New player wanting to get into PVP - Please advise?

Hello! c:

So I just picked up the game a little over two months ago or so. Now that I've finished the MSQ, I'd really like to delve into PVP! My problem; I really want to play SCH, rather than run some of the more meta jobs, but everything I've seen in videos about PVP in XIV makes it look super fast paced to the point I'm not sure if dedicated healers are as much of an asset as they are in PVE content.

• Is healing less viable than other roles in this mode?
  
• Am I going to be holding back whichever team I'm on by playing healer? I'd really hate to ruin things for others by getting in the way...
  
• What are some tips or general advice you'd give to someone wanting to heal in Frontline/Rival Wings/CC? Is there anything important to know that I might not pick up on from guides or videos on the subject?

I'd really appreciate anything anyone can share that'd make me suck less! I want to learn!

Healing matters. Just not as much as the pve counterpart.

The devs made changes to where everyone is responsible for keeping themselves alive. Recuperate is the ultimate ability since everyone is able to heal themselves at least once, and the elixer just makes it possible to do so once again. This was an attempt to delete roles entirely from pvp. However, Recuperate is just too powerful. Healing is the ultimate defense currency. So to some degree healers will be relied on, especially when it comes to the case of crystal conflict. So to answer your 2nd question, no. You're not holding anyone back. Jsut know your strengths and weaknesses.

In the case of SCH they're not like the other healers. They don't have a strong heal without the limit break. They don't have any access to crowd control. They're more of a stat-check class that spreads blessings (shields/dmg up) and curses (dmg dn/dot). That's the best way I can personally describe it. Crystal Conflict you might struggle a little trying to make SCH while you don't have a limit break available. Frontlines you can easily be on top of the damage board despite the meta being what it currently is.

I think you should be able to quickly catch on. My only tip to you as a new player is to watch your positioning, especially in frontlines. Watch where you are compared to everyone else. It makes learning a lot easier.

There is no "healer" role in pvp. Everyone mostly takes care of themselves and you are a dps with a few tools to support your team.

Every job in CC is viable. Scholar does require your team to be somewhat competent and make use of its pressure though.

I wouldn't play it in rival wings, it's kit just doesn't work very well for it.

It's a pretty weak job in frontlines as well if you're not stacking 6-8 of them, but if you don't know what's going on then it works well enough to make you feel like you're being effective.

Scholar is a very peculiar job in pvp but if you vibe with it it can definitely work out well. I'd say it's probably one of the chillest jobs in pvp. Very armchair general vibe, spread dots and shields around, think about positioning, go in when it's safe. In FLs, spread the plague like there is no tomorrow. In Crystalline, you'll have to get a bit more up and physical but that's every job that has a duty to rotate and support the team on the crystal.

While it's good to know what your job can do at any times, learning in all pvp modes is actually more about learning the universals, like positioning, when to go in, when to go out, how to use and when to use guard, recuperate, etc. Don't underestimate that knowledge, even if it's not completely tied to your job toolkit, it's the most important knowledge to amass.

Healer main (for cc) here that has played in tourneys, LP in general, and crystal for multiple seasons.

All healers are viable and are USUALLY semi-mandatory. CC tends to be fast paced, but there's usually time to squeeze in a heal or two on someone getting burst, but more importantly, all three of the healers can do a pretty decent amount of damage.

WHM: The usual autoinclude. Job is busted because of poly and LB. Has a lot of damage and pretty good healing, as well as a really good purify and poly just exists. Never grief.
AST: Good for pure healing. Benefic is an insanely potent heal and macrocosmos is both great damage as well as good healing if you can pop it before the person dies. Cards are pretty nice, and the bind on gravity is very useful. LB is a bit iffy to use in ranked, but still gets value.
SGE: It's a dps. It is a dps that pumps damage HARD and has pneuma, which is a really good defensive layer. The shields are meh but they exist. LB is extremely strong but can be difficult to manage optimally. The raw damage output is countered by its health, so arguably the hardest to execute on.
SCH: Pressure job. Scholar's entire gameplay loop is flipping off the enemy team. Expedience is a good skill all around, the 8% adlo damage up is decent since it's player based, and the 8% bio damage down is really good if you spread it to the entire team. Mummy is the strongest heal down in the game, and an adlo-buffed expediented bio is also pretty good dot damage. Seraph is also an insanely strong lb if used correctly-- breaking a good seraph adlo expedience setup, especially if you have another healer or defense-giving job on hand, is very difficult-- an aoe automatic cc cleanse is good. Scholar can also be surprisingly tanky, at least in ranked. In LP it's still fairly tanky for a healer but you can still get 1gcd'd.

Scholar in particular I can say was probably my easiest top hundred grind of all the jobs I've played because I click with it and solo queue players forget to deal with it. So long as you understand that spreading bio is usually better than adlo and when adlo is a gain (usually when you cant bio more than 3 people)

If you want more resources or tips, you could join revival and ask around. my discord for instance is currently joebidensgreatesthits, and we also have other job players you can ask.

Que syncing with someone more experienced than you and/or occasionally recording a game that someone more experienced than you can roast is a great way to make rapid improvement when starting off.

Its how I got my start years ago and how I coach anyone asking me for help.

Don't know if you have done competitive PvP un other MMOs in the past but you shouldn't underestimate its difficulty and time consumption as it is generally some of the (if not the) most difficult content you will ever play in MMO games.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

There is no "healer" role in pvp. Everyone mostly takes care of themselves and you are a dps with a few tools to support your team.

Every job in CC is viable. Scholar does require your team to be somewhat competent and make use of its pressure though.

I wouldn't play it in rival wings, it's kit just doesn't work very well for it.

It's a pretty weak job in frontlines as well if you're not stacking 6-8 of them, but if you don't know what's going on then it works well enough to make you feel like you're being effective.

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You forgot to link your guide, honey.

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Originally Posted by Degunuts

Healer main (for cc) here that has played in tourneys, LP in general, and crystal for multiple seasons.

All healers are viable and are USUALLY semi-mandatory. CC tends to be fast paced, but there's usually time to squeeze in a heal or two on someone getting burst, but more importantly, all three of the healers can do a pretty decent amount of damage.

WHM: The usual autoinclude. Job is busted because of poly and LB. Has a lot of damage and pretty good healing, as well as a really good purify and poly just exists. Never grief.
AST: Good for pure healing. Benefic is an insanely potent heal and macrocosmos is both great damage as well as good healing if you can pop it before the person dies. Cards are pretty nice, and the bind on gravity is very useful. LB is a bit iffy to use in ranked, but still gets value.
SGE: It's a dps. It is a dps that pumps damage HARD and has pneuma, which is a really good defensive layer. The shields are meh but they exist, as does the LB. The raw damage output is countered by its health, so arguably the hardest to execute on.
SCH: Pressure job. Scholar's entire gameplay loop is flipping off the enemy team. Expedience is a good skill all around, the 8% adlo damage up is decent since it's player based, and the 8% bio damage down is really good if you spread it to the entire team. Mummy is the strongest heal down in the game, and an adlo-buffed expediented bio is also pretty good dot damage. Seraph is also an insanely strong lb if used correctly-- breaking a good seraph adlo expedience setup, especially if you have another healer or defense-giving job on hand, is very difficult-- an aoe automatic cc cleanse is good.

Scholar in particular I can say was probably my easiest top hundred grind of all the jobs I've played because I click with it and solo queue players forget to deal with it. So long as you understand that spreading bio is usually better than adlo and when adlo is a gain (usually when you cant bio more than 3 people)

If you want more resources or tips, you could join revival and ask around. my discord for instance is currently joebidensgreatesthits, and we also have other job players you can ask.

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top sage NA

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

You forgot to link your guide, honey.

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Is it not in my signature?

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Is it not in my signature?

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I'm not currently seeing your .sig

And my settings show sigs. How odd.

One of the best ways to get good (and have fun doing it) is to play with friends. See if your FC wants to come with, and definitely join some of the PvP discords. There's a ton of events going on between Rival Wings and Frontlines queue syncs that could give you some good experience and good vibes.

The two big ones to join would be:
discord.gg/pvprimal
discord.gg/pvprevival

Welcome to the party, man!

Just dont :P thank me later

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

There is no "healer" role in pvp. Everyone mostly takes care of themselves and you are a dps with a few tools to support your team.

Every job in CC is viable. Scholar does require your team to be somewhat competent and make use of its pressure though.

I wouldn't play it in rival wings, it's kit just doesn't work very well for it.

It's a pretty weak job in frontlines as well if you're not stacking 6-8 of them, but if you don't know what's going on then it works well enough to make you feel like you're being effective.

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Olivia, I understand you run with 3 astro as DRK and dont need heal but there is healer class and astrologian is dumb potent I always heal everyone in PVP and save hella people.

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Originally Posted by FROSTEDFLAKE

Olivia, I understand you run with 3 astro as DRK and dont need heal but there is healer class and astrologian is dumb potent I always heal everyone in PVP and save hella people.

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Can confirm an emergency heal when I'm getting out of the mess covered in SCH juice saves me a lot.

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Originally Posted by FROSTEDFLAKE

Olivia, I understand you run with 3 astro as DRK and dont need heal but there is healer class and astrologian is dumb potent I always heal everyone in PVP and save hella people.

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I'm not saying you have no healing or that healing isn't useful. It's just a side responsibility that is included as part of their support.

No one should be thinking they died because a healer didn't heal them. Your life is your responsibility and healers can save you in an emergency is what I'm getting at.

Thank you so much for all the replies, everyone! I really appreciate all of you helping me out, all of these responses were super helpful. I think I've got a much better idea of my role and objectives now! c:

Last night I tried running a few times with a couple friends and it was so much fun! I've still got a ways to go before I'm good at these modes, but I feel a lot more confident in queueing up to practice now! I'm looking forward to trying more of it!

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Originally Posted by Degunuts

Healer main (for cc) here that has played in tourneys, LP in general, and crystal for multiple seasons.

All healers are viable and are USUALLY semi-mandatory. CC tends to be fast paced, but there's usually time to squeeze in a heal or two on someone getting burst, but more importantly, all three of the healers can do a pretty decent amount of damage.

WHM: The usual autoinclude. Job is busted because of poly and LB. Has a lot of damage and pretty good healing, as well as a really good purify and poly just exists. Never grief.
AST: Good for pure healing. Benefic is an insanely potent heal and macrocosmos is both great damage as well as good healing if you can pop it before the person dies. Cards are pretty nice, and the bind on gravity is very useful. LB is a bit iffy to use in ranked, but still gets value.
SGE: It's a dps. It is a dps that pumps damage HARD and has pneuma, which is a really good defensive layer. The shields are meh but they exist. LB is extremely strong but can be difficult to manage optimally. The raw damage output is countered by its health, so arguably the hardest to execute on.
SCH: Pressure job. Scholar's entire gameplay loop is flipping off the enemy team. Expedience is a good skill all around, the 8% adlo damage up is decent since it's player based, and the 8% bio damage down is really good if you spread it to the entire team. Mummy is the strongest heal down in the game, and an adlo-buffed expediented bio is also pretty good dot damage. Seraph is also an insanely strong lb if used correctly-- breaking a good seraph adlo expedience setup, especially if you have another healer or defense-giving job on hand, is very difficult-- an aoe automatic cc cleanse is good. Scholar can also be surprisingly tanky, at least in ranked. In LP it's still fairly tanky for a healer but you can still get 1gcd'd.

Scholar in particular I can say was probably my easiest top hundred grind of all the jobs I've played because I click with it and solo queue players forget to deal with it. So long as you understand that spreading bio is usually better than adlo and when adlo is a gain (usually when you cant bio more than 3 people)

If you want more resources or tips, you could join revival and ask around. my discord for instance is currently joebidensgreatesthits, and we also have other job players you can ask.

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This was particularly useful! I really appreciate you taking the time to write this all up for me!

Also keep in mind that the more support a job is about, the more difficulty and nebulous it is going to gauge your contribution at key moments and over the whole game, especially in crystalline conflict, unlike with a carry job. This will come with experience, but it still remains relatively hard, and ultimately, you do rely a lot more on your team mates. Scholar is probably the biggest support focused job in the roster. Some key points to scrutinize after games is when and how you did use Mummy, and how many targets you managed to cover with spreads (and good LB use too ofc).

Once you feel confident enough I'd suggest trying jobs on the other end of the roster, probably melees that tend to teach you all the basics for crystalline, unlike ranged jobs. Even if you don't main melees, it's important to have an idea of what they do entail, as it will make you way better at ranged too.

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Originally Posted by FROSTEDFLAKE

Just dont :P thank me later

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Very helpful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Degunuts

Healer main (for cc) here that has played in tourneys, LP in general, and crystal for multiple seasons.

All healers are viable and are USUALLY semi-mandatory. CC tends to be fast paced, but there's usually time to squeeze in a heal or two on someone getting burst, but more importantly, all three of the healers can do a pretty decent amount of damage.

WHM: The usual autoinclude. Job is busted because of poly and LB. Has a lot of damage and pretty good healing, as well as a really good purify and poly just exists. Never grief.
AST: Good for pure healing. Benefic is an insanely potent heal and macrocosmos is both great damage as well as good healing if you can pop it before the person dies. Cards are pretty nice, and the bind on gravity is very useful. LB is a bit iffy to use in ranked, but still gets value.
SGE: It's a dps. It is a dps that pumps damage HARD and has pneuma, which is a really good defensive layer. The shields are meh but they exist. LB is extremely strong but can be difficult to manage optimally. The raw damage output is countered by its health, so arguably the hardest to execute on.
SCH: Pressure job. Scholar's entire gameplay loop is flipping off the enemy team. Expedience is a good skill all around, the 8% adlo damage up is decent since it's player based, and the 8% bio damage down is really good if you spread it to the entire team. Mummy is the strongest heal down in the game, and an adlo-buffed expediented bio is also pretty good dot damage. Seraph is also an insanely strong lb if used correctly-- breaking a good seraph adlo expedience setup, especially if you have another healer or defense-giving job on hand, is very difficult-- an aoe automatic cc cleanse is good. Scholar can also be surprisingly tanky, at least in ranked. In LP it's still fairly tanky for a healer but you can still get 1gcd'd.

Scholar in particular I can say was probably my easiest top hundred grind of all the jobs I've played because I click with it and solo queue players forget to deal with it. So long as you understand that spreading bio is usually better than adlo and when adlo is a gain (usually when you cant bio more than 3 people)

If you want more resources or tips, you could join revival and ask around. my discord for instance is currently joebidensgreatesthits, and we also have other job players you can ask.

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how intellectual...

Aside from the useful pvp tips already posted there, just take it easy and jump into some casual CC matches after you spent a few mins to set up your hotbars and see what all your skills rougly are all about.

Don't be afraid to try out all of the jobs either, you might find your favourite playstyle in a job you may not even like in PvE as they can be VERY different.

Queue Syncing with someone you might know might also be very fun to get into the pvp world as well and it's less scary.
After you're feeling comfortable, you can check on all the advanced tips you got here as well as read upon more ressources (but I think PvP rule number 1 is to not take it TOO serious, it's a game to enjoy and have fun after all)

...But seriously try not to die with full MP without healing or guarding first, that's something I struggle too lol

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Originally Posted by notfool

how intellectual...

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A manor.


MMMMMMMMMMMMM

Played quite a bit over the past few days, definitely feel like once I got over the anxiety and started just queueing it's gone pretty well! Managed to get the faepup minion for 300 assists, which is exciting. :D Plus that's been one of the minions I wanted most in the game because it's super cute. Hoping this weekend my friends will be around so we can grind more- I'd like to get my series rank up a little higher.

Again, thanks so much to everyone in this thread. Without you guys I might not've ever tried the PVP modes and discovered I actually really enjoy them!

Welcome to the party >:D
And if you're really feeling it, the ranked season officially opens up with the release of 7.1. It's definitely more of a grind than casual CC/Frontline, but you'll get a ton of knowledge and experience just through the sheer number of games and faces you see.

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Originally Posted by gidsonBrand

Welcome to the party >:D
And if you're really feeling it, the ranked season officially opens up with the release of 7.1. It's definitely more of a grind than casual CC/Frontline, but you'll get a ton of knowledge and experience just through the sheer number of games and faces you see.

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I'm really excited for it!

Kind of glad I started during a preseason, gives me plenty of time left to practice up before it "really counts." I doubt I'll place very high during my first true season but it'll be fun to see how far I can get!

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I'm not saying you have no healing or that healing isn't useful. It's just a side responsibility that is included as part of their support.

No one should be thinking they died because a healer didn't heal them. Your life is your responsibility and healers can save you in an emergency is what I'm getting at.

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I really think that if you are in a backing out situation and you are bleeding out your a hole because of sch's, if you have an astro with loads next to you and you still die I think its the astro fault. but ay

Sorry to bump the thread! I know it's a minor achievement, but I just recently got A Wolf In White Robes II and it made me super excited when it popped up.

https://i.imgur.com/CIz4w0j.png

I know I still have a long way to go before I'm competitive, but I really feel like I'm starting to get at least somewhat of a handle on CC! SCH is basically an entirely different class here than it is in dungeons/raids and I am all here for it. It's so rewarding when a mummification hits just right and lets my teammates melt opponents who weren't expecting the heal reduction, or when I hit bio+deployment tactics and watch the enemy DPS just wilt away. I may not be playing my usual healer role most of the time but it's so fast paced and exciting!

Again, thanks so much to everyone from here who encouraged me to try the mode! Next week I'm gonna focus on frontline and try that out for a bit!