because they didn’t penalize you for explaining mechanics. I wonder about what the GMs do about unnecessary reports, but I’m not that familiar with the rules for that and can’t find them.

While I personally don’t agree that it’s right for your case to lead to being afraid of explaining anything, I do get where you’re coming from with regards to what the examples are like. They’re overly polite to the point of sounding unnatural, and I don’t expect people to be polite to that degree. If I say in a dungeon, “turn on your tank stance so the rest of us don’t die” (which I actually have said a couple times, lol), if the tank somehow gets upset then the rules say they’re correct to report me, even though I expect the GMs to not penalize me.

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Originally Posted by ExcellusUltimus

I haven’t actively spoken in FFXIV since the Stormblood expansion because both the community and the terms of service have changed so drastically.

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I think its more so that the community has changed, and how the ToS is enforced.
Peeps would rather report someone for hurting their fee-fees than just blacklisting them.

OP, i think you're the problem (and anyone who relates / agrees). I've engaged in profanity, politics and even offended a few people - never got banned for it. Wanna know why? Because contextually it was appropriate and the outcome was reasonable.


Profanity: saying a slur when i die in a boss fight, or cussing someone when they do or say something stupid, or just roleplaying (that doesn't count i suppose). The game also features a profanity filter so it's stupid to get banned for a filtered term so long as you're not trying circumvent it. Actively spamming insults for no reason gets you banned because you're disrupting the game by abusing game functions - this is what gets you.


Politics - i talked politics just fine, including trump, election results, taiwan, t. square and other things. The reason it's fine is the same - normal discussion is OK, it's when you specifically troll or incite toxicity that may get your account actioned against.


Discussions about gender is not political, it's an intimate personal topic that discussed among close friends or lovers. It's, again, when you make a big deal in public about it that you start disrupting other people with unwanted and unrelated intimate topics that gets your account actioned. Sensitive or intimate topics include: religion, sex, sexuality, gender (those 3 are different btw), taste in food*, gameplay performance in context**, political affiliation or opinions ---> ALL of these can be discussed in game just fine, you simply need to have some common sense and engage those topics in the appropriate context, typically with one or two people that you know are open to discussing it with you.

As for offending others or getting offended myself - that happened a few times. The result was a swift Blacklisting and we never engaged again. it's when someone tries to circumvent these game functions that gets you into trouble.

* It is wise to not argue about taste because, like gender or sexuality, everyone has their own.
** Do NOT criticize a sprout in Sastasha for doing "bad dps" for any reason. It's absolutely OK to do that at max lvl in Savage clears. Still can't reference out-of-game info like parsed damage numbers.

PS: i reserve the right to be wrong, so i'm happy to listen if you have constructive corrections