Cloud PFs breaking TOS? Public statement is needed.

Hundreds of Cloud of Darkness PFs have formed and filled in the past week or so with this line of text: "10+ clears, will check."
There is no achievement for clear counts higher than 1, and they are not lying (give it a try, you'll get kicked). We all know what this is and how it's done. Very simple question then. Is it okay or not?
Last I checked, you can't kick grey parsers from Savage PFs. It's considered harassment. Yet somehow this is fine? It's hard to turn a blind eye when the problem is bright as the sun, Square Enix. Even Crystal's posting these PFs. Weigh in already.

So you join a party with specific requirements you do not meet and complain you get kicked?

Do you also join a "kill party" when you have 0 experience in the fight at all?

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Originally Posted by Arohk

So you join a party with specific requirements you do not meet and complain you get kicked?

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Parties having requirements of some sort is totally fine and necessary. We can put Duty Complete and item level requirements on our party finder groups after all. But it’s technically not allowed by the rules to make statements about why people are being excluded. We can see it the list of prohibited activities https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...=68216&id=5382

(Please excuse my formatting, I’m not that familiar with the forums yet)

The section on Nuisance Behavior includes the following:

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Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.

It is prohibited to make statements such as the following examples to try to kick someone from the party, content, community, etc. as if they are not qualified to participate. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you're going to talk like that, why don't you just quit?"
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Let's ignore them."
"Let’s leave [person] out."
"It's not worth wasting our time, you should quit."
"Don't join if your equipment is that bad/such a low item level."

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So we can’t tell people they can’t participate for X or Y reason. Even though it is a little funny that one of these (item level) is a restriction that’s built into the game itself. So the situation is that the rules disallow us from saying “don’t join without 10+ kills” regardless of where the information is coming from.. The “legal” way might be to just kick people without giving a reason, even if that’s arguably either equally or more rude.

When do you get that Square isnt really caring about that stuff? They do it sometimes to "keep the shine of caring" but they actually really dont do it

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Originally Posted by Arohk

So you join a party with specific requirements you do not meet and complain you get kicked?

Do you also join a "kill party" when you have 0 experience in the fight at all?

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You've completely missed the point. I am not complaining for my own personal gain. I do not like the gatekeeping this two-faced community is doing on content that was specifically designed with the intent of introducing new players to difficult concepts. This is a huge, cascading problem for Final Fantasy XIV. The players who know how to play are insulating themselves in a shrinking bubble. There are people, many people, who will never touch Chaotic again— or worse, at all— because of the North American Data Center and its insistence on shoving out the inexperienced. Yes, the bodycheck is stupid. No, it isn't an excuse for this behavior.
If parse checking in Party Finder is not only tolerated but popular, we're entering very dark days for this game.

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Originally Posted by Riletz

content that was specifically designed with the intent of introducing new players to difficult concepts.

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One thing tho, Chaotic is definitely not for introducing new players to difficult content. They said it would be but screwed up massively. Making it a 24 man Savage instead.

It's far from that as it is super punishing to 23 people if one person screws up.

Heck due to 24 people I'd say our current Savage tier is a better point to get people into hardcore content than Chaotic.

That's where it becomes interesting right? I'm not sure to be comfortable with PFs specifically checking third party log websites as an added entry bar, but on the other hand, what happens with static recruitment? Almost all of them ask for logs. And even if they do enforce the TOS, what does prevent PF leaders to just kick people without any explanation even if they can't add log requirements in their description?

The real question is more about fflogs on an ethical level in the first place, let's be honest a minute.

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Originally Posted by Riletz

content that was specifically designed with the intent of introducing new players to difficult concepts.

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This is definitely NOT content designed for beginners, this is above Extreme Trial level difficulty, with very punishing mechanics, that are also hard to recover from.
People die and spawn at the wrong side of the room, you can rezz them but hey can't get back to their position, then when the player swap happens and someone is dead or at the wrong spot the entire thing falls apart.
At least in savage you wipe instantly, but in this fight it can drag along for minutes rying to rezz people but it is already lost.

When i killed Zoral ja on EX, i took me TWO attempts to clear, but this 24 man thing took me three evenings and at least 10 different parties.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

So you join a party with specific requirements you do not meet and complain you get kicked?

Do you also join a "kill party" when you have 0 experience in the fight at all?

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The issue here is that they are very openly using third party websites that are against the ToS. The policy is explicitly "it's fine to parse as long as you keep it to yourself and don't use it to exclude people".

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

The issue here is that they are very openly using third party websites that are against the ToS. The policy is explicitly "it's fine to parse as long as you keep it to yourself and don't use it to exclude people".

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in the end it is SE'S fault for making the fight so punishing that one mistake can wipe 24 people, it is only natural that people want to filter out bad players, or you jsut waste your time trying to kill the boss.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

in the end it is SE'S fault for making the fight so punishing that one mistake can wipe 24 people, it is only natural that people want to filter out bad players, or you jsut waste your time trying to kill the boss.

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It's a ridiculous step up from extremes or other stuff. I feel like it's a lot worse than previous 24-man "hard" content like DRS or BA? It just cascades failure SO fast to a wipe that it feels like you don't even get to practice a mechanic unless people are perfectly resolving everything up to it.

The fact that you basically have to have everyone alive at the end of p1 to even get to play p2 at all is a massive wall to learning the phase (and p1 can just delete everyone anyways if too many people - or any tanks at all - are dead for Rapid-Sequence Particle Beam)

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Originally Posted by Polaritie

any tanks at all - are dead for Rapid-Sequence Particle Beam)

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The more you Know-

If one tank of a party is dead, another can tank all 3 beams with invul.

Back in vanilla WoW we began dungeons with 40-person groups often within our guilds but sometimes later on, not. Sometimes these new dungeons took several days to complete but they were fun and showed comradery. I can never remember one time anyone being told they could not come nor they did not have the experience. Players welcomed all and we learned the new, more difficult content together. Personally, I have no inclination to do content where groups would act that way so it's fine but IMO, it could be TOS problematic for those that are being treated badly while trying to explore new content. Things are not the same in these games, this one is one of the worst for friendly difficult content running. "Man's inhumanity against man" but it wasn't always this way.

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Originally Posted by Besame

Back in vanilla WoW we began dungeons with 40-person groups often within our guilds but sometimes later on, not.

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Now compare the boss mechanics of vanilla WoW to modern FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Now compare the boss mechanics of vanilla WoW to modern FFXIV.

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Not comparing the mechanics, just the mindset of those playing now vs back when it was fun.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

The more you Know-

If one tank of a party is dead, another can tank all 3 beams with invul.

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Underrated information. This essentially allows you to handle the tank requirements for soaking the beams with just two tanks standing at her face using invulns.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Underrated information. This essentially allows you to handle the tank requirements for soaking the beams with just two tanks standing at her face using invulns.

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in theory yes, but if you got less than 3 tanks alive, the boss will kill your party with auto attacks.

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Originally Posted by Riletz

Hundreds of Cloud of Darkness PFs have formed and filled in the past week or so with this line of text: "10+ clears, will check."
There is no achievement for clear counts higher than 1, and they are not lying (give it a try, you'll get kicked). We all know what this is and how it's done. Very simple question then. Is it okay or not?
Last I checked, you can't kick grey parsers from Savage PFs. It's considered harassment. Yet somehow this is fine? It's hard to turn a blind eye when the problem is bright as the sun, Square Enix. Even Crystal's posting these PFs. Weigh in already.

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to answer your question yes people are doing such don't be scared to report them too

Truth is, this wouldn't happen if people were honest about their prog level and since you can't check that, it's expected that people would find a way.