The Choatic Alliance Raid, has only two mechanics which keep it from being midcore

The current chaotic raid is difficult due to the body check's it has. It only takes one or two players among 24 to wipe the entire raid. That is due two mechanics in my opinion:

1. The Towers on the platforms left and right
2. The Chasing Aoe after Looming Chaos

On the platforms the towers almost never get properly soaked, due to the mechanics of the add or an improper swap. It's so bad that using tank LB on the second set of towers has become an unspoken rule.

This however could be changed by just reworking the mechanic to not spawn any towers on the platforms, or limiting it to one tower on the platforms with it needing 5 people to be soaked instead of 6 with two towers.

As for the chasing aoe's they should be completely removed or also limited to two only. The reason for this is again the potential for it to wipe the party due to the mistake of one player. If played incorrectly it very often goes to the platforms and wipes the WHOLE other group there.

On a personal note, I have to say I absolutely detest this content. Finding a group capable of clearing it takes an eternity. I've been playing this game for eight years now, starting in Heavensward. I've cleared savage fights, progressed through ultimates, and even reached Crystal rank in Crystal Conflict, but I’ve never had as many toxic interactions with other players as I have in this chaotic raid.

I’ve had players rally the entire alliance against me for mechanics I didn’t even mess up. Someone once told me I needed to be "studied" after I failed a mechanic because I was disoriented from being revived. I’ve seen people hurling outright insults at each other as if they were playing League of Legends or a hero shooter. Once I’ve gotten everything I need from this raid, I will never step foot in it again—not even to help my own static clear it.

I understand why they added towers to threaten the raid, but bodycheking with them is bad. Instead I'd probably have introduced bleed debuffs instead of pure damage, the stronger the more towers missing. That way you can still try and heal through it, but it will take its toll on the raid.

The chasers are so unforgiving, I've had a wipe were I've gotten a chaser so I immediately started running only for the person with a chaser in front of me to hesitated for a second-- die to their chaser then I have 2 chasers hitting me from both sides I immediately die and now there are 2 rogue chasers to take out half the alliance

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Originally Posted by Cesarion

I have to say I absolutely detest this content.

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Originally Posted by Cesarion

Once I’ve gotten everything I need from this raid...

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Do people even listen to the way they talk about their relationship with this game? What are you doing to yourself? You have a finite amount of time on Earth.

Tank LB seems a good idea actually.

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Originally Posted by Cesarion

I’ve had players rally the entire alliance against me for mechanics I didn’t even mess up. Someone once told me I needed to be "studied" after I failed a mechanic because I was disoriented from being revived. I’ve seen people hurling outright insults at each other as if they were playing League of Legends or a hero shooter. Once I’ve gotten everything I need from this raid, I will never step foot in it again—not even to help my own static clear it.

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I will admit, having played since 1.0 and seeing a lot of moods over content, this chaotic raid has really brought out some extreme negativity - on levels I've not seen before. As for never doing it again, well, as time goes on it'll get better, much like every other fight in the game, we're only 5 days in on this one.

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Originally Posted by Lauwen

I will admit, having played since 1.0 and seeing a lot of moods over content, this chaotic raid has really brought out some extreme negativity - on levels I've not seen before. As for never doing it again, well, as time goes on it'll get better, much like every other fight in the game, we're only 5 days in on this one.

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It came out at a really bizzare time when most people aren't even playing the game (holidays/New Year's) during a patch that barely has any content in it, with a rewards system that's weird and doesn't really help the content patch lull in the first place, and wasn't the type of difficulty some people wanted. It's kinda a "the straw that broke the camel's back" situation for some people; it was just yet another miss on top of all the other misses the game has had lately in both Endwalker patches and Dawntrail in general.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

It came out at a really bizzare time when most people aren't even playing the game (holidays/New Year's) during a patch that barely has any content in it, with a rewards system that's weird and doesn't really help the content patch lull in the first place, and wasn't the type of difficulty some people wanted. It's kinda a "the straw that broke the camel's back" situation for some people; it was just yet another miss on top of all the other misses the game has had lately in both Endwalker patches and Dawntrail in general.

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https://steamcharts.com/app/39210#1m

The holidays don't have much to do with the fact that no one is playing the game at the minute. There were only 5% fewer players on the 23-25th than the surrounding days. It's just a continuation of the same downwards trend that we've seen since Dawntrail released.

It sucks, it sucks really hard because it could be and surely CAN be very amazing.

But first off its only a 24 ppl trial (so why again couldnt we get that with proto ultima as well?) and lacks everything that makes a raid a raid. It should have checkpoints - IE the clould doing an dps check/mechanic mid fight and we switch arena. Not to make it much easier, more so we dont loose the whole fight if someone messes up.

Also doing body checks in 24 ppl stuff is mean - we wiped so many times cause one party messed up and i just cant accept that, its beyond my influence what the others do. It sucked on Cid or Ozma back then and it does now.


I havent done the whole thing yet, but mechanic for mechanic as far as we saw its not that bad.

Personally i hate its randomness... id prefer if it had some more cohesive pattern IE it does a wind combo, a death one and so on. For example like its cleave-wind-stacks-cleave-stored wind-spread-cleave-wind OR cleave-death-spread-cleave-stored death-cleave-stack-death.
-Sure its randomness is one way to make it harder and usually im glad but most times you end up having several times the same combo (like she did the large beams 6x IN ROW when there were too many dead ppl to survive it) or does death for 5-6 pulls and then suddenly only wind, which just wont let me get into the flow of the fight as any ex trial would do... but thats me lol


And the gear again... its cool but most caster stuff is glamour only for me as its stats suck. 730 is nice and all but... why? next patch we get 740+, its again pointless gear, too late.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210#1m

The holidays don't have much to do with the fact that no one is playing the game at the minute. There were only 5% fewer players on the 23-25th than the surrounding days. It's just a continuation of the same downwards trend that we've seen since Dawntrail released.

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Alternate theory: the only people still playing this game are people who really have nothing better to do. Including spending the holidays doing IRL things.

running 1 circle in the arena shouldnt be considered hard..

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

running 1 circle in the arena shouldnt be considered hard..

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If 1-3 people are dead during the swap, you can have 4 players on either NE, NW, SE and SW. Which makes running 1 circle hard because there is no space to run.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210#1m

The holidays don't have much to do with the fact that no one is playing the game at the minute. There were only 5% fewer players on the 23-25th than the surrounding days. It's just a continuation of the same downwards trend that we've seen since Dawntrail released.

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The holidays did compound the situation though as many people who raid/grind content like this weren't around and some still are on vacation. But yes, it's not the main reason.

I did a few more PFs of this, and the main problem is it if you make it to P2 there are a lot of people dead at that point too many to raise, and it snowballs from there making it impossible to do P2 correctly and more people die till you eventually wipe.

Midcore content is content that is challenging for the casual player that wants to get into something harder. Extremes are the perfect difficulty for midcore. It can be punishing, but it isn't so punishing where one person making a slight error wipes the entire raid and we have to start all over again. I would save such mechanics for Savage raids and above where positioning has to be so precise otherwise it's game over. The overall difficulty of the 3 Extreme trials we do have are around the near perfect difficulty for your average midcore players.

Putting a mechanic that wipes an entire 24-player alliance raid if one person messes it up, is not it and it's not midcore.

I'd argue the fact that a singular tank death causes as much of a problem as it does keeps it from being midcore

if you can bypass it with tank LB3, by all means do such, seem like a proper use of it as well.

You still take a massive chunk of vuln stacks, If you survive it with tank lb. Every tower gives you vuln stacks per missing person, so a two man tower gives you two vulnerability stacks and 2 times dmg if you miss both and one if you miss 1(so even if your partner is dead take a tower) Like the mechanic wouldn’t be that bad if per tower it’s just 1 stack and 1 time dmg but if 4 people are dead in the tower section you get 4 hits and vulnerabilities at the same time. It’s just so completely bad design wise for a 24 man designed for pf. Same with the atomos that if they start to life suck they give the boss a regen stacking up to 4 times, once per atomos and over time that’s like 3-4 % heals on the boss.

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Originally Posted by Cesarion

This however could be changed by just reworking the mechanic to not spawn any towers on the platforms, or limiting it to one tower on the platforms with it needing 5 people to be soaked instead of 6 with two towers.

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This body check is very harsh because of a huge rng factor before it. But the main problem is not realy that the towers lack players, its that people died before the swap. Its that mechanic that causes the problem, if the swaps happen properly, those towers often also are done properly.

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Originally Posted by Cesarion

As for the chasing aoe's they should be completely removed or also limited to two only. The reason for this is again the potential for it to wipe the party due to the mistake of one player. If played incorrectly it very often goes to the platforms and wipes the WHOLE other group there.

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3 would be better then, where it prefers complete corners (3 or more players).
The mechanic isnt hard when all are alive. Like most mechanics in this fight.

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Originally Posted by Cesarion

On a personal note, I have to say I absolutely detest this content. Finding a group capable of clearing it takes an eternity

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Eureka tells different. 24p content is welcome enough.

To me the real problem is keeping people alive on the outer platforms. You can rez them from the inner area, but that pulls them in. Yet the other way around works fine. I think it would be helpful if rezzes take location into account:
- Got rezzed by someone from the outside, you revive at the outside healer pos
- Got rezzed by the inside while you are at the outside, you revive at the outside (in place where your corpse is)
- Got rezzed by the inside, while you also are, you rez at the healer pos

This avoids the situation where if h1 dies, that h2 cant rez them and you require a dps for that. Which should make recoveries a lot easier without changing too much on the fight itself.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

This body check is very harsh because of a huge rng factor before it. But the main problem is not realy that the towers lack players, its that people died before the swap. Its that mechanic that causes the problem, if the swaps happen properly, those towers often also are done properly.

3 would be better then, where it prefers complete corners (3 or more players).
The mechanic isnt hard when all are alive. Like most mechanics in this fight.

Eureka tells different. 24p content is welcome enough.

To me the real problem is keeping people alive on the outer platforms. You can rez them from the inner area, but that pulls them in. Yet the other way around works fine. I think it would be helpful if rezzes take location into account:
- Got rezzed by someone from the outside, you revive at the outside healer pos
- Got rezzed by the inside while you are at the outside, you revive at the outside (in place where your corpse is)
- Got rezzed by the inside, while you also are, you rez at the healer pos

This avoids the situation where if h1 dies, that h2 cant rez them and you require a dps for that. Which should make recoveries a lot easier without changing too much on the fight itself.

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I mean you could just have both healer outside and a dps inside they reach the sides easy with heals and a person dying inside can be revived and teleport over and if a healer dies you still have a 2 on the platform so you don’t have the inside rezz problem anymore.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

I mean you could just have both healer outside and a dps inside they reach the sides easy with heals and a person dying inside can be revived and teleport over and if a healer dies you still have a 2 on the platform so you don’t have the inside rezz problem anymore.

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I know that, but that does to some degree add stress on those dps with how much heal output there is, and general positioning. If the target is midcore, then having role positioning is often better. Thats why i thought making rezzing a bit more reliable does realy help, while not realy needing to change the fight itself. No mechanic does change then, except recoveries get more freedom. Thats why i think its a quite good solution, as now its essentialy meta to at least have 1 caster in the dps group to replace the missing healer for rezzes. It doesnt change very much, except making it slightly more graceful when mistakes happen.

Note that its not about being anoying for yourself, the anoying part is often that when things go bad, you cannot act at all. Making this part a bit more graceful should result in less wipes from body checks.

I disagree about feint particle beam, i didn't even read that far and just ran and it turned out fine. There's a pretty limited number of possible actions on the tiles, people can figure it out. And you can get hit once and survive. But yeah the hard body check on towers is completely out of place. Everything else is recoverable short of a total alliance wipe.