It really isn't hard to fix frontlines...

I mean, if they make it so that only the first person that hits a player does full damage to the player, and they get 95% damage reduction against everyone else, it would likely stop the constant fishing and baiting tactics and get people to actually engage.

With everyone doing near full damage there's no way for anyone to really do anything meaningful.

Thats because it's a strategy game, not a dueling game. Whoever is most organized wins. Like in a war, positioning and choosing targets is key.

You get used to it. I would suggest:

- Keeping with the alliance.
- Keeping behind the alliance.
- Only running ahead for brief moments when you have a lot of mitigation (ie. tank invuln or bubble) to draw the enemy attention at you, then have a plan to get behind the alliance quick.
- Only straying from the alliance if you're reasonably confident you won't run into an alliance of enemies ie. to solo a crystal, defend something from another solo player, click something alone to secure it. Have escape plan.
- Only stray if you're actually good enough to fend off 2-3 enemy players, which is possible.

Now I do understand your struggle because when I started doing Frontline, I just got caught up in the PvP and then my alliance ran off to the objective without me noticing, leaving me to get destroyed. I enjoy the actual killing aspect of PvP, not the objectives, but if you do Frontline you have to focus on the objectives and strategies or you'll get killed.

If you want raw PvP, Crystalline Conflict is about as close as you'll get to it, but in that case you can still only hold out so long against the other 5 players before you need some backup.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I mean, if they make it so that only the first person that hits a player does full damage to the player, and they get 95% damage reduction against everyone else, it would likely stop the constant fishing and baiting tactics and get people to actually engage.

With everyone doing near full damage there's no way for anyone to really do anything meaningful.

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Given you frequently see 8 players pounding on the same invulnerable PLD, I doubt this would help.

The easiest most effective fix, is to limit parties to 2 people. And keep 'everyone' in lobby, making up parties and alliances, only once everyone is loaded and ready to go, to force mixup.
There is a lot of coordination (I suspect supported by mods that are back end coordinating attacks between players.)

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Given you frequently see 8 players pounding on the same invulnerable PLD, I doubt this would help.

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Sadly it's quite an hassle to tab-rotate through targets and hope that it lands on what you desired.

And trying to click the specific target isn't that easy either when there's 70 of them on screen. ;)

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Sadly it's quite an hassle to tab-rotate through targets and hope that it lands on what you desired.

And trying to click the specific target isn't that easy either when there's 70 of them on screen. ;)

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YEah controller has the advantage here.
Although.... There probably is something similar you can do for mouse.
I use

• Movement Settings: 'Legacy Type'
  Auto-target according to priority - 'Line of Sight'
  Enable full auto target
  Target Closest enemies Type 2: Cone

Controller now has auto select and commit action if nothing at all targeted (surely mouse and key board has some similar)
I very rarely use tab targetting in PvP
Its line of sight-cone , select. And deselect and try again on the rare occasions I get the previous wrong.
I play didstance WHM, and PLD mele. Works for both.
My targeting is pretty impeccable. Certainly passable.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Thats because it's a strategy game, not a dueling game. Whoever is most organized wins. Like in a war, positioning and choosing targets is key.

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I think that's one thing that a lot of people seem to forget. It's pvp yes but it's also a strategic pvp. If you don't have a strategical mind if you will of how you're going to do the objectives then you'll most likely not win a lot.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Sadly it's quite an hassle to tab-rotate through targets and hope that it lands on what you desired.

And trying to click the specific target isn't that easy either when there's 70 of them on screen. ;)

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I'd agree targeting is clunky.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

The easiest most effective fix, is to limit parties to 2 people. And keep 'everyone' in lobby, making up parties and alliances, only once everyone is loaded and ready to go, to force mixup.
There is a lot of coordination (I suspect supported by mods that are back end coordinating attacks between players.)

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No, reducing the party limit even further is not going to "fix" Frontlines. The "mods" you think are helping people coordinate attacks are already in the game and they are called User Macros.

The only fix Frontlines needs is punishing leechers. Matches are infested with people who "afk" or throw the match because there is zero punishment while they collect their free exp and tomes solely from pressing join on the duty finder.

Rule number 1: DON'T Die!!!

Rule Number 2: Do the objectives

Rule Number 3: Engage the other team if it is engaged by the third team.

Rule Number 4: Run

Flank King or whatever they claim themself to be is really not that good if you take away their advantages and you can do such but moving back and forth... forcing them to stretch and run more after has a serious downside for them... if can do it with a certain spread... you will really blow their cover... DRK's are the characters you want to sacrefice in PvP for going after the objectives instead and as it is now and ever... it makes everyone on same team very unsafe as well.

Curb the AoE damage, and have it so that the number of targets are capped, and it is %-based damage based on number of people hit, e.g., full damage for first target, 75% for second and then 50% for all subsequent attacks, this would be the biggest change I would make, as I personally find it's a bit much with the amount of AoE stacking going on, it doesn't really work well in game mods that have 71 other people. There's no grand 700IQ play going on with what people are doing. Giving 95% damage reduction for all subsequent people that just hit is far too much.

I'm not some amazing gamer following some elite strategy or having unparalleled organization by simply following a DRK and seeing when they sprint in to pop Salted Earth, and then following up with all my AoEs to burn down a lot of players.

Generally speaking though a lot of it is just people needing more situational awareness and not playing too lethargically.

Remove Battle high from first place, reduce or remove points for players killed on modes that are about capture/destroy the flag so no one gets fed by bad players or ppl who try to speed up the matches by loosing on purpose (IE yellow and blue fight and one gets decimated till the other has battle high before we could even reach there).

Create more modes, basically large scale CC where only the kills matters and maybe the map rotates with hazards or something... but leave modes where kills dont count. Or at very least, dont let deaths reduce our points... Especially Onsai drags WAY too long because of that.

"Fixing Frontlines" implies it's not working as intended, which, at least as far as I can tell, it is. It's a game of three-way murder mob. The team with the most coordination and through that the most battle high wins. It's not a fluke or a mistake that this means the person or team that steps up to use Alliance Chat to direct the murder mob and give them clear objectives and directions tends to be the team that wins. Always keep the map open and keep an eye on the score and be ready to react to it quickly. I'm not saying it's the coolest pvp ever, by any means, but I wouldn't say it's broken. It's a team game for a reason and the fastest way to die is to not stick with the team, which is very easy to do if you get distracted easily or fixate on one objective at the cost of others (ask me how I know). But the PvP community I've encountered has been happy to help people learn how to play better. I would not call myself a great pvp player by any means, but the player made pvp guides out there definitely helped me die less and have a clearer idea of what my priorities should be over the match. Stuff like that.


Shatter map still sucks though. I wanted them to fix it and then their "fix" just made even worse.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I'd agree targeting is clunky.

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Sadly, while we often agree, in this case - I would disagree- for a PvP game, it's atrocious. I think we're just learned how to compensate as best we can, given that we've had the benefit of prior experience, I genuinely feel bad for anyone who's never PvPed and starts with this game.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Remove Battle high from first place, reduce or remove points for players killed on modes that are about capture/destroy the flag so no one gets fed by bad players or ppl who try to speed up the matches by loosing on purpose (IE yellow and blue fight and one gets decimated till the other has battle high before we could even reach there).

Create more modes, basically large scale CC where only the kills matters and maybe the map rotates with hazards or something... but leave modes where kills dont count. Or at very least, dont let deaths reduce our points... Especially Onsai drags WAY too long because of that.

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1) So you're asking for large-scale deathmatches- no thanks, not interesting, not easy to balance for either. You'd likely end up with some boring meta like zombie teams of PLDs just out-surviving everyone else. (2) Then you have the "kills don't count" - well I don't find FL "drags"- I respect your opinion. If you want super-quick matches, you have CC. I find CC too short, that's one reason why I don't particularly like it. I also want people incentivized not to die, maybe there's a better way to teach team that it hurts there team- but I feel that its should in some way- if not by points, then throw a debuff on the player.

Finally- you're talking about "reduce or remove points for players killed on modes that are about capture/destroy the flag so no one gets fed by bad players or ppl who try to speed up the matches by loosing on purpose" - there is a way to deal with players who try to lose on purpose but most people don't want to do it- it's called kicking or reporting them. You know, game designers might be able to help, but fundamentally, it's a community issue- the community should be dealing with people who AFK in spawn, or who get killed on purpose over and over, or who encourage others not to try, or to feed - and not ignoring that behaviour.

only things in FL that really need to be looked at is : premade. a premade shouldn't be tagged against random pug. even a premade of 2-4 ppl on vocal can wipe a whole alliance.

I truly believe they have no idea how degenerate western FL is as evidenced by them changing Shatter from JP feedback.

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Originally Posted by Mecia

I truly believe they have no idea how degenerate western FL is as evidenced by them changing Shatter from JP feedback.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they saw posts about things like the RMT win trading and "bounty" services and automatically assumed they were fake.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Sadly, while we often agree, in this case - I would disagree- for a PvP game, it's atrocious. I think we're just learned how to compensate as best we can, given that we've had the benefit of prior experience, I genuinely feel bad for anyone who's never PvPed and starts with this game.

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That's fair. I guess I've got so used to the various compromises and workarounds one has to employ that I've forgotten what an acceptable targeting system should look like.