Hall of novice teaches you what is spread marker on Lvl49

Hello and apologies in advance. I would like to ask for help - maybe the point was lost in translation.

Live Letter has shown examples of mechanics tankbuster/stack/spread as part of Hall of Novice battles - that is unlocked at level 49.

https://i.imgur.com/xFy3dnZ.jpeg

Is the amount of people that don't know what stack/spread is on level 49 combat job in such alarming numbers?
Just making sure their data isn't being jeopardized by the amount of alts or bots running around.

I've seen people that don't have Swiftcast or Arm's Length on their bar but they have done enough of content before reaching level 49 that they learned what is stack/spread just by playing the game.

Can we suggest to not gate this information for new players and make it available much earlier, maybe via msq quest requirement early on.

cheers!

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Originally Posted by MAJRIS

Hello and apologies in advance. I would like to ask for help - maybe the point was lost in translation.

Live Letter has shown examples of mechanics tankbuster/stack/spread as part of Hall of Novice battles - that is unlocked at level 49.

https://i.imgur.com/xFy3dnZ.jpeg

Is the amount of people that don't know what stack/spread is on level 49 combat job in such alarming numbers?
Just making sure their data isn't being jeopardized by the amount of alts or bots running around.

I've seen people that don't have Swiftcast or Arm's Length on their bar but they have done enough of content before reaching level 49 that they learned what is stack/spread just by playing the game.

Can we suggest to not gate this information for new players and make it available much earlier, maybe via msq quest requirement early on.

cheers!

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I might be wrong but is there stack markers pre 49? Even if there is i'm not sure how you can see this as a negative. EVERYONE (had to believe no one or even some havent) seen a player run away with a stack marker.

You're right :) I might not remember it but I can guarantee I'm also one of these that ran away with stack marker at least once. Mainly because the visual is something aiming at you. It's a muscle memory from other mmos.

But then someone in the dungeon told me that "this one is stack marker, come closer" and that was my learning process.

New Players level so fast these days that unless they are never doing roulettes or leveling everything as they go, they'll have access to it anyway while they are still doing Titan Normal.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

I might be wrong but is there stack markers pre 49? Even if there is i'm not sure how you can see this as a negative. EVERYONE (had to believe no one or even some havent) seen a player run away with a stack marker.

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Dungeon mechanics in ARR:
Sastasha: Nothing
Tam-Tara: Kill the adds on the final boss to remove its invuln.
Copperbell: Some tankbusters and baited aoes.
Ifrit: Kill the add or we wipe
Halatali: Kill the adds to remove the bosses' invuln.
Toto-Rak: Poison
Haukke: You can interrupt attacks, tank!
Brayflox: Esuna exists
Titan: lol
Qarn: Esuna exists
Cutter's Cry: DRAGON'S VOICE RAM'S VOICE
Stone Vigil: Whirlwinds
Garuda: You can LoS certain attacks. (This info is only useful in deep dungeons lol)
Darkhold: Gaze attacks
Aurum Vale: Remove debuffs with Morbol Fruit
Castrum Meridianium: Flare AoE on the second boss, mulitple AoEs at once
Prae: Nero and Gaius have Stack Markers.
Decumana: Knockback attacks and "phase changes".

There literally isn't a Stack Marker before Prae.

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Originally Posted by MAJRIS

Is the amount of people that don't know what stack/spread is on level 49 combat job in such alarming numbers?

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The first stack marker people used to encounter was in either The Final Steps of Faith, or in Xelphatol. In both pieces of content, without fail, every single sprout would run away with the stack marker, not knowing what it was. So the answer to your question used to be yes.

This changed when they revamped older content to have stack markers, so people make this mistake earlier on in the game.

People used to run in the way of a tank buster cleave, so they added different types of tank buster markers. The red one with a caution icon or red circle around it means the tankbuster will cleave nearby players, but new players can't always distinguish, so that's what it will teach. There is also a red stack marker that means the tanks are meant to stack, but non-tank new players often stack instead, not able to tell the difference.

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Just making sure their data isn't being jeopardized by the amount of alts or bots running around.

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It's not. Given my Xelphatol example above, this genuinely happens if they don't explain what the telegraphs mean. However, players do explain it afterwards. Not so good for solo-only players that do it with NPCs though.

Lol i didn't realize what a stackmarker was until the quest battle in Rak'tika with Y'Shtola

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Originally Posted by MAJRIS

Is the amount of people that don't know what stack/spread is on level 49 combat job in such alarming numbers?

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Yes. People dont even get a stack marker right for Light Groups in Level 80 and above. I dont understand why they dont put this as a requiement in like MSQ. Since Dawntrail the People who are new are....special. And yes, i was new too, as we were all at a time. But its getting real bad lately, at least what i got in Duty Finder and its frustating.

I think it's fine, tbh.
This feature was sorely missing, I remember I had to teach a tank what Wild Charge is during Valigarmanda EX, multiple times.

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Originally Posted by LibitIncarne

Titan: lol

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The landslides.....the landslides......

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Originally Posted by LibitIncarne

Garuda: You can LoS certain attacks. (This info is only useful in deep dungeons lol)

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Namely the opening Mistral Song, and then everyone tries LoSing the ultimate when it doesn't matter there.

The game has long since needed a tutorial update but I really wonder if waiting til lv 49 is the way to go

As long as the put the red dorito marker in the list of explained mechanics I'm fine. People not knowing the difference between that one and the normal stack marker is too damn high, and caused me so many death with Absolute Authority NM.

Somebody told me yesterday that Hall of Novice is so old that they teach tanks to AoE *once* to get aggro and then have them swap to Single Target. If that's what Hall of the Novice is like now it is past time for an update and this is a good start. I think it will be developed further so the more feedback they get the better.

Honestly this should be required and tied to MSQ.

sorry... but so what?

a majority of novices likely dont know about or care about the Hall of Novices, or do the first couple and then bail. as someone mentioned.. its dated... very very dated.

unless they are -completely- rewriting Hall of Novices... teaching people about markers is a wasted effort. Given the amount of effort SE has put into training people (so much so that we consider people at level NINETY to be "new players" and excuse the ineptitude) this addition is a complete wasted effort.

What would actually be huge would be unlocking dye channels on the Brand New gear for completing the attack marker courses.

I do wish for it to actually be required to progress MSQ.

If SE is concerned about the impact on alts, they shouldn't be. Those of us that level alt characters through MSQ are ready for it. Going through Hall of the Novice is nothing compared to going through 10 years worth of MSQ...

To answer your question OP.

Yes.

A staggering number of people don't know what stack markers or spread markers are for higher-level content. It's understandable and kinda downing that people can make it so far in the game without ever understanding it.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

The game has long since needed a tutorial update but I really wonder if waiting til lv 49 is the way to go

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The game doesn't really use those mechanic telegraphs in the earlier ARR dungeons, but they show up rather aggressively in the reworked castrum/Praetorium.

The main thing I'm wondering is whether or not they'll bother incentivizing it enough to make people actually bother.

Make completing it give some halfway decent looking gear.

Sprouts are STARVING for gear that doesn't look like ass at that level. The whole reason I did Hall of the Novice when I first started playing is my friend told me the gear in there was slightly nicer looking than what else was available at my level.

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Originally Posted by LibitIncarne

There literally isn't a Stack Marker before Prae.

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So they're teaching the mechanic just in time, that's pretty good of 'em.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The game doesn't really use those mechanic telegraphs in the earlier ARR dungeons, but they show up rather aggressively in the reworked castrum/Praetorium.

The main thing I'm wondering is whether or not they'll bother incentivizing it enough to make people actually bother.

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Give out a decent weapon to match the artifact gear. Right now, the class quests give a set of armor (which most people will already have long before they get to the MSQ finale, since we out-level everything so easily now), but you're still stuck with whatever weapon you've picked up beforehand.

For extra incentive, make it the weapon that gets used as part of the relic quest, to give incentive to look into that. Even if the entire grind is kind of pointless now beyond glamour and achievements, it's still work a look.