leveling in 2.0 content over grinding.

So we know Yoshi wants us to level our classes/jobs through clearing content. That the "camp and grind" will take a back seat for level progression.

This works well in a game where you have 1 character locked into 1 job/class. There is enough content to consume that will get you from level 1 to cap w/o much repeat.

So how will this work in XIV when you have 1 character that can be 8 battle classes? Will content be repeatable? aka exp rewards upon each repeat dungeon clear, re-questable missions?

I'm worried that there is going to be content available with excellent exp/item rewards that will get your first class/job to level 50(cap) but for everyother class/job you take on the content becomes less and less, or rewards aren't as gainful the 2nd/3rd-7th time around which will force us back to square 1, camp and grind.

My main concern is that given the fact there needs to be enough quests to sustain a system like this they will be very throw away quality quests that are repeatable since as said it's mostly a 1:1 playstyle in MMORPGs, not the kind we have in FFXI/FFXIV.

If SE were smart about this, they can make monster griding the main progression and quest chaining a supplement to it, much like they did in FFXI with Fields/Grounds of Valour -- barring alliances (in XI) you gain monster kill exp + completion bonus which goes up to 1k-4k a pop and self-repeating.

Probably repeatable quests like guildleves are now.

repeteable quest for each class i suppose. It would be very nice if each quest has more then a option to complete..
Like SW: example kill the npc, save him, or simply leave it..

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

My main concern is that given the fact there needs to be enough quests to sustain a system like this they will be very throw away quality quests that are repeatable since as said it's mostly a 1:1 playstyle in MMORPGs, not the kind we have in FFXI/FFXIV.

If SE were smart about this, they can make monster griding the main progression and quest chaining a supplement to it, much like they did in FFXI with Fields/Grounds of Valour -- barring alliances (in XI) you gain monster kill exp + completion bonus which goes up to 1k-4k a pop and self-repeating.

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This imo would have been the best way to go...or a blance of both so you can do either one or both.

or they are making instanced dungeons as a source of exp, content/quest driven doesnt always means repeatable quest.. It can be done nicely like GW2's Dynamic Quest or like the other MMOs outside where you can actually grind for exp inside dungeons.

I love the levs. Are they getting rid of that?

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Originally Posted by JillyBean

I love the levs. Are they getting rid of that?

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Nope, they're redoing it which was essentially XIV's version of quest-chaining to begin with.

Maybe.....LOTS OF CONTENT!!! Would be nice... But probably repeatable content.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

If SE were smart about this, they can make monster griding the main progression and quest chaining a supplement to it, much like they did in FFXI with Fields/Grounds of Valor

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That's exactly what leves are. Killing some mobs, and get an Xp reward for it.

And besides, progression by grinding is just utterly boring. It was in FFXI and it is in FFXIV although they made levelling much quicker than the old FFXI.

They should do a lot of class quests. Not automatically enough to go 1-50, but enough to get the vast majority of your Xp that way. Since class quests are...well...tied to your current class, you'd have no problem levelling multiple class on your character.

And besides, they sould arrange the content like a real adventure. Starting in you town and visiting further and further while doing quests (And earning Xp for exploration). I know some people will flame me for the comparison, but that's what was done in WoW, and it felt much more fluent. It's no accident it's the number one selling MMO.

If you think about it, off-line FF worked the same way too.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's exactly what leves are. Killing some mobs, and get an Xp reward for it.

And besides, progression by grinding is just utterly boring. It was in FFXI and it is in FFXIV although they made levelling much quicker than the old FFXI.

They should do a lot of class quests. Not automatically enough to go 1-50, but enough to get the vast majority of your Xp that way. Since class quests are...well...tied to your current class, you'd have no problem levelling multiple class on your character.

And besides, they sould arrange the content like a real adventure. Starting in you town and visiting further and further while doing quests (And earning Xp for exploration). I know some people will flame me for the comparison, but that's what was done in WoW, and it felt much more fluent. It's no accident it's the number one selling MMO.

If you think about it, off-line FF worked the same way too.

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I would like this.

I'd like to see quests that are inside dungeons.

Kill 4 toads in Aurum Vale.
Kill 5 Hippogryphs in Dark Hold.
etc.

Agree with the above, class quests and exploration should be inextricably linked, dungeons should have an array of quests of their own. There still needs to be things to do "off the road" as it were. As mentioned, a Dynamic system like GW2 would help make the world immersive. Things like a Hunt/Mark system is also another way to feel immersed without feeling like you are completing quest 1 to 10 at hub1 before moving onto hub2.

I do think however that there need to be more substantial boss fights along the way from 1 to 50. The current boss type fights especially in the class quests and missions dont feel very epic or final fantasyish. Frankly there are no good boss fights until 50 and even then some of which are lacking. Granted it might backfire to make them too hard or to requiring a party every other quest, but some fights could be about endurance (seeing as most offline ff bosses are about endurance, mp or item management, rather than difficulty).

Quests designed for levelling your character shouldn't need a party.
But that doesn't prevent them for offering interesting or difficult fights. "Solo" doesn't mean "easy", especially if you can't bring party members to overkill the boss.

Think Maat fights from FF XI...well some Maat fights :p
And if levelling is made a little more difficult by these fights, it'll be a LOT more gratifying.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And besides, progression by grinding is just utterly boring.

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Yeeeeeppppp

What is the difference between completing a leve quest that says kill x number of mobs, or completing a "class" quest that says kill x number of mobs? People try and disguise all these leveling ideas as being different but it just boils down to kill a ton of mobs over and over again, kill a ton of mobs and receive a bonus every once in a while, or kill a ton of mobs in an instance then run the instance over and over. Did anyone really derive far more enjoyment from WoW quest hubs than they do from leves? Its still a grind, and nearly all FF games have required you to grind at some point.

Unique quests like Maat etc would be great and I hope they add them, but I don't know how they can create enough content like that to level multiple jobs to max level.

My guess: They'll let you quest almost all of your first job to the top, then the next job you pick up will require a little bit of regular grinding to get to the top, and then the amount of grinding you need to do will increase as you get more and more jobs to the max level.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Quests designed for levelling your character shouldn't need a party.
But that doesn't prevent them for offering interesting or difficult fights. "Solo" doesn't mean "easy", especially if you can't bring party members to overkill the boss.

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Yes. Like the one fraction leve, where you need to stealth through high level enemies who can one-hit you. Solo but not easy.

At first I was confused on how SE could make a system like this work when you play multiple classes/jobs on 1 character. I've been through this before in Eden eternal, and leveling other classes was quite a horrendous system compared to your first one. Then I noticed the different varieties to level up that have been mentioned and noticed that it could actually work.

Main Story- The main story already gives good experience right now. This quest line will probably help your first class/job, maybe even your second if you don't just focus on one. This will probably make your first class/job easier to level since the first one is usually the hardest.

Class Quests- I don't know if they're still staying, but if they are then they can really help make leveling different classes a more unique experience. Hopefully they increase the amount that there will be.

Jobs Quests- These give a good amount of exp currently. They may add more but it could just possibly stay the same.

Leves- They said that you can pick them up at other places than the adventurer's guild in 2.0. This will probably be the repeatable quests that are going to be given out per camp.

Instances/Instance Quests- This will probably where the main source of party exp will take place in. With the content finder it will be easier to join these instances to get a continuous flow of exp.

With this I could definitely see it working.

I'd rather level slower in content based leveling then grind with a group of random people with no set goal in sight at all. The quicker the leveling the worse the game experience. I was a huge fan of FFXI until abyssea came out and turned the game to garbage.

Content based leveling will also make gear slightly more important (if slower)and will help crafters of all brackets. The xp party grinds at our current speed makes almost everything worthless. Content has more importance in an MMO then leveling speed. It should be quick, but not quick to the point you can reach level cap in no time with almost no effort.

Lower level players and new players are bored and quit before they hit 20-30 because of nothing to do. Toto-rak is a pathetic joke as far as content goes. the time limit makes it a turn-off and the fact they have to wait til that level range to do it is discouraging.

Lets not forget: games with content based leveling destroy BOTH FFXI and FFXIV combine in sales and population. I think if you add FFXI and FFXIV's population together you don't even get 5% of WoWs overall current population. Not to mention the off-spins of WoW have a higher playerbase then both FF games as well. Even free-to-play MMOs can turn a better profit if enough play them.

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Originally Posted by Xikeroth

Lets not forget: games with content based leveling destroy BOTH FFXI and FFXIV combine in sales and population. I think if you add FFXI and FFXIV's population together you don't even get 5% of WoWs overall current population. Not to mention the off-spins of WoW have a higher playerbase then both FF games as well. Even free-to-play MMOs can turn a better profit if enough play them.

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Actually, if you combine them, you'd have about 5-6% of WoW's population.

Which spin-offs are you referring to?

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Originally Posted by Xikeroth

The quicker the leveling the worse the game experience.

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While this statement is true for the majority of those who loved ffxi and possibly other games, the fact is that the majority of gamers around the world would have to disagree with your statement for various reasons which have been discussed to death on these and every other gaming forum. In my opinion, if they lower the exp gained per hour, they should also lower the final planned cap. Just because this is final fantasy does not mean the cap has to be 99 (viii kind of killed that tradition anyways).

There are many benefits to lowering final planned cap & lowering exp gained/hour:
1) You don't have to change camps every 15 minutes
2) Having the freedom of a wider min/max level gap for experience parties compared to FFXI is pointless if you are changing camps every 15 minutes, especially if the highest lv member has a mountain of rested xp, and the lowest lv member has none
3) Gear lasts longer in relation to your level
4) Greater sense of accomplishment for attaining a level, ie: not cheapened

I'm sure there are more examples of why this would benefit the game but I'm in a rush, I just wanted to throw this out there. Either way, having this discussion on the forums at this point in time is probably just redundant. I would certainly hope that the dev team already has enough 'real' & individual content lined up to keep a newbie entertained for at least 80 hours of game play. Repetitive and senseless grinding is a relic of the past, a major indication that there are system/ funding limitations at play. Some aimless grinding is a good alternative, but to force consumers into this in this day and age will drive them away.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Actually, if you combine them, you'd have about 5-6% of WoW's population.

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WoW is free to play now, and for a good reason. Irrelevant data is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

At first I was confused on how SE could make a system like this work when you play multiple classes/jobs on 1 character. I've been through this before in Eden eternal, and leveling other classes was quite a horrendous system compared to your first one. Then I noticed the different varieties to level up that have been mentioned and noticed that it could actually work.

Main Story- The main story already gives good experience right now. This quest line will probably help your first class/job, maybe even your second if you don't just focus on one. This will probably make your first class/job easier to level since the first one is usually the hardest.

Class Quests- I don't know if they're still staying, but if they are then they can really help make leveling different classes a more unique experience. Hopefully they increase the amount that there will be.

Jobs Quests- These give a good amount of exp currently. They may add more but it could just possibly stay the same.

Leves- They said that you can pick them up at other places than the adventurer's guild in 2.0. This will probably be the repeatable quests that are going to be given out per camp.

Instances/Instance Quests- This will probably where the main source of party exp will take place in. With the content finder it will be easier to join these instances to get a continuous flow of exp.

With this I could definitely see it working.

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You have many good ideas here but there was 1 area you forgot to mention. Grand Company quests. I do not know what SEs plans are for the Grand Companies vs Free Companies but currently this has been an untapped resource for a large amount of content. With this and the areas mentioned above the numbers and quality of quests could be varied and immense.

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Originally Posted by Rizon

You have many good ideas here but there was 1 area you forgot to mention. Grand Company quests. I do not know what SEs plans are for the Grand Companies vs Free Companies but currently this has been an untapped resource for a large amount of content. With this and the areas mentioned above the numbers and quality of quests could be varied and immense.

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This could very much be true. I think the reason why I didn't think too much about it though is cause currently the Grand Company quests are the main story, but they could definitely add spin offs in 2.0.

In most generic mmos in addition to quest chains you can queue up for dungeons relevant to your level to gain exp. People are forgetting that 2.0 will have content finder, queue up get a cross server group clear out a dungeon trash mobs and bosses get tons of exp.