PVP maps: The Borderland Ruins and Astralagos

So it’s been *checks watch* almost 2 years since the borderland ruins was disabled in pvp and since it was disabled there’s been no news on its return.

So may I ask,

Why?

Why are there not one but 2 DEAD QUEUES in the PVP duty finder menu if there’s no news of when they will actually be added back to the game?
Rival Wings has been stuck with 1 map of play for over 5 YEARS when the original issue with Astralagos was the one side of the map had more of an advantage, but if they can rework maps like The Fields of Glory into what it is now (and I’m not saying I loved the shatter rework but they made each side of the map identical now) then how is it not possible in HALF A DECADE and one full rework of PVP have they not updated this map?

At the very least they shouldn’t leave inactive queues in the game making people think there’s a chance this will return, but since it is most definitely possible to rework maps in PVP they should add BOTH maps back to the game in one single patch. And I’m not saying this because I think the devs are being lazy, I know the development team is always busy and doing their best but these two maps being just plain unavailable like this hasn’t been helping to encourage people to play more pvp as it simply limits the modes that are available.

Yoshi P. said in one of the latest Live Letters, I think the one before DT Release that we will get new PvP Maps with DT and since then he never mentioned it again.
I truly hate the new Shatter Map, it has nothing to do with PvP, it's just a stupid Crystal grinding and if one team has 200 Points more as the other 2 teams,
there is no way in Hell that the other 2 teams can make up for it and win the Match.

They need to create a third Rival Wings map and a Rival Wings Duty Roulette. I don't even care if they fix the 'imbalance' of Astrologos, it should have been done years ago at this point, and it was never really that bad to begin with.

Rival wings and CC deserve a daily roulette so true
I don’t get why GUILDHESTS of all things still has a roulette but CC doesn’t.

I wish the FL maps would rotate every 6 hours rather than daily, so that those of us who detest Shatter can actually play every day instead of 2/3rds the time. Or just replace Shatter with Borderland Ruins which, we were told, was being "temporarily removed for rebalance."

I will not lie. It was an honor to watch me and my 20 fellow airmen being launched off the heliodrome pad as we flew through the sky mnk knockback or a salted earth. Ahh yes, those were fond memories. They should have just taken it from the roulette and let people queue up to it to earn the rewards from it.

Extremely small indie company please understand and help them purchasing some outfits / mounts and emotes at moogle store

I miss the old maps in FL I do not play in there as much as I used to due to boredom and people just running round not bothering to even try and win. I know it is only FL but it used to be so much better they have ruined Shatter I hate it and now you have dancers who do not even bother making a partner I mean anyone will do lol just use the skill. I wish they made it so we can have some meaning and work together it just seems to have changed so much. I like to win in there but now I hardly play.

Casual CC pops 24/7 in my data data center. Why do we exactly need an exp roulette for the mode?

I'm responding to the wrong thing though.

Astragalos was locked, because the devs wanted folks to try Hidden Gorge which was much more balance than Astragalos. It just never got unlocked.
Secure was already having issues after a few rule changes. That got locked, because people got sick of being punted to their deaths. If either of those modes ever come back I'm expecting for the map height to be significantly reduced to where you're not getting kills primarily for fall damage, just like they did with Shatter.

Be happy that the modes are still there despite being inactive. They could of gotten the ax like the feast did.

They are still trying to figure out how to bring back borderlands but without letting you go up the central tower, which cannot be removed or changed because it's part of the MSQ (and lore) and a couple of side quests. But donutting the map and central fight would break the map. All they actually had to do is remove all the knockback/pull abilities, but instead they chose to make their work harder for themselves by lying and pretending there was a balance issue. Shatter was a random area all on it's own so they were able to magically just make a new lower ice map with no cliffs, total coincidence, not trying to stop people from knocking/pulling people off edges for insta kills or anything... Makes you wonder what else they lie about.

They don't need to remove the central tower or the ramps to it, or remove knockbacks. Purify now has the added effect of preventing knockback/draw in effects, though it could do with a longer duration than 3s. And more jobs than ever have stun abilities. Players just need to press buttons or die

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Originally Posted by Zofian

They are still trying to figure out how to bring back borderlands but without letting you go up the central tower, which cannot be removed or changed because it's part of the MSQ (and lore) and a couple of side quests. But donutting the map and central fight would break the map. All they actually had to do is remove all the knockback/pull abilities, but instead they chose to make their work harder for themselves by lying and pretending there was a balance issue. Shatter was a random area all on it's own so they were able to magically just make a new lower ice map with no cliffs, total coincidence, not trying to stop people from knocking/pulling people off edges for insta kills or anything... Makes you wonder what else they lie about.

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All they had to do its to remove bases and make it so one alliance have to gain control of mid for a couple minutes to win. This map in fact had little to NO PVP involved besides trolling players with MNK/MCH/DRK on the bridges.

Every match its worse than actually shatter :

-Everyone goes mid
-Nobody wants to fight each other, but kill the drones
-Trolls (MNK/MCH) tries to push people off.
-The alliances now retreat to cap bases
-They start rotating and trying to keep 3 bases capped but as soon you go to another one its empty because no one wants to stay there defending against an horde.
>Nothing happens, probably there is an AFK in a base to kill
>Rotate between empty bases capping them for minutes without action
-Drones respawn in the center.
-Trolls are ready to grief.
-Alliances kill all the drones and retreat
-Repeat

Also keep in mid that making a comeback its virtually impossible because if you try to sabotage the first place you can't kill them in their own base because invulnerability buff.
Just awful map design that I ever see in my life.

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Originally Posted by KingArthur13

Rival wings and CC deserve a daily roulette so true
I don’t get why GUILDHESTS of all things still has a roulette but CC doesn’t.

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CC does not need a roulette, it already gives you massive EXP, has no Role Restrictions and always Provides Tomestones.
Think about how many people you see in a game of Frontlines with 0 Healing done and +7 deaths.
If you bring in a CC roulette, those people are gonna be polluting your Queues even more than they already do.
https://i.imgur.com/yB6Jwf2.png
People already call the game mode "Crystal Coinflip" a roulette would make it even worse.

A rework of the Guildhest roulette would definitely be a good idea though, if only just to reduce how frequently people from mentor roulette get sucked into to doing Guildhests.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

All they had to do its to remove bases and make it so one alliance have to gain control of mid for a couple minutes to win.

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Turing Carteneau into a proper King of the Hill map might actually fix the game mode. This is a good idea.

If folks actually pushes for fall damage to be nonexistent I'm going to push for all ranked CC games to be played on Palaistra.

I wish they would add more maps for existing Frontline modes. That said, I hated what they did to the Shatter map, it went from being geographically unique (like Seal Rock and Dashig Nadaam) to being identical on all corners, which I feel is just a backwards way to design a map. But adding a new map for each mode (without tweaking the existing ones) and bringing back Secure would be a nice thing to see, since Crystalline Conflict gets new maps.

I have no feelings towards Rival Wings as I don't find it enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by KingArthur13

Rival wings and CC deserve a daily roulette so true
I don’t get why GUILDHESTS of all things still has a roulette but CC doesn’t.

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What's guildhest? I don't see it on my roulette menu

I guess maybe they feel like Hidden Gorge has more for players to do than the original map? If that's the case then I wouldn't see harm in reworking it to add in elements like the train/mercenary. I mean, they've had 5 years so surely we deserve SOME kind of dev response by now. :confused:

Would be nice to have a new map to go along with it and finally get the dream of having a Rival Wings roulette as well. Let's get the Garlond Ironworks involved, I want to see what kind of shenanigans Biggs and Wedge cook up!

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Originally Posted by Tizzy_Tormentor

I wish they would add more maps for existing Frontline modes. That said, I hated what they did to the Shatter map, it went from being geographically unique (like Seal Rock and Dashig Nadaam) to being identical on all corners, which I feel is just a backwards way to design a map. But adding a new map for each mode (without tweaking the existing ones) and bringing back Secure would be a nice thing to see, since Crystalline Conflict gets new maps.

I have no feelings towards Rival Wings as I don't find it enjoyable.

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Agree, and it's worse than that because the spawns are so predictable once the first two have popped.

Those of you who complain about RNG on the other maps might keep this in mind. Symmetry and spawn predictability are how map-side RNG can be countered. Do you really want the other two maps to get Shattered?

I miss borderlands so much, was my favorite mode. I miss the big battles over the side bases and the race up top to kill the nodes. It really wasn't that unbalanced. I wish they'd just bring it back as it was and let us play it again. Also give us a rival wings daily challenge while we are at it. I enjoy the game mode a lot but never get to play it because the queue is dead.

Looking at how awful the Shatter redesign was, I hope they never re-release these two maps with their "fixes"

These maps are most likely not accessible because of DRK Salted Earth. Maybe the AoE pull effect of it should be a tiny cone (similar to warrior PvP LB) instead of point blank, to nerf that ability somewhat. But then again you have even more classes now with a knockback, even BRD with a range knockback that would be even more broken on Borderlands.

Just maybe frontline skills should be different from CC skills, to either remove knockback or allow counter play to it with buffs that give knockback immunity e.g. if you stand in sacred soil put down by your healer or tank. Or you can never make z-Axis PvP map again.

Like the other poster I also will not play shatter frontline. A faster duty roulette rotation would be nice.

I am glad they fixed HP values for Rival Wings though a little. But with the delay now, the mecha abilities are barely avoidable.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

These maps are most likely not accessible because of DRK Salted Earth. Maybe the AoE pull effect of it should be a tiny cone (similar to warrior PvP LB) instead of point blank, to nerf that ability somewhat. But then again you have even more classes now with a knockback, even BRD with a range knockback that would be even more broken on Borderlands.

Just maybe frontline skills should be different from CC skills, to either remove knockback or allow counter play to it with buffs that give knockback immunity e.g. if you stand in sacred soil put down by your healer or tank. Or you can never make z-Axis PvP map again.

Like the other poster I also will not play shatter frontline. A faster duty roulette rotation would be nice.

I am glad they fixed HP values for Rival Wings though a little. But with the delay now, the mecha abilities are barely avoidable.

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Again, Knockback and Draw-In effects can be prevented with Purify. Maybe increase the duration on Resilience and your fears about getting punted or dragged off mid and get killed by fall damage is a non-issue. Just press your buttons instead of feeling that these effects are omniscient, even Miracle of Nature can be Purified.

Bringing back Secure and/or Slaughter will be just fine with the current PVP kit now. You have a means to prevent the glaring “troll” issues with knockbacks and draw-ins. Just refine the game objectives and mobility for the game map.

And yes, please give Rival Wings a roulette. It sincerely needs it.

Some of my best Frontline moments were playing a Bard in Borderland Ruins and hitting MNKs and DRKs with a well timed Silence when they tried to knock my team off the ramps. Watching a Dark Knight fall to his death all by himself was the funniest thing pvp had to offer

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Originally Posted by Wasabi_23

Again, Knockback and Draw-In effects can be prevented with Purify. Maybe increase the duration on Resilience and your fears about getting punted or dragged off mid and get killed by fall damage is a non-issue. Just press your buttons instead of feeling that these effects are omniscient, even Miracle of Nature can be Purified.

Bringing back Secure and/or Slaughter will be just fine with the current PVP kit now. You have a means to prevent the glaring “troll” issues with knockbacks and draw-ins. Just refine the game objectives and mobility for the game map.

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a 3s purify buff is meaningless even against just 1 DRK or BRD, even if you have the best case scenario and all 24 players are pressing it at the right moment, the next enemy player arrives and you can't do anything
even extending it to 10s would not be enough I think, and it would be quite a huge gamechanger for CrystalConflict then

so "just press your buttons" won't do it, especially if the class that has this skill, can press another button that makes them 10s unkillable...you even get your battle high when you are dead, so these players are literally suiciding off a cliff just to get themselves and their team battle high

what you could do, is adding more persistent area effects for your party, like I mentioned Sacred Soil, a green bubble like refugium, everyone who stands in it will get knockback immunity

frontline needs role specific duty action skills I think, that cant be used in CrystalConflict