Cheaters and Add-ons

Hi, first time posting here and i come with a question, why the devs do little next to nothing to stop the rampant cheating that happens in this game. I know that this is mainly a PVE game and if someone is using splatoon or some type of auto rotation cheat is not affecting my gameplay directly but why theres not a more restrictive system or anti-cheat in the game?

Now I've also heard that the devs can't implement an anti-cheat or any program to check if someone is using something they're are not suppose to because of a certain japanese cybersecurity law that prohibits them for using anti-cheats in their game, how much of this is true and if so which law is it and how can we fight the rampant cheating that happens in the game?

With a new ultimate on the horizon i can only imagine of what type of cheat people will come up with so they can clear the fight...

Is there nothing we can do besides reporting the use of cheats or can we ask more from the devs in regard of more restrictions in game on add-on usage?

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Originally Posted by MagicBeans

Is there nothing we can do besides reporting the use of cheats

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Correct, there is nothing else. The best tip I can give you is to enjoy your gameplay. Even games with anticheats that are so invasive they probe your butt temperature have cheaters. MMOs have been trying to stop RMT for more than 30 years with no success either.

Real freedom is when you do what you feel is right and forget about everyone else.

I agree that its nearly impossible to stop all cheating, but it shouldn't fall on the players to report each and every case of cheatings happening. Fair play between players should be something SE enforce in the game, it's so weird that there's alot of MMOs out there way smaller than FFXIV that use better anti-cheats systems, in case of FFXIV I don't even think they use one.

The devs are completely aware people use add ons and they don't care. They literally can't afford to care.

FFXIV and add ons should be held in the same regard as peanut butter and jelly.

Also looking at other games will get you virtually nowhere when you're criticizing XIV. That's not only because the core fans will dismiss it, but because it all starts from the top and if SE/Yoshi P don't care, then it's not going to be a major concern.

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Originally Posted by MagicBeans

I agree that its nearly impossible to stop all cheating, but it shouldn't fall on the players to report each and every case of cheatings happening. Fair play between players should be something SE enforce in the game, it's so weird that there's alot of MMOs out there way smaller than FFXIV that use better anti-cheats systems, in case of FFXIV I don't even think they use one.

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As Ath192 notes, genuine anti-cheat software is extremely invasive. The only area in which I'll subject my PC to that is from online poker clients.

That said, it is possible to spot many cheats without the GMs sticking a thermometer up your butt. In other words, rather than probing for banned software, it is possible to see the results of that software through motion (in the case of speed hacking/teleporting) or patterns in and timing of button presses in the case of scripting. Why more isn't done in this area I have no idea.

Best you can do is ignore them and know that you're not one of them
unfortunately japan has laws against anti cheat software, specifically putting programs on your PC to track what you're doing

And even if they could, i don't think they would. The casual and RP community uses mods so much at this point that they'd lose way too many subs for a small gain

Yoshi-P has always had a don't ask, don't tell policy regarding cheating.

Mostly it's practicality. A lot of Anti cheat are essentially Root-kits and they are illegal in some jurisdictions. Also, they have to be constantly maintained and updated, which is expensive whether developing your own or contracting out third party. A good chunk of the community also uses mods. Most of them are cosmetic, but there are also QoL mods which in some cases fix issues the game has had since launch (removing clipping), add features which should've been in since launch and will soon be added (chat bubbles), or even help with accessibility issues some players may have (condensing skill chains).

Considering the game is mostly PVE, and the competitive PVE aspect only impacts a tiny portion of the already tiny portion of the playerbase that does the content, it's probably easier to focus on them to verify for cheating and punishing players who openly engage to the point they're getting reported.

Wait, we're not supposed to have this discussion before ultimate world first. That's a thing for after.

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Originally Posted by MagicBeans

I agree that its nearly impossible to stop all cheating, but it shouldn't fall on the players to report each and every case of cheatings happening.

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Then dont.

Cheaters can't stop cheating and always come up with some excuse to justify it which disgusts me but what can you do. They won't stop unless there is some real fear of punishment and SE won't give it cause they can't even get hairstyles right. Their programmers are subpar from what I've seen.

Even if they could have anti cheat they would lose so many players that it could mean the end for FFXIV, at the very least they would lose much sub money and with the financial crisis going on in SE it's highly unlikely they will do something against it.

It's not that they can't, because they absolutely can - it's that they'd much prefer not to because doing so involves anywhere between locking down ALL aspects of reading memory and adjustments, implementation of kernel level anticheat / rootkits for a fast solution and performance problems due to those restrictions (and potentially more).

That and the potential loss of players that aren't using it to cheat getting punished and essentially being a damage to PR and possibly sub counts.

There is also the occasional set of players that got banned but ended up being pioneers for certain implementation of features we didn't have before like buff timers on Party List, damage types in float text or saveable sets of Waymarks (at the cost of moving waymarks mid fight however) - features that were often told as "impossible to implement, we can't" - yet here we are.

It is against TOS and punishment will be dished out accordingly when confirmed, but a blanket ban is not realistic due to many moving factors.

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Originally Posted by MagicBeans

why the devs do little next to nothing to stop the rampant cheating that happens in this game.

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1. They do, but they are only willing to stop cheating if they can detect it from the server side. This is because putting spyware on the client side would violate laws in some countries according to them, but realistically it wouldn't be good PR and there would be ways to circumvent it anyway.
2. They are more concerned if the "cheating" actually affects the server. This tends to result in them acting quickly because anything that can affect the server stability is a concern.
3. They also do not like if it causes an unfair advantage and if they find out about it, they do act on it but like I said, they are not willing to collect evidence directly from a person's computer so it's rarely acted on in practice if it doesn't leave any evidence or affect the server.

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how can we fight the rampant cheating that happens in the game?

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The answer to that is for the developers to implement the features of these "add-ons" where appropriate and possible, which is what they have committed to doing to tackle this issue. After all, people are using them because they want these features in the game and they are not.

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With a new ultimate on the horizon i can only imagine of what type of cheat people will come up with so they can clear the fight...

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You're right that they can't prevent it, but it's happened since early in the game's history (yes it was even happening in Heavensward), so the answer is this:

If you want to feel you did it legit, don't use them.
If you want to cheat, then I guess you can just deal with knowing that you did and hopefully it makes you feel good that you did?

It's not quite as black and white as that. There are people with disabilities whom find it helpful to use add-ons to keep up with others.

I don't use them to clear raids personally because I value the muscle memory you grow from not using them and how it shapes your brain for raiding better, but if someone else uses them, I don't really care. I only care that, one way or another, they are doing the mechanics right and not holding me back when we are meant to be at a certain prog point.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

It's not that they can't, because they absolutely can - it's that they'd much prefer not to because doing so involves anywhere between locking down ALL aspects of reading memory and adjustments, implementation of kernel level anticheat / rootkits for a fast solution and performance problems due to those restrictions (and potentially more).

That and the potential loss of players that aren't using it to cheat getting punished and essentially being a damage to PR and possibly sub counts.

There is also the occasional set of players that got banned but ended up being pioneers for certain implementation of features we didn't have before like buff timers on Party List, damage types in float text or saveable sets of Waymarks (at the cost of moving waymarks mid fight however) - features that were often told as "impossible to implement, we can't" - yet here we are.

It is against TOS and punishment will be dished out accordingly when confirmed, but a blanket ban is not realistic due to many moving factors.

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There's also no guarantee it would work. Capcom started putting Denuvo in all their games because people were using cosmetic mods to avoid paying for microtransactions, and there was a noticeable performance hit, but people ultimately just found other ways to achieve the same results.

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

Yoshi-P has always had a don't ask, don't tell policy regarding cheating.

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if I recall, that attitude only applies to mods. cheating is still frowned on.

personally I think the only thing that works against RMT is banning the buyers. Sellers with grow like weeds... but if you hard ban the buyers... thats people's time investment that they lose. banning works, but only if you ban the BUYERS

Not much you can do against cheaters in pve. Only thing you can rest on is that these people don't know how to play games / can't be arsed to play them, same with pvp cheaters and are pathetic enough to rely on automatic commands or prompts to "play" the game.

One way to hit RMT hard is to have a clear "ONE FC HOUSE PER ACCOUNT" and have all your alts share one house rule and nuke the people's ownership who own full wards of submarine churning FC's.
I own a single FC house and it churns out 500k-1.7 mill per every two days. Do the math on how this might multiply if you own a full ward of houses.

Yes, this includes nuking people who had houses BEFORE the changes, no loopholes, no "Its unfair, because I got the houses before the changes :( " no mofo, you probably have goldcap multiple times over, there is not a single thing in this game you can do in this game with that gil to make it go away. EXCEPT SELL IT FOR REAL MONEY, which you probably are doing.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

There's also no guarantee it would work. Capcom started putting Denuvo in all their games because people were using cosmetic mods to avoid paying for microtransactions, and there was a noticeable performance hit, but people ultimately just found other ways to achieve the same results.

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Exactly - that was what I was mainly referring to with the performance problems. Nice one.

Japanese law is a grey area.

While Anti-Cheat software isn't necessarily Illegal, it is Illegal to install software on a computer not belonging to you that can intervene or interfere with it's day to day operation. Kernel level aka "Root Level" anti cheats can kinda do that given that Kernel level is COMPLETE access to both the software and hardware side of your system.

Also the possibilities are endless with regards to data collection when you have complete unrestricted access to a customer's device.


The law in Japan is also the reason why they have to have this "No Addons" stance, It's Nothing to do with consoles existing


Japanese law has an "Unfair Competition Prevention Act"


This law prevents users from modifying game data, save data or installing modifications to a game unless directly approved by the game developer


This is why they cannot allow addons.



It's not illegal in the west to modify games/use addons in games, regardless of whether the developer allows it or not.


Cheating is still frowned upon but it's also the reason why "use at your own risk" is said about character mods.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Why more isn't done in this area I have no idea.

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Because you wont win the battle anyway. Anti cheats are only made according to an effect vs cost balance. Making it very hard, and therefor the cheat itself more expensive is a very basic thing they do. Regular detection does help, but only when reputation matters. RMT bots dont care at all here.

Its also a battle that is impossible to win as there is 1 tool that defeats all anti cheats: emulation. Sure, you can make the game heavy enough to avoid emulation from properly working (and usualy this is effective), but that is still only a race as the lowest setting defines how well it works (the lower the game requirements, the easier it is to emulate).

This is where consoles have an advantage: emulation cannot mimic the key that a device is signed with. So the console dev can ban based on that and also use that to sign firmware for your device so you cannot run your own. But with PCs this is unacceptable behaviour. Linux for example wouldnt support this at all as its not open source then, yet mandatory to get linux to run as most servers use this. Even if all home pcs have such limitation, a cheater might still own a server then and emulate the hardware on that.

Server side machine learning is currently one of the better ways to detect malicious behaviour, as it can consider a lot of factors that are very hard to avoid as a cheater. Even limiting the data sent to users isnt enough, as in most cases games still need to send a location because people emitting footstep sounds. Machine learning could already notice a diffirence in player behaviour for just such footsteps. THe main downside here: it costs a lot for these servers to run. Most of the time not worth it at all (hence only top tier matches might get checked here).

SE hasn't done anything about cheating since FFXI released, so it is nothing new. FFXIV v1 had a much worse problem the it does currrently but they did nothing then either. Instead they just deleted 90% of our gil at relaunch. So I am never surprised when cheater cheat.

I still think that games need to crack down harder on ppl who buy things with real money instead of those who sell things for real money. RMT can always make new accounts with throw away characters but actual players are much more invested and a perma ban would be a much more impactful deterrent that would help curb the problem much more efficiently.

SE puts cheats and mods even super soft insignificant mods in the same bag, if they remove cheats they will have to remove every single mod out there through one of those third party anti cheat tools that verifies game files etc, anyways if that ever happens this game will die, they will see a drastic drop in their income because either you like it or not this is a very social player driven game and a huge part of the community like RP, housing use mods and if you take away their toys from them thats an instant enrage. Ironically raiders use alot of QoL tools through mods (mods that SE have been implementing into the game lol) and i already see ppl also getting mad. The thing is that SE cant and will never ban mods (and therefore cheats) cuz that will straight up kill the game.

If anything the patch cycles are so slow and there such a lack of current content since EW that ppl that keep playing are mostly RP players, Cafes etc during downtime while other players just takes breaks or quit the game till something new drops and that doesn't happen often (patchs now releasing every 4-6 months)

All actions of the developers will have them weighting things like what could make more money with what could cost money to implement. This is them being pragmatic and they're not wrong.



For example, adding an anti-cheat to the game would cost some money and wouldn't really improve revenue. Cheating in FFXIV is usually not something that stops people from subscribing, or at least the system that they have now of receiving reports from the users seems to put enough cheaters down as to not rile up the player base. Also, adding an anti-cheat could stop some users from playing, like the ones with low spec machines or esoteric setups (Linux running Wine, Steam Deck, etc...).


Every time they did something to curb improper use of the game was because the financial loss of not doing it was significant, like when cheaters would run the Steam version of the game as the non-Steam version to refund the purchase after a while, which was being used by bots to avoid financial losses from bans. It was costing money to Squenix and Valve and was making cheating rampant which pissed off the players too.



So either the current way to handle the cheaters are not bad enough that it costs them anything or it's done in a way that they get their money worth it. If it works for them and don't get in my way of playing the game, I'm fine with it.

Since apparently everybody in this thread has a PHD in Japan's company law system a few questions;

Destiny 2 & Tom Clancy's The Division 2 have anti-cheat and more recently EA's Apex Legends has added anti cheat (also making it unplayable on the Steam Deck in the process).
Anyway those 3 games have anti cheat but are available in Japan, yet people here claim that it's not allowed to have those anti cheats in Japan.. so how come?
And what about CoD & BF games? I don't really play shooter games so I don't know which games have them but the 3 above I mentioned I know have them.

Not that I'm pro anti cheat. Or well I don't mind anti cheat but I dislike those kernel level anti cheat which are actually spywere and take a hit on performance no matter if you're low end or high end hardware.

I'm just curious about the fact that those programs seems to be not allowed in Japan, yet several of those games (with those programs in them) seems to operate just fine in Japan?

I’m gonna be totally honest. The modding community in ff14 is the biggest reason they wont do this. It’s a massive player base that mods the game and stays in the game because of this reason. They use it for RP and the other not so friendly for work role play and a big chunk of community events use mods.

Right. I have played MMOs since UO (I'm an old gal I know) and FFXIV does a decent job on RMT, esp compared to other modern MMOs like wow. It is slow but they do get people. Cheats, again slow. Usually server side hacks they get immediately but things client side like camera hacks or even targeting hacks in pvp take a while. At least they know what an RMT hellscape looks like... *looks at FFXI*

And I refuse to play games with kernel level root kits for anti cheat. They have not proved to be more effective. I remember when Valorant came out how everyone said kernel level would be a game changer and after six months that changed. The biggest thing a company needs to fight anti-cheat is man power which... most don't want to spend the money on.

Even modders block repositories of cheat apps so you can't easily install them. Most just want visual modification, not cheats.

They should just up the game a little and less people would feel the need for add-ons. Auto-combo for those horrible 123s with no thought or variation would be a first step.

The idea that someone can suddenly clear hard/sweaty content which he couldn't before because his 123 is now 111 is a little far-fetched.

Usually people start getting plugins because of things like that and after a while they look for more...

While I find sad but at the same time makes me think "aww you cute thing xD" when I see a DPS with no materia on, like with at least 200+ ilevel down over performing other players with the latest gear and materia while moving and jumping throughout the whole arena. There is not much that can be done. All I can do is to think they need those 3rdparty tools, or they won't have fun and rage quit the game.

Less ppl playing, less revenue to SE, and so on...

Also, I don't really think if we cut off all cheaters FF14 will --OMGWeAreSoDoomed *dies* xD-- but is a very good chunk since from the beginning SE didn't do much to prevent it.

BUT, there are different degrees of cheating, If the guy mentioned in my previous example, jumping, moving like a headless chicken and over-performing the whole ally in a raid is using a packet optimizer to spam the server so he/she doesn't have any latency to do a perfect rotation with no delays, but adding stress to the server cus the spam of packets to be the first inputting his data to the server, yeah, that bouncy fella should have the ban hammer.

Other add ons like glamour or changing appearance are pretty much inoffensive and normally it happens on the gamer terminal, I don't have any problems with them.

If people want to outperform and be """the best""" by cheating I only can say that if they want to brag about how fast they won with cheating, well... good for you bro xD. 80 to 90% of the playerbase couldn't care less. But, if they're happy they will keep paying the sub, so win for SE keeping high numbers.

This is only my own experience, but I've been paying since 1.0 and I can't recall a single time when it was necessary to go out of my way to report someone for cheating. I don't personally find it to be frequent or noticeable, and it certainly hasn't affected me directly that I know of. Are other players really encountering it so often?

As for anti-cheat, I don't even like mods let alone cheats, but I would hate to have it implemented. In my experience anti-cheat can cause launching and performance problems even for those of us who just play the game as intended.

Didn't one gaming company go after cheaters once by suing them all. Easy way to spot them is there is always small amount of lag when close to them.

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Originally Posted by MagicBeans

Hi, first time posting here and i come with a question, why the devs do little next to nothing to stop the rampant cheating that happens in this game. I know that this is mainly a PVE game and if someone is using splatoon or some type of auto rotation cheat is not affecting my gameplay directly but why theres not a more restrictive system or anti-cheat in the game?

Now I've also heard that the devs can't implement an anti-cheat or any program to check if someone is using something they're are not suppose to because of a certain japanese cybersecurity law that prohibits them for using anti-cheats in their game, how much of this is true and if so which law is it and how can we fight the rampant cheating that happens in the game?

With a new ultimate on the horizon i can only imagine of what type of cheat people will come up with so they can clear the fight...

Is there nothing we can do besides reporting the use of cheats or can we ask more from the devs in regard of more restrictions in game on add-on usage?

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I've not heard about the law thing all I can state is what Yoshida has stated and that he doesnt want to add it as the software is very invasive and as a gamer himself he wouldn't want it.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

SE hasn't done anything about cheating since FFXI released, so it is nothing new. FFXIV v1 had a much worse problem the it does currrently but they did nothing then either. Instead they just deleted 90% of our gil at relaunch. So I am never surprised when cheater cheat.

I still think that games need to crack down harder on ppl who buy things with real money instead of those who sell things for real money. RMT can always make new accounts with throw away characters but actual players are much more invested and a perma ban would be a much more impactful deterrent that would help curb the problem much more efficiently.

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LMAO flowerpot ban says otherwise

The banal acceptance of many of these responses is so depressingly on point for FF14 right now.

I hear James Gandolfini in my brain on repeat: "Wha' kin y'do, uh?"

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Originally Posted by Elizabetha

The banal acceptance of many of these responses is so depressingly on point for FF14 right now.

I hear James Gandolfini in my brain on repeat: "Wha' kin y'do, uh?"

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Addressing it would require time, manpower, and money. SE will not put any more than the bare minimum of any of those into XIV, so there's no point.

XIV and XI would be dead with anti-cheat.

Honestly, my take on it is, I don't care, most of it doesn't affect me at all, and if it makes the game better in any capacity to some, then it's a net positive, so who gives a hoot?

A question I was thinking about is, if there will ever be another Final Fantasy MMORPG in the future and the devs say they will activly work against cheaters, do you think many players will play it? At least of those that are using cheats and add-ons in XIV?

There's plenty of players who play without cheats and if everyone who has an add-on got banned today, the game would go on just fine.

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Originally Posted by MagicBeans

Now I've also heard that the devs can't implement an anti-cheat or any program to check if someone is using something they're are not suppose to because of a certain japanese cybersecurity law that prohibits them for using anti-cheats in their game

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

unfortunately japan has laws against anti cheat software, specifically putting programs on your PC to track what you're doing

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

A lot of Anti cheat are essentially Root-kits and they are illegal in some jurisdictions.

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This is patently incorrect. The source for this claim is this forum, specifically this post. There is no law against anti-cheats in Japan. In fact, several Japanese companies ship games with anti-cheat.

As everyone here knows, FFXIV is the most modder-friendly MMO on the market because of Square Enix. Mods and plugins can do everything from replace game assets to manipulate server packets, cheat game modes like Fall Guys, and automate the entire game from start to finish. In fact, every piece of PvE endgame content can be fully automated without any player involvement, including savage and ultimates. While regular PvP is mostly unaffected, the Fall Guys event has been completely overrun with cheaters. Square Enix has zero enforcement of game integrity. This is the only MMO where modding, botting and cheating of this scale is widely accepted.

And yet, for some reason, this is okay. The only sensible explanation is that FFXIV is just simply a lower caliber of game than most online games. The devs treat FFXIV like an indie GitHub project more than a AAA MMO.

By the way, check out the official FFXIV Community Hub on Steam for some great examples of our fine video game! And search "FFXIV screenshots" on Twitter for even more! No particular filtering here, this is just what shows up when you search for screenshots of our game. This is what you like.