Game Mode Suggestion: Add a Spectator Mode

With the Eden Ultimate just about to be released, my friends and I were discussing watching the world first attempts. I then had the thought, why not have a spectator mode? The idea already exists in-game with the Fall Guys crossover instances. I'm by no means a programmer, so I have no idea about the coding feasibility of this, but how difficult would it be to add a similar spectator mode for high-end content? I feel like this could open up high-end content for a lot of people that have been locked out of it otherwise.

This way, you could:

• Learn the mechanics by watching other players and trying to follow them in real-time.
• Learn without being a nuisance to others by causing wipes.
• Learn without relying on guides (which, for my own case, I cannot retain information from).

Some limitations to the spectators that I would expect would be that they could not interact in any way that would change things for the players actually in the fight or distract them. So:

• They would be invisible.
• They could not inflict or cause any damage/healing or buffs/debuffs/mits/etc.
• They would not be targetable for things like stacks, chains, towers, tank busters, etc.
• No chat access. Or maybe that can be an optional setting by whoever is leading the active party.
• Nor access to any interactable objects, etc.

Some interesting things that could be added could be something like:

• A vulnerability-like debuff anytime you stand in bad or somewhere you shouldn't be (so you can keep track of how well you're avoiding the mechs).
• Adding slots in PF for spectator slots, so you can limit how many people are watching.
• Maybe adding a roulette option that allows you to queue into raid/trial/etc. as a spectator. (Highly unlikely, but would be interesting.)

What do you think?

I'll catch some clips here and there but overall, I am of the opinion that watching (and I mean actually sitting through a whole stream) someone play FFXIV is extremely boring. That said, I do understand how some might like it, and especially the case whenever an Ultimate is released and it's a wild race to the finish line. I think that, in this regard, a spectator mode is fine... just gotta work out whatever kinks exist in the coding and weed out anything that could be exploited by players.

INB4 "ahhh nooo this would take dev times away from things people actually want" (as if they actually devote dev time to things in general)

I don't see a reason why not to add something like this.

Twitch.
YouTube.

They could add it or they could just point to those websites, which is how people currently spectate PvE.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Twitch.
YouTube.

They could add it or they could just point to those websites, which is how people currently spectate PvE.

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Not really the same thing though. FCs/friends could use a spectator mode for teaching/learning or simply entertainment that didn't involve the hassle of setting up a stream.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Not really the same thing though. FCs/friends could use a spectator mode for teaching/learning or simply entertainment that didn't involve the hassle of setting up a stream.

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People actually do this through discord as well. They allow others to watch them play via discord and explain things to them that way. You can even watch people play via Steam. There are just so many ways to do this independent of the game now.

I feel like this was the void that duty recorder should have filled, but SE locked it down with so many limitations that it sits in the trash bin right next to fellowships, egi glamours and viera/hroth hats.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Not really the same thing though. FCs/friends could use a spectator mode for teaching/learning or simply entertainment that didn't involve the hassle of setting up a stream.

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This. also would be cool if you could look from a specific perspective (the way LoL has). It would help a lot in learning the movement in a particular mechanic sequence, rotation, and where to sit instead of going on YouTube with POV clears for a specific class/role.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Twitch.
YouTube.

They could add it or they could just point to those websites, which is how people currently spectate PvE.

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But Youtube and Twitch are passive.

As far as I understand OP, Spectator Mode means that you can navigate your avatar freely within the fight.
You can also phantom-attack and get pseudo-debuffs and vuln stack that give you feedback whether you dodged/resolved a mechanic correctly or if you would have been hit.

It sounds more like a play-along mode where you can practice the fight invisibly with actual proggers.

I think a spectator mode sounds like a good idea. Even if you are unable to interact at all (no phantom-skills and pseudo-debuff) running around in the arena gives you a very different POV than watching a stream.

The only "worry" I'd have is that this might become another precondition/expectation for PF ("don't join if you've never spectated the fight/practised the fight in spectator mode" / "Hector's guide & spectator experience" or something).

Then again I really don't want to dismiss a potentially very interesting feature because of unfortunate PF rando behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

But Youtube and Twitch are passive.

As far as I understand OP, Spectator Mode means that you can navigate your avatar freely within the fight.
You can also phantom-attack and get pseudo-debuffs and vuln stack that give you feedback whether you dodged/resolved a mechanic correctly or if you would have been hit.

It sounds more like a play-along mode where you can practice the fight invisibly with actual proggers.

I think a spectator mode sounds like a good idea. Even if you are unable to interact at all (no phantom-skills and pseudo-debuff) running around in the arena gives you a very different POV than watching a stream.

The only "worry" I'd have is that this might become another precondition/expectation for PF ("don't join if you've never spectated the fight/practised the fight in spectator mode" / "Hector's guide & spectator experience" or something).

Then again I really don't want to dismiss a potentially very interesting feature because of unfortunate PF rando behaviour.

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You are correct in my intent. The idea would be that you could kinesthetically learn the fight.

Before Fall Guys, wasn't there a spectator feature in the Feast/Fold/whatever the retired PvP mode was called? Or am I tripping?

Anyone who's tried and failed to follow video guides knows that there's a certain disconnect between seeing someone else play through the mechanic, and seeing it yourself. Even if you don't pass it. Just being able to see it on your own monitor with your own sense of game-feel is invaluable.
I think this would be a great idea assuming certain caveats. For one, I'd like to see some sort of whitelist feature. I don't like the idea of someone just not knowing that they're being watched if they don't want to be, especially if someone can use what they see against them. Not to say that it's a bad idea because of the possibility, but I think it would be wise to let players decide for themselves.
Second, and this should be common sense, there should be a hard limit on how many spectators can be there. Too many, and you risk lagging out the game, causing the raiders to not be able to play optimally. Even if the spectators aren't being rendered by the raiders, they're still stored in memory, and their data is still stored within that instance.

And this last one is something I think would be just a nice little quality of life feature that would help out in some certain situations. If the spectator opts into it, they can see a big X mark above their head when they get hit with a mechanic. This would only apply to things that don't rely on other players, meaning stacks, spreads, and tethers would all be moot, but it could still be useful to understand the snapshot timings.
I don't think this will be added any time soon because of Square's famous spaghetti code making bugs an inevitability, especially if they try to backport this to older fights.

Such a great suggestion. Active learning is always better than passive. Which begs the question :
Has there ever been any MMO that implements such feature before? Why not?

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Originally Posted by GartredZW

Anyone who's tried and failed to follow video guides knows that there's a certain disconnect between seeing someone else play through the mechanic, and seeing it yourself. Even if you don't pass it. Just being able to see it on your own monitor with your own sense of game-feel is invaluable.

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That is true but I have played long enough to know that this is primarily a timing issue and needing to see it with your own job. Fortunately, this is possible - you just search YouTube for "Content Name clear BLM PoV". This gives you an accurate sense of the timing of the mechanics (and how they last 3 seconds) whereas a guide makes it feel like a mechanic lasts 60 seconds. Seeing another BLM complete the content also gives you a good sense of how you can tackle it on that specific job.

One time I was watching the SE community team do savage on a healer and I thought "this looks braindead, I'm gonna try healing this". I watched a healer PoV video and it gave me enough confidence to replicate their movements in the game. I cleared it pretty quick.

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Originally Posted by Destati

Before Fall Guys, wasn't there a spectator feature in the Feast/Fold/whatever the retired PvP mode was called? Or am I tripping?

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Yes, SE is already capable of a spectator system. It does not seem difficult for them to add for large-scale content. It may be difficult for smaller content, but they could add a row for spectators in PFs maybe.

There's plenty of resources out there for people to learn, there's even a simulator (which I'm not a fan of), countless guides, POVs and so on. You can also ask your friends/FC to help you or teach you something you're struggling with. I know I did, yeah it won't click immediately for many, but that's what practice groups are for.

If the expectation of people on prog groups to go from 'yeah watch a guide' to 'watch a guide and come knowing the dance and execute it', I feel like it'll just add unnecessary pressure and another layer of really boring activity.

Would it be griefing then if you didn't come and have spectated the fight previously? What if people don't feel comfortable with being spectated?

On the up side, it might help people break the ice abit and dip their toes into content....but isn't that what FCs and friends are for? If you're interested in teaching or mentoring people, why not go further and take them along rather than have them simply watch. Let them make mistakes and learn by doing rather than mimicking.

Those are my opinions anyway, I think it could be abit double edged. I can see some benefits but I personally think it's unnecessary.

This is actually a good way to increase active player count. People who don't want to get online and raid might be interested in getting online and watching other peeps raid.

It could also let people experience something "first-hand" that they'd never experience otherwise.
(For example, I know I'll most likely never clear an ultimate because I just don't have the time for that commitment. But being able to stand in one? That sounds pretty cool.)

So being able to enter via spectator mode could further boost people's interest in the mode itself and in different pieces of content.
(And who knows, perhaps it does inspire somebody, who was previously not gonna try, to give it a go.)