/r/ffxivdiscussion: What do you think of the upcoming patch and the trajectory of the game?
Came across this interesting thread in the /r/ffxivdiscussion subreddit again, and the title says it all: What do you all think of the upcoming patch and the trajectory of the game? I think much of the new stuff coming out is boring and stale, and the long time in between patches definitely isn't helping. Like other forum members and /r/ffxivdiscussion members have probably already said, there isn't enough long-lasting content that isn't just one and done or completed within an hour or two. Lots of players have already mentioned the game feels like its in maintenance mode and I don't disagree with them.
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Original Post:
Mom said it's my turn to post about the newest Live Letter.
The upcoming patch has a new Ultimate, it has multiple PvP adjustments to both jobs and maps, it has a brand-new form of combat with an unlocked reward system that allows us to actively gather raid-level gear with tokens that help to buy more including first-timer bonuses including standard fare of mount/minion/misc collectables. In addition, it also has:
A new dungeon for roulettes where we may continue to see adjustments to the standard experience compared to EW's handling of dungeons and story content
A nostalgic (for some) alliance raid setting that gives catchup gear every week and currency to exchange for upgrade catalysts for raid gear
New dailies with beast tribes
New weeklies in custom deliveries, the new AR, and a Stormblood EX for Faux Hollows
New quests in three branches of side content separate from the MSQ
A detailed and long-requested improvement to Hall of the Novice to actively encourage good habits and proper resolution of mechanics for newer players
Adjustment of hit detection for PvP with a conscious effort to make it more action-esque and allow for blocking or avoiding attacks instead of guaranteeing to be hit once you see the animation
PvE balance and job adjustments (yes, buffing everything instead of nerfing PCT is stupid)
QoL changes to glamours and gpose with a direct comment on continued work to expanding the current data available to the player for glamours
The introduction of the ability to be able to easily copy and transfer your HUD, hotbars, config settings, and macros across characters
Further improvements on the graphical update along with another free Fantasia, weapon designs being added after a community contest, and an honorary mention for the ongoing intention of adjusting encounter design to be more engaging that will develop further in 7.2+
A decent amount of people seem to be complaining yet again, because it's r/ffxivdiscussion and that's what we do here (yes it is, don't pretend it isn't these days). Some say it's a lackluster patch, some say it's the same as always, some people want more significant changes to the fundamental basis of the gameflow. While I do think a lot of these changes don't quite go far enough, I recognize that they are putting in the effort to at least try and make some of these pain points less egregious. Whether or not it actually will remains to be seen.
For those of you expressing disappointment or disdain, let me ask: what effort on the devs' part - and what amount of content - would you need to see in order to consider a modern FFXIV patch a genuinely good and exciting patch? Be realistic, it's obviously not genuine to say "this is an x.1 patch and it needs to have the content of an xpac launch". Not talking about radical sweeping design changes, elements that work in other MMOs that function fundamentally different from this game, or changes that would lead the game down a path that triggers an unrealistically dramatic shift in design philosophy across the board, these things don't happen the way it is often demanded here. If you don't think it's good, that's great - surely you can back your stance up with constructive criticism and a tangible idea of how they may improve.
For everyone following the info drop from the live letter, whether your reception is positive, negative, or neutral: are the measures that the devs are taking ones that you feel are effective enough to address the pain points the community repeatedly criticizes? Do you feel they handle the relevant issues well, or do you think it's not enough? Are they foundationally flawed moves that cause further issues, and if so, what would be a superior approach? Would you be happy to see them take this new Chaotic reward structure and apply it to more content? What kind/how much content if you do, and how do you think it should be actualized to allow for a more satisfying gameplay experience moving forward into the rest of the expansion and 8.0? And above all, what areas would you like to see them focus on improving further in the patches to come?
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Notable Comments:
Tepid take, I know, but relics really should start in the .1 patch rather than the .25 patch. Even if it's just some simple grind step.
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For the time spent in development, it's lacking. Release cycle is poor relative to content's sustainability.
We had roughly 5 months for 7.0 and people found that lacking in content replayability and sustainability. It worked far better with 3 months and with more content overall, but they strayed far away from then.
Patch 7.1 offers nothing for casual players other than 1 dungeon + alliance raid (and hildy if you like it), but those are daily activities and have little to no replay value to keep someone interested, so it banks on PvP to be good for 5 months.
From what they are saying, Chaotic 24 man savage raids isn't for casuals. The 1 ultimate patch applies to a very small portion of the community.
Not to mention the Dec 24 release date, right before Xmas eve. It's not the best time or the smartest time to be releasing content then when they said they wouldn't do that.
I figure Hrothgar and Viera are still suffering from the utter lack of hats after the "graphics update". Female hroth got screwed over with 5 hairstyle choices only.
If they released relics and/or the new exploratory zone earlier, then there will be enough replay value to last a good while.
It really comes down to the poor development cycle. At least there wouldnt be so much burnout from people having nothing but the same content to do if the cycle was shorter and had more content in the past. We don't even get a second dungeon anymore.
They're just wasting development resources trying to make trusts on optional dungeons. Optional dungeons don't need trusts.
I wonder how many people are still waiting for glowing weapons from endwalker trial bosses on sage and reaper... and how many hate not having glowing weapons to look forward to on Viper and Picto for another 2+ years.
I'm not sure if I want to sub past one month with this kind of artificial content delay in the patches.
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There will be less negativity when the game stops recycling the same template for updates since 5.1 and Yoshi-P's team go back to being as communicative and sincere as they were before Shadowbringer's success.
Sorry not sorry. I hate this stupid mentality in the XIV community where complaints are condemned. At best the game's updates have gotten stale. There are enough people not even happy about the MSQ, which used to be a consistently good thing about the game.
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This precludes pretty much any constructive or useful discussion, IMO. You cannot content your way out of a gameplay problem, and FFXIV's issues lie in its gameplay much moreso than its content.
The atrophied, useless husk that remains of FFXIV's core and class gameplay has placed all of the onus for "Are you having fun playing this game?" onto the content in a way that is hopelessly specific and is fundamentally incapable of serving its audience without either drastically and unrealistically increasing the scope of its content production or massively reducing the size of the audience down to the tiny, specific tranches of players that happen to be a perfect fit for the things that are on offer.
It is much more realistic to suggest that FFXIV should overhaul its core and class gameplay to allow any given piece of content to appeal to a much wider range of players across the skill spectrum than it is to suggest that FFXIV should be trying to solve that same problem through brute force by producing 5-7x as much content as it currently does to reach that same range of players with something they find fun and satisfying.
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Qol improvements are like making it easier to order at McDonald’s. It’s great that it’s easier and faster but the food is the same. Nothing in the LL has rekindled faith or interest in the game. Maybe I’ve played too many years.
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Christmas Eve launch for chaotic is an absolutely awful decision.
Relics need to start in X.05 not X.25.
10 years of the same cycle is just not exciting, it’s really not, it’s just business as usual and you’re going to see a very lacklustre response from longtime players until they find a way to bring excitement back.
What that excitement is, is up to them to decide.
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If you aren't a hardcore raider and don't PvP you get:
- ~2 hours of MSQ content (one-time)
- ~1 hour of Hildebrand content at some point, and side-story content at some point (one-time)
- A 24 man you run for 1-1.5 hours once per week.
- Tribal quests you do about 3 weeks then are done with (one-time)
...anything else? Because I'm not seeing anything else. I'm seeing a lot of one-time content, and a once per week 24 man, and 1 more dungeon that's going to be hard again so casuals will hate it.
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At this point I'm convinced that Yoshi P has a bet going on with just how much BS they can get away with while still retaining players
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My sub will run out on Friday. I do not plan to renew it.
The chaotic alliance raid seems interesting but that comes out Christmas.
I love PvP. There is no new PvP rewards.
I have no interest in the story currently.
The alliance raid is exciting for ffxi players. I have not played ffxi.
Maybe I have to wait for a couple patches to accumulate to the resub. I don't know currently.
I expected more.
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The biggest sin of this patch is skipping nidhog for unreal
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Okay, I don't want to bring excessive negativity, but to me that's not enough. Most of the list is just QoL things that don't really have a great impact in 'content delivery'. At least for a player like myself who enjoys action-based content. I'm mostly engaged with High End encounters and stuff that keeps me busy long time (e.g. Eureka).
So far, the only really interesting /in theory/ is the Chaotic Raid, but that's just 01 single encounter. I wonder how much of it I could do before getting burned out of repeating the same thing over and over. The fight's design doesn't seem very innovative, which is kind of odd because they actively advertised that this expansion would elevate that and promote interesting new things, and I'm yet to see any of that.
* Even though I'm interested in high end play, I'm not exactly the demographic for Ultimates on release, because I can't really commit to a static.
So well, to answer the question, I think they should strive to release stuff with a big shelf life as early as possible. One single 24 man Savage-like encounter is not that. The Field Operation is that - and it's the kind of content, along with the relic grind, that they should've delivered in patch 7.0.5 and updated every even patch with a new zone. This is great content because it touches every part of the player spectrum, from the casuals to more hardcore players. Deep Dungeons also do have a similar effect.
We just don't have that kind of thing. While I think quest-based content is cool, it's not enough to feed a player looking for action, especially with Dawntrail's standards where you feel almost as if you're playing a visual novel.
I'm currently unsubbed, but I'll gladly return when the cadence of content is satisfactory, especially for the sub price we pay.
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I’m happy that players are looking forward to it, but I just can’t bring myself to feel any excitement. Most of the stuff you listed is to be expected QOL stuff, which Square purposely holds back on releasing earlier so they can beef up the major patch notes.
1) It is the same patch cycle we have been receiving for like 12 years. It’s tired, predictable and uninspiring.
2) The new “exciting” type of combat is 1 boss battle. The Devs keep mentioning “if players like it, we may make more”….ummm what? May? They need to commit to a new type of new endgame, not release a one off. I don’t think this is enough to fix the content drought players experience, it is just another single fight we will have to repeat for like 6 months.
3) The biggest problem is the schedule of the release content. They announce all this amazing new content for an expansion when announced, and then slowly (very slowly) drip feed it over a few years. The “Grindy” content like field exploration and relic weapons come waaaaaay too late in an expansion lifecycle. This should honestly be live already.
But hey as I said, if players are looking forward to the patch, good for them. I just know If I return I will burn out in the content very fast, as I have experienced it 5 expansions in a row.
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reworking jobs to reverse homogenization and returning to a 3 month patch cycle. the individual patch contents don't matter to me as much as the overarching trajectory of the game.
yeah the reward structure step in the right direction but fundamentally the problems are the same. this fight will have a lifespan of a few weeks before it starts to taper off. this will be the only chaotic fight we get for at least 4.5 months, and likely 9+ months. the cadence is just so slow compared to other games.
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Everything takes way too long to come out, my friends quit or took a break way too soon and I can understand them. There is legit nothing to do if you are a longtime player that has done most of the stuff.
Content that you can not complete in a day or a week needs to come out earlier so people stay engaged to the game. Bring relics earlier to the game and make them hard/grindy so we have atleast something to do besides raiding. This patch update cycle is boring and will kill the playerbase especially when the content we get is lackluster.
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For the time spent in development, it's lacking. Release cycle is poor relative to content's sustainability.
We had roughly 5 months for 7.0 and people found that lacking in content replayability and sustainability. It worked far better with 3 months and with more content overall, but they strayed far away from then.
Patch 7.1 offers nothing for casual players other than 1 dungeon + alliance raid (and hildy if you like it), but those are daily activities and have little to no replay value to keep someone interested, so it banks on PvP to be good for 5 months.
From what they are saying, Chaotic 24 man savage raids isn't for casuals. The 1 ultimate patch applies to a very small portion of the community.
Not to mention the Dec 24 release date, right before Xmas eve. It's not the best time or the smartest time to be releasing content then when they said they wouldn't do that.
I figure Hrothgar and Viera are still suffering from the utter lack of hats after the "graphics update". Female hroth got screwed over with 5 hairstyle choices only.
If they released relics and/or the new exploratory zone earlier, then there will be enough replay value to last a good while.
It really comes down to the poor development cycle. At least there wouldnt be so much burnout from people having nothing but the same content to do if the cycle was shorter and had more content in the past. We don't even get a second dungeon anymore.
They're just wasting development resources trying to make trusts on optional dungeons. Optional dungeons don't need trusts.
I wonder how many people are still waiting for glowing weapons from endwalker trial bosses on sage and reaper... and how many hate not having glowing weapons to look forward to on Viper and Picto for another 2+ years.
I'm not sure if I want to sub past one month with this kind of artificial content delay in the patches.
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Source:https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...patch_and_the/
Bit of a long post but there's a lot of good feedback in here to read through. Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves below. Cheers.
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11-04-2024, 01:38 PMSwordsmanffxivdiscussion: What do you think of the upcoming patch and trajectory of the game?
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11-04-2024, 01:56 PMTurtledeluxe
I think
1. Things like Ultimates and Chaotic raid are nice, but not exactly mass appeal content.
2. Beast tribes are expected and tepid content, and this is exacerbated with DT, since MSQ was all about these tribes and they were kinda boring.
3. Alliance raids are mass appeal content normally but I actually think this one is a tiny bit held back more than normal because not every player has experience with XI and I would argue XI is way more niche than something thst was quite viral and modern like Automata. You didn't have to play Automata to really know what it was.
4. The story content just isn't hitting. I'm pretty sure almost no one wants to talk about Sphene, or see anyone from the MSQ outside maybe Kona. Majority of players are done with DT. That's not to mention I don't think players historically are satisfied by the amount of story we get per patch on average, and the gameplay leaves something to be desired.
Those are some thoughts off the top of my head, but overall I just think this LL was too routine and lacked surprises. Imo it would be better if we had a bigger and more interesting story, a more wide appeal alliance raid, and a tad more midcore content like the exploratory zone that is designed to be fun for a broad amount of players for an extended period. I have a feeling most players are seeing this and thinking they'll do most of it in like a day and then log off for a while. -
11-04-2024, 02:00 PMEraden
Is simple for Mao. Mao came to this game because Mao wanted play mighty mage whats do "stand-and-deliver" with cast times playstyle. At first it was likes that for Mao buts by time Mao got to EW Mao could see game changing away from fights whats allowed for that to DDR. Then Devs began changing BLMs little bits to be more compatible with DDR. In DT Mao seeing Devs doubling down on that and then Mao finally realized game was never gonna be funs for Mao ever agains. When Mao thinkings high fantasy role playing game, Mao nots thinking DDR. Mao thinks of adventures like kind Mao used to run when Mao was Dungeon Master for D&D campaign. Little bits more thinkings and less whirlings around like frogs in blender. Mao doesn't think Devs will ever go backs to old playstyle so Mao going through process of acceptings that and making preparations to permanentsly move on to another game sometime between now and 7.5. Sometimes is just necessary to part ways with a game. Especially if game is changing into something whats no longer funs.
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11-04-2024, 03:45 PMCarin-EriWhilst respect your thoughts and decision.... these forums won't be the same without you! :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraden
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11-04-2024, 04:53 PMHallaremIts why I never enjoyed endgame nor wanted to get deeply into it. As a tank I expected to make tanking decisions, kiting, positioning and more. But instead I'm just a dodging dps blender just like the rest of the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraden
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11-04-2024, 05:27 PMTheRedFox
I agree with a lot of the comments op curated.
The need for the dev team to have more time between patches totally makes sense. But even if I understand the logic, the time feels sooo long. Those additional couple weeks really feel like a massive difference. I really think SE should prioritize giving the team whatever resources they need (whether that's people, space, technology, whatever) to bring back the shorter patch cycles.
We absolutely need more casual or grindy content earlier. Start relic weapons and DoH/DoL tools in X.1, have something Bozja-ish and/or something like the Firmament or Island Sanctuary start as soon as possible.
The lack of general content also makes it a challenge for casual FCs to organize group events. For 7.1 we'll be able to host group runs of the new alliance raid but that's basically the only new thing we'll get. -
11-04-2024, 06:39 PMGurgeh
Awful.
FACT the only people I know (except 4) and that is out of a lot that are still playing are all ultimate raiders, and there are actually a lot of those. An entire CWLS aimed at sprouts, have unsubbed.
The Ultimate raiders they soon moved into savage straight after a shit MSQ now they will soon move onto, ultimate, then they are going to move onto Chaotic ("boo-hoo this is coming too soon after ultimate, we have too much content")
By the way I dont know anyone who did extremes this expansion who don't also do ultimates.
There will be some, but they aren't long time players so I haven't got to meeet them, and I suspect a lot of those will leave after finding the PF culture created by wipes Vs the need to farm... it's not for them.
My group of friends all players for three years or more did extremes and unreal for EW. We are gentle encouraging players. Not a word of judgment or blaming among us.
No one wanted to farm the extreme after being coached through it by very helpful players. I won't guess at the reasons why. (In my case I'm not doing that PF "YOU MUST KNOW XYZ!" with its silent rude 'poof' disbands. I have a solution but that's off topic)
And we cleared unreal and that almost broke us. It took 7 weeks. I was happy to farm with those friends. But I think they were exhausted. It broke us.
None of those players did the Extremes this game. They've been unsubbed ages now.
No one is talking about coming back. They are not interested in the discords. XIV is kind of just another game inn their past.
Yesterday I had a discussion about the Extremes in a discord yesterday. None of the casual gamers commented (they are not interested in XIV anymore), my suggestion was- scrap enrage, or make it triggered by the boss HP not the clock. Allow fights to go on a long time if DPS is poor. But better guarantee that clear.
(This might kill Extreemes, BUT this is the content "I" am missing.)
All of them ultimate raiders.
I'm honestly not interested in making friends in game again. Because if they are casual the game is going to F them off again.
The game is just not for players like us.
The game is unplayable for casual players that don't use lots of mods for the RP scene.
I don't find friends to run content with (those in most cases will just be acquaintances). I want content to run with the friends I have.
After the tone of that conversation I've got no interests in Chaotic. And if it has a time triggered Enrage I doubt im even going to try when I do resub. (I never imagined it but 'when' is sounding more like 'if') - scrap enrage, or make it triggered by the boss HP not the clock. Allow fights to go on a long time if DPS is poor. But better guarantee that clear.
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11-04-2024, 06:42 PMGurgehWhat was I just saying in the comment above. Scrap that F-ing time triggered Enrage. No we don't care how long your 99 totems will take.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWinter
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11-04-2024, 06:45 PMMoqi
I think if they're serious with 8.0 jobs identity, they should start right now to gather feedback so they can actually work on it in the next expansion. If they don't, I'll know it's just PR talk (not that I'm not already convinced that it is).
This is spot on. There are fundamental issues in most of their content, from dungeons to gear, to glamour and housing, and overall there's too little of everything, the pace is a mess and the rewards aren't always exciting. It's unbelievable that the "new" things like Cosmic Exploration and Beastmaster are coming so late. Not to mention all the abandoned systems that make me less excited for what's to come, knowing how little they'll last.Quote:
Qol improvements are like making it easier to order at McDonald’s. It’s great that it’s easier and faster but the food is the same.
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11-04-2024, 07:38 PMovIm
Seeing this one McDonalds line reminds me of something I read on reddit:
The following words are written by reddit user u/Kaella (link to original post), and I claim no ownership of these words. That being said, personally, I see a lot of truth in here, and the post is too good not to share with the world.Quote:
Qol improvements are like making it easier to order at McDonald’s. It’s great that it’s easier and faster but the food is the same.
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I think the issues people have are comprehensive, and deal pretty equally with simplification of gameplay on a class-to-class level, and the smoothing over of certain teamplay-centered mechanics.
I've dropped the word here a couple times before without elaborating, but I would really call it the McDonaldization of the game, in the academic sense.
Nobody really "cooks" at McDonald's. The ingredients come from a central supplier, so that french fries are a uniform width, to the 1/32nd of an inch. The temperatures of the oil in the fryer are prescribed, down to the degree, and the cooking times are prescribed, down to the second. There is an exact, specific process for drawing a milkshake or ice cream cone, down to the angle at which you hold the cup. So nobody learns to cook by working at McDonald's - they only learn how to work at McDonald's. And if you already know how to cook, then that doesn't help you - or hurt you - because "working at McDonald's" is an entirely orthogonal skillset to "cooking."
The Wikipedia article linked above sums up the idea in a more comprehensive way based around four general ideas, but I'd sum it up this way: To McDonald's, the customer-facing goal of McDonaldization is to provide a consistent experience at every location: Whether you are in Chicago, Berlin, Yellowknife, or Sao Paulo, you are supposed to get the same Big Mac, the same fries. The employee-facing goal of McDonaldization is also consistency; by reducing employee agency to "how accurately can you reproduce the explicitly detailed instructions for operating our franchise equipment with our franchise ingredients?", the goal is to produce an environment where if you took eight employees from eight countries around the world who didn't have a common language between them, they could still operate a McDonald's just as consistently and efficiently as if they were all family.
If it's not clear how that relates to FFXIV, then consider the following fairly-uncontroversial statement: FFXIV is designed with "Japanese Party Finder culture" in mind.
The hallmarks of JP PF are pretty well-known: You join the party, maybe throw up a yoroshiku, someone posts the macro, you claim your T1/T2/D1/D2/etc role, and then the fight happens - usually pretty smoothly. And... It works! Every time there's a Lucky Bancho census or any other bit of data about clear rates, you see the same comments: "Wow, clear rates are so much higher on JP than NA/EU." Just as you absolutely cannot make the argument that McDonald's is not an objectively successful business, you absolutely cannot make the argument that FFXIV's current design, when paired with its intended server culture, produces an objectively high rate of successful raid clears.
And to bring that back to the OP: It's really both. McDonald's and FFXIV achieve their desired consistency by reducing the process, of "cooking" or "raiding in an MMO" respectively, to a small number of explicitly-prescribed inputs, such that an invididual's proficiency can be measured by how accurately they followed a standardized procedure.
That notion I described of "nobody learns to cook at McDonald's" is an established pattern that's been observed in a number of fields. When that happens in the workplace, it's called deskilling. And while I don't want to expand this post all the way out into an entire whole-ass essay, a lot of the same principles apply to FFXIV job design, both in terms of internal class gameplay, and cooperative mechanics within a party.
The purpose, in the sense that we're using here, is essentially to remove (or reduce as much as possible) the amount of human variability in the system. If you go to a regular restaurant, there are a lot of ways you can get served bad food. It can be undercooked, overcooked, unevenly cooked, improperly seasoned, the ingredients can be bad, or anything else you've seen on any given episode of Kitchen Nightmares. At a McDonald's, there's really not much room for the staff to mess up, and there's really only one possible mistake they can make: Not following instructions closely enough. In FFXIV, they've removed a lot of ways to mess up: Everything you listed in the OP, dropping Darkside/Greased Lightning/BotD/Enochian/etc, and so on. It's mostly been reduced to how well you can stand in the right place, keep your GCD rolling, and keep your cooldowns aligned. It wouldn't surprise me if 7.0 does something to reduce the reliance on Feint/Reprisal/Addle coordination.
The problem is, basically, that a lot of people just want the same Big Mac every time. Japanese PF groups aren't going to like changes that make their clears less reliable. Even here on r/ffxivdiscussion where people supposedly in love with the FFXIV of yesteryear, I've completely lost count of the number of times I've seen a suggestion about class or encounter mechanics met with the response of "That sounds like a nightmare in PF. No thanks."
To argue against that, you'd really have to go the whole-ass essay route and do a big Intro to Sociology spiel on formal vs substantive rationalization, the importance of considering second-order and third-order effects instead of focusing on immediate short-term metrics, and so on.
If you are of the opinion that there even is a problem, though: Again, it's both. It's a problem that systems and mechanics that produced natural, organic, varied party synergy and teamwork have been removed, and it's a problem that a huge number of this game's classes just don't have enough going on inside their internal kit to stay engaging.
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11-04-2024, 08:32 PMFeina
Don't know about anyone else but I'm really 50/50 on the new Chaotic Alliance Raid. On one hand I honestly hope it's good, but everything I've read about it, and seen from other players comments is that we'll be lucky if the content lasts even more than a month before it dies off.
It's a max of 24 players, but supposedly a party of 12 can complete the required checks. There's an incentive to get more first-time players through the content which is great, but announcing the difficulty will essentially be Savage-esque means there's already a ton of casual/non-raiding players who will be put off & again miss out on new content.
Then with how awkward it is for recruiting in PF for 8-player content, how on earth is it going to work for 12-24 players? Will people even want to wait around for a PF to fill up past 12, or just get straight into the content? Will it eventually die out, and then be relegated to an obscure Discord server to arrange groups?
It's odd as I originally thought they'd be re-releasing the old AR's but reworked to be as they were on release with our full toolkits available & mechanics, not just one boss fight :/ -
11-04-2024, 08:50 PMHallarem
Its the main problem that really strikes any MMO gameplay feel out of this game. Everything is too uniform, safe, without any sharp exciting edges. Sure? Its an MMO socially but gameplay wise its a pretender.
For balancing? Its easy.
Stats? Dont matter
Gear? Just design how it looks and smack in the arbitrary stats.
Materia? Just add the same ones, everyones just gonna use the same ones.
Endgame fight design?
Class design? Flash, no substance. Goodness gracious you introduce some rng to classes or having tanks focus on tanking and healers on healing, kiting mechanics? Positioning the boss just right? instead of this DDR rotation limbo where everyones a dps.
Its designed for people who hate change, and want to eat the same hamburger for 20 years in a row. WEAK and FRIGHTENED game design.
Sweet Twelve if the story is gonna be a similar slop we are in big trouble.
1-2 emotes per every other patch. 2-3 housing items per patch or every other patch. They are really married to their formula and their only saving grace is that they dont have any competition aside from WoW which is a dumpsterfire for other reasons. -
11-04-2024, 08:53 PMKaurhz
Good QoL.
Content generally speaking is in a bad spot, IMO. Raids are great and all for people that thrive in that content, and it's great for people that enjoy that difficulty of content, but I am sorry this MMO takes over half of an expansion cycle to even get breadcrumbs of what MMO content actually should be. - I do want to iterate that I don't want to take anything from raiders, but an MMO should consist of more than just 4-man and 8-man instanced content and arguably 24-man instanced content, or at the very least the MMO style content should be at the forefront. Release the substantive content sooner, add a little teeth to how long it is, and then just allow players to drop in-and-out of that content. Rather than backloading it and making the substance suffer as a result.
I feel they are also having a very rigid outlook on the core systems of the game. We're over a decade in and the core open world content is still FATEs, Hunting, and Gathering. Oh, and Sightseeing logs if you're really pressing yourself. Why is it the only updates have effectively been along the lines of random SS-Ranks. Why is it that after all this time the achievement system has gone largely untouched. Sure, they've added a few Portraits to this, but frankly you get more certificates from unlocking the achievements related to that reward than what the actual cost is.
Achievement hunting has always been 1 of my main activities, but I am at a point where that's putting me in content, e.g., Frontlines which has been so awfully unbalanced because fundamental choices are just being skipped, e.g., AoE damage cap over a certain # of targets. I would go out on a limb and say that had I not had friends/company that are still progressing through the game, then this would likely have been my last expansion in honesty for a while. Probably would've finished my Fishing Log and then took an extended break. I wouldn't expect to stay fully entertained in everything I do, but at the very least I would expect something out of it.
It's not even that they are wasting resources, they are just outright not putting enough resources into what they do, so we end up with all these non-substantive systems that please very few people, despite the fact of them being a fairly well requested feature, or at least something that looks good on paper. -
11-04-2024, 09:53 PMArrius
A shame they didn't announce a shared subscription for XI and XIV for the Alliance release - It definitely would have filled a much-needed gap in the lulls of XIV while keeping the players engaged elsewhere.
Half of my FC would seriously consider trying XI out if this would be the case, just to enjoy it with the gang in times of slow content at XIV.
This would be a ideal marketing move for them. -
11-04-2024, 10:56 PMValenceMost depressing stuff I've ever read, it's very true, but I'm like, the core target audience of that post. I'm Mao's frog in a blender and I don't like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ovIm
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11-04-2024, 11:18 PMHyperiaAll of the content is developed by different teams internally. What they need is more devs so they can have more teams to make more content. It’s simple math, the higher ups are taking most of this games money and devs to work on other content.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedFox
Once they see things getting bad, they will scramble and try to fix it with a brief cash and dev infusion. I’m not certain that will help them at that point as most of the long term players will have moved on.
Long term players are the financial foundation of this game. We don’t move fast or easily but once we start moving, it’s going to be very hard to get us to move back.
I know of two close to me who said DT was going to be the breaking point… they snapped into the first or second zone. 11 years of playing and they just got up and went away.
I’m on a break myself playing other games but, in the past I always felt the twinge to come back. 3.5 months into the break and all I feel is sadness that I don’t have that twinge anymore. -
11-04-2024, 11:26 PMKhryseis_AstraYes, I’d definitely try it out if I didn’t have to pay an extra sub fee. It would be so nice to have some context for the new Alliance raid coming out. I’ll probably just see if there’s any story stuff on YouTube I can watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrius
As someone who’s actually enjoying this expansion (sure I have some nitpicks but who doesn’t? lol), the only suggestion I have is that if the length between patches needs to be longer, then maybe put the first parts of the more grindy activities in earlier? Maybe the first parts of Cosmic Exploration or Shades Triangle could have started with 7.1 instead of whenever they’re planning. But there could be story reasons why they don’t do things like that, idk.
I’m pretty much caught up on everything at this point except my crafting role quests, but I realize I’m probably online more than the average person, and I’m impatient, so it’s probably my own fault I rushed through everything! lol -
11-04-2024, 11:27 PMseolhyun
remember this game ONLY got good because people told them how bad 1.0 was. making excuses for SE like "yoshi says play other games" or "this is how its always been" will never make the game better.
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11-05-2024, 12:11 AMSheriyanaPreach QueenQuote:
Originally Posted by seolhyun
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11-05-2024, 12:44 AMForteNightshade
I believe I already posted in that thread myself but I mostly echo the same sentiment many of the comments outlined. At this point, I'm only subbed because Ultimate is on the horizon, I have a house and a few friends from a FC I started hanging around invited me to their venue parties. Figured I'd poke around that scene and see what all the fuss is about. On the whole though, I've been playing BG3 since early October and hardly looked at XIV unless a friend asks to run roulettes. I just have very little drive to play because there's so little to do. I've leveled almost every job save the few I don't like (they're still nearly 100 by now), I've cleared Savage since week 1, farmed the EXs and have long finished any backlog except for side quests that I really don't care about. Not to say the stories are bad they kind of need motivation to feel engaging.
7.1 is dropping in a week and it's almost comical how little there is in the supposed "main" patch itself. If I bother, I'll have everything done on Tuesday then it's right back to waiting around. They desperately need to expediate the relic weapon or something. It's ridiculous DT, just like EW and Shadowbringers before it, will be nearly a year old before any actual grind is on offer. -
11-05-2024, 01:09 AMRaim
They need to expedite either the foray, V&C, relics and/or DD into future .1 or launch patches. The content is too backloaded into expansions. There isn't enough for casual and midcore players near launch and its all just raiding focused. The content 'is' there but their pacing and schedule is atrocious. On top of being the most controversial MSQ yet its just resulting in a lot of people taking extended breaks.
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11-05-2024, 01:17 AMZaniel
I think fundamentally the content cycle is the same as Shadowbringers and Endwalker, changes here and there to be sure, but basically the same. HOWEVER, I enjoyed that in ShB and EW, I didn't mind the cycle, I made my own fun and I find grinding therapeutic. I played ShB and EW with no breaks all the way through, logged in almost every single day for those two whole expansions and never felt bored.
This time is different, the DT MSQ has poisoned the well (for me).
It's like seeing someone hack up all over your favourite pizza. It's still the same pizza but I ain't eating that. The incredulous annoyance (maybe even anger) I felt regarding the MSQ means I have lost that feeling of character and a lived-in-world I am interested in, I'm dislocated from my WoL. So it doesn't matter if the content delivery is the same, I just feel little to no enthusiasm to engage with it. -
11-05-2024, 02:46 AMForteNightshadeI think another factor, at least for me, on top of this is people are simply getting tired of the same formula again and again with very little deviation. Ironically, the Chinese director literally warned about this, saying they needed another major shake up like how Shadowbringers changed job design from Stormblood. Instead, we got what amounts to 15$ DLC in the form of a job update and yet another retread of that same aforementioned formula. Now I do think they could have push through if the story had been good but that being such a underwhelming mess meant they no longer had anything to mask the growing stagnation and deficiencies of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaniel
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11-05-2024, 03:02 AMTurtledeluxeThis is something I have commented on before and I think it's likely quite common. Given that XIV's reputation hinges so closely on its story, it's likely that a signiciant number of players tolerated the subscription/ content ratio for a long while simply based on how well the story execution was going. Now that it isn't, people aren't liking what they're seeing without the rose tinted glasses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaniel
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11-05-2024, 03:42 AMElissar
Imagine if one day you wake up and Kate Beckinsale is making your breakfast dressed as Selene
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/79/9a/d6/7...cce7b859d6.jpg
Then you discover that you married her last night. Now imagine that you will eat the same breakfast for 100years without any change. Even her facial expressions will be the same like a clock.
Eventually you will reach a place where you will ask yourself if you really married a person or JOI from bladerunner 2049
https://media.tenor.com/INJa0-8NegMA...laderunner.gif
Sorry, at least JOI evolved and changed more than the current FFXIV
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Jokes aside, combat is very creative in DT, really, the combat team deserves every compliment. However, dungeon design is the same thing, the cycle of itemization is the same thing...there is no customization/personalization in any level. I leveled up a viper expecting something different..first patch they removed +10% dmg that you had to apply during your 1-2-3....now literally feels like a cheap Reaper.
it's like eating the same cake every day with some twist in here and there. Still the same cake, and you are still eating it. -
11-05-2024, 04:03 AMShougunWont say there is no content, but I do have to chime in at the angle that I think they don't do a great job with casual content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurgeh
By that I mean, sure we have quests, but they're all very very cliche in design. Sure there is FATEs and stuff, but again, massively cliche. There are tribe quests, just an extension of cliche quests in general. We got an Island, which is super pretty, but the gameplay design? Accounting and stock broker wet dream, perhaps, but not very well gameplay'd. There's a Saucer but unless you're new the only content is going to be a massive grind, better to be done passively / make it rain.
Yet, if we talk high end. They will design drop dead gorgeous fights with unique and fairly innovative concepts. "ITS NOT INNOVAT--" shh.. shh.. this is my opinion lol. I respect that some people wish for more, but having tried the other two (imo) main competitors, FFXIV doesn't skimp on the boss fights. Great music, great visuals, good design, fairly intuitive vanilla feedback that doesn't HAVE TO HAVE mods unlike some other games (though we certainly do have a modding scene).
So I would say that FFXIV has skated by on some bare minimum casual content for quite a while. Using the same systems and concepts, and when bringing something new (like Island), will use the bare minimum on gameplay. In order to compare, you can say that WoW's Garrison is akin to our Island, which the guide to that content will fill at least 20 pages, many pages being UNIQUE tasks, ours is going to be two pages describing how to miff your pokeballs at animals and play the stock exchange. When WoW added a farm, for the hells of it, they made a planting game that turned into Plants Vs Zombies.
My dead horse drum *gameplay roleplay* is weak here, and that in my mind is what plays into casual content. When I go catch an animal in sanctuary, why wasn't it a mini-game? Heck you could have re-used some of your saucer mini-games and reskinned it-- instead it's just right click watch. I assume there are some people who actually like playing spreadsheets on the workshop, but does anyone honestly think that is a majority or even second majority ideal task?
The amount of people who sincerely got excited to play the workshop board is probably LESS than the amount of people who play and succeed at ultimate. Because I'm salting my drums anyways I guess, I will add Blue Mage here. People say 'but you cantz its TOO HARD' but I can point out a decent amount of abilities in WoW that are either better than or at least very similar to a classic blue mage spell, like "WE CANT DEATH A MONSTER" and WoW's monk is like "lol, yes we can", "WE CANT INGORE DAMAGE AS A NON-TANK" says FFXIV while Mage in WoW is like "I can, and I will do it better than you". "We can't have unique pet jobs in this game!!" (beastmaster) meanwhile WoW is sitting with two (three if you count Unholy DK) that summon 15 imps and some other (unique) demons (far more unique than our summons), or hunter where each archetype has a clear and powerful impact to your role and you can have two out at the same time (more depending on spec).
FFXIV says cant a lot, especially for casual stuff.
FFXIV will put its money, and with good result (imo), into hard content, but it would be nice to see them be able to do something like that to us plebs that don't make up the 20-30% (savage) and 0-10% (ultimate) of the population sometimes (those populations will also likely play the normal stuff too, as well). Anyway, does SE make casual content, sure, SE will also hand the end bits sometimes (like savage EPIC Echo), SE isn't doing nothing, and I am not claiming that, but it's obvious their talent or at least talent focus is set at the end specifically and when they do something for the mid to casual players they do an 'okay' job at it and then will probably use that 'okay' response from the audience as why its not worth it. "You asked for a cake!! I MADE YOU A CAKE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT" I imagine they say, but its like "I asked for some good food.. you made me a vanilla cake without frosting and no decorations, I can get this from the dollar store". Even when you get something substantial in time investment, like let's say a relic- its still going to use the same ol systems as before that are very basic (say WoW did things like our open world relic quests before, but their open world has more varied gameplay than ours, not to mention also better navigation given their movement is more interactive).
End note, I'm a bit hyperbolic- I don't think the game is awful as you might end the idea with lol. But I do believe there is a clear asset bias, a strong rigidity to structure, a strong reticence to do anything too unique, and at least in this circumstance I can point that say WoW or GW2 don't bias their assets exclusively to the end like it 'feels' like FFXIV does.
I also want to say these things are complex, and one thing that might be possible is that they do assign a number of people to these contents but the toolset is not very good. They tell the world team to make a bunch of cool stuff, so they come up with the best they can with "go kill x and talk to y" tools they're provided. Just like the housing system /could/ be that they're doing the best they can and are constantly spending resources on it (the decorations are REALLY good), but the tools are not really good. Perhaps SE is having a huge /tool/ problem and they are not providing their team with the mechanics to actually provide depth. Or who knows.. Just saying I don't lol. But I do know that I feel they are neglecting basic systems and I do feel they spend a lot of time and brain power on end game stuff. I don't want them to take it away per say, but I'd love to feel they're doing that else where lol. I'm shocked our quest quality is still the same as quite a few years ago. I just played WoW recently to 80 and the variety of tasks was substantially higher, even though of course there are still kill x quests.
Also strongly related feeling to the above for me. Identity, roleplay, these things are lacking, and each patch / expansion seem to lack even more rather than improve. Please do make feedback, new thread, whatever... here has been mine so far: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Other-MMOs%29Quote:
Originally Posted by Moqi
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11-05-2024, 04:44 AMKeumjo
They could easily make old content flourish if they revisited loot tables. Some content people haven't done because there is no reward they want from it. You can easily get more out of current content between patches by jazzing up what we have now. Put in rotational exclusive rewards in Fates/Bozja/Eureka/Deep Dungeons/Treasure Dungeons much like they do Mog Tome stuff. It doesn't even have to be all huge items, it could be the good dyes that go for 100,000s or stuff like that. It's bonkers to me that they would rather LOSE PAYING PLAYERS by telling them to go play something else, instead of giving them a reason to stay subbed.
Value our time like you value our money, SE. You dillweeds. -
11-05-2024, 04:47 AMDerio
I think they should have done job design first and encounter design second. They said they didnt want to do it this way because they wanted us to be used to the encounter design but people desperately wanted job design to be done first and that would give people a whole expansion to get used to the changes.
For many people the 7.1 patch will come down to the MSQ and how fun and repeatable the 24 man is. All the other content are very niche and appeal to the EX difficulty and higher crowd. -
11-05-2024, 07:03 AMTalael
Terrible. They should just skip Tural and go back to Eorzea, at least theres fun to be had there. Tural is a extremely disappointing good for nothing place. I have zero interest in any characters there, everything is self contained, have not mystery, no sauce. I dont give a F about whats to be done about Solution 9 now that annoying AI dissipated.
Also i hate old content with a shade of new. Instead of Cloud of Darkness, we could had Emperor Matheus from FF 2, if really needed to make a new 24 man trial. CoD could easily stole Byakkos unreal place :rolleyes:. FF 11 raid looks ugly with ugly rewards. -
11-05-2024, 07:04 AMValence
They have yet to do encounter design..
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11-05-2024, 10:57 AMMortex
I’m a savage and ultimate raider and even I still find this patch lacking in casual content. It’s nice having ultimate and a chaos raid for like some months but after this we still do the same slop for 2-3 months.
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11-05-2024, 11:45 AMKageTokage
XIV's setting as a whole presently feels way too sanitized and devoid of threats/conflicts for me to feel terribly invested in it anymore.
The general job and encounter design has also just gotten stale and I feel like they need to take a more...dynamic approach to things over everything operating on a largely fixed timeline when it comes to both rotations and mechanics because it makes repetition of content become tedious that much faster. -
11-05-2024, 02:54 PMHypnotic13371337
With how little was in at launch and how long it'll take for things like DD, relics, that cosmos thing, the Bozja-like, ect... It feels like buying the expansion was more like pre ordering for when the real game stuff gets here.
Like they havent been working on it AT ALL until the next x.2 patch is the next one to come out, and then its the last thing in that patch to release -
11-06-2024, 02:43 AMMeteor-Panda
For me l don't understand why they still make the game like a 90's game still.
The maps are beautiful...heres 4 tigers running around HERE. Here is 6 rams scattered around HERE. No interaction, just plop them with your mouse from the library of assets and have them wonder around a fixed zone. No world building. The graphics update suffered so much for their boring ways. I noticed they stopped having mobs from fates drop items, forcing players to use gems towards resources and extending the fate farm for the mounts every little bit further. Why.
The drop rate of mob items is deplorable. You can go to dry bones and farm aldgoats running around and it's FUN you get mats for everything! Alch, cooking, leather, etc ....whats DT? Kill 10 plant mobs for a shot at 1 item? They don't want you to interact with the map at all. Go in. do quest, do hunt, do fate, leave.
The game got too safe, too stale. They tell you to take breaks but then if you do they take your house lol.
I've played since ARR...lm just not interested in the game anymore and if Yoshi has indeed stopped listening and we get the same garbage of launch, lm gone. My friends all left. -
11-06-2024, 01:10 PMElizabetha
I'm afraid the game isn't going to get better. There is a parasitic process occurring. FF14 makes the money, but FF14 doesn't get much of the money it makes.
Unfortunately... as with so many things in end-stage capitalism, the only voice you have is your money.
Silence is the only thing a corporation can hear over the sounds of it eating plates of greasy money.
I'm going silent with my FF dollar.
I honestly wish I hadn't stayed as long as I have. I should have quit while it was fun. As it stands, the majority of my memories of FF14 will not be positive.
Gamers have been brow-beaten by the very companies they support into accepting garbage. How did the industry get here? -
11-06-2024, 01:12 PMIvoryHawk
i'm just waiting for my sub to run out, i'll be back when moral improves