Square Enix Appears To Have Ended Working Relationship With Sweet Baby Inc.

Details here-ish: https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/...weet-baby-inc/

What does this mean for the future of FF14? This is bound to be a productive conversation :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

Details here-ish: https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/...weet-baby-inc/

What does this mean for the future of FF14? This is bound to be a productive conversation :p

---

Maybe something, maybe nothing. Unfortunately it seems they picked up another company called Hit Detection, which does the exact same BS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

Details here-ish: https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/...weet-baby-inc/

What does this mean for the future of FF14? This is bound to be a productive conversation :p

---

To join another one instead, Hit Detection, that does the exact same thing as the poster above me just mentioned.

From one forest fire to another it would seem. I'll watch to see how things go.

Woke Lamat will be angry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PassinLay

To join another one instead, Hit Detection, that does the exact same thing as the poster above me just mentioned.

---

I've been hearing this since SE was taken off of SBI's website, but haven't seen any confirmation that they've picked up Hit Detection. Do you have any links for confirmation?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

Details here-ish: https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/...weet-baby-inc/

What does this mean for the future of FF14? This is bound to be a productive conversation :p

---

Probably nothing.

Nothing, none of the danger hair have been fired.

I never understood why they'd work with a barbeque sauce company anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CVXIV

I never understood why they'd work with a barbeque sauce company anyway

---

Maybe they needed it for the cowboys in Shaaloani

Man, politics and videogames do not mix well. I cannot wait to see more Concord flops on videogames. Oh baby, fun ride.

It's good news, but I fear the damage is done. Wuk L*mat is already in the game.

Do people just not know what consultation companies do now, or what?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Do people just not know what consultation companies do now, or what?

---

They do, they just want a scapegoat to blame. Every game that's bad must be because of "woke" (whatever that means exactly). These people are simply tourists with an agenda.

All i know is that i will unsub and blacklist SE, if there isn't a change in the near future.
( i'm so sick of all this ekstremist leftie/lib (political) propaganda, that gets shoved into every damn new game nowadays)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

They do, they just want a scapegoat to blame. Every game that's bad must be because of "woke" (whatever that means exactly). These people are simply tourists with an agenda.

---

Me thinking back to that SBI interview about telling employees to basically blackmail their superiors for not using their services.

Rejoice!

To be fair I don't think CBU3 was affiliated with Sweet Baby Inc in any way shape or form.
What it's going to mean is that we won't see other Forespoken in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

Me thinking back to that SBI interview about telling employees to basically blackmail their superiors for not using their services.

---

I think I know what you're talking about, but any time I look for the interview itself, I just find that one clip that ends too early and youtube's algorithm is completely stuffed when it comes to SBI in general (just anti-woke grifters telling people what to be angry at. Remind me to clear my history so I don't get that garbage on my feed).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaddes

yeah it's really annoying how it still keeps coming up. All they are used for is consulting; ultimately the studio itself decides on what it wants to do... and yet you get wackos coming out of the woodwork acting like SBI had a gun to devs' heads to do their bidding. If the company itself wants to act on that consulting, that's their business, but that's all the service is. And it doesn't seem to matter how many devs insist all it is is a consulting service because this BS just gets perpetuated among people that just stamp "woke" on any game they don't like.

---

Myeah, like Saraide said. They're a scapegoat to blame /shrug

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Do people just not know what consultation companies do now, or what?

---

yeah it's really annoying how it still keeps coming up. All they are used for is consulting; ultimately the studio itself decides on what it wants to do... and yet you get wackos coming out of the woodwork acting like SBI had a gun to devs' heads to do their bidding. If the company itself wants to act on that consulting, that's their business, but that's all the service is. And it doesn't seem to matter how many devs insist all it is is a consulting service because this BS just gets perpetuated among people that just stamp "woke" on any game they don't like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

Details here-ish: https://boundingintocomics.com/2024/...weet-baby-inc/

What does this mean for the future of FF14? This is bound to be a productive conversation :p

---

despite the many years they have had a relationship with sweet baby inc, i cannot personally say ive seen a square enix game except forspoken that fits these concerning models. if anything, the relationship with sweet baby inc may have encouraged the removing of gender restrictions from the game. i would recommend doing the research on what influences and changes were made by this company in regard to s.b.i before making any exadurated claims. recall if you will, the ff7 remake, having adult themes, and also nier automata having a character that looks like a doll you can buy and dress up online

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-6kgf...347778.jpg?c=1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Do people just not know what consultation companies do now, or what?

---

I do. I work in the games industry. Fortunately my company hasn't hired any of these types companies yet, so I haven't had to deal with any of them. Though I have worked with other consultants on stuff like localization, monetization, and advertising. But I've had coworkers and friends from Blizzard, EA, and a few of the other big development companies who have worked with outside consulting firms that are focused on the narratives put forward. Granted, this is all second-hand and never from the people who actually hired the consultants and signed their checks, but they did work with them. From what I've heard from said coworkers, it's not great as they do regularly push a particular narrative, but the reality is that what the "anti-woke" people are saying is only half true.

It's only half true because SBI and their contemporaries don't directly dictate what's put in the game, they don't have that power. Despite that, they can still influence the content of a game. By that I mean, the developers think that consultants have their finger on the pulse of the industry, the demographic, etc... why would they be hired if they didn't think that? Also there's also some tacit blackmailing which takes place. "Do what we recommend or you'll find yourself on the wrong end of a controversy." But even that isn't the majority of what's taking place. The last thing a lot of people don't realize when they complain about SBI or consulting firms like this is that the development teams are usually onboard with what is recommended, which once again, is why the consultancy agencies were hired in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lolnotacat

I do. I work in the games industry. Fortunately my company hasn't hired any of these types companies yet, so I haven't had to deal with any of them. Though I have worked with other consultants on stuff like localization, monetization, and advertising. But I've had coworkers and friends from Blizzard, EA, and a few of the other big development companies who have worked with outside consulting firms that are focused on the narratives put forward. Granted, this is all second-hand and never from the people who actually hired the consultants and signed their checks, but they did work with them. From what I've heard from said coworkers, it's not great as they do regularly push a particular narrative, but the reality is that what the "anti-woke" people are saying is only half true.

It's only half true because SBI and their contemporaries don't directly dictate what's put in the game, they don't have that power. Despite that, they can still influence the content of a game. By that I mean, the developers think that consultants have their finger on the pulse of the industry, the demographic, etc... why would they be hired if they didn't think that? Also there's also some tacit blackmailing which takes place. "Do what we recommend or you'll find yourself on the wrong end of a controversy." But even that isn't the majority of what's taking place. The last thing a lot of people don't realize when they complain about SBI or consulting firms like this is that the development teams are usually onboard with what is recommended, which once again, is why the consultancy agencies were hired in the first place.

---

Yeah, that part always had me sus about the whole SBI thing. So even if they were hired and offered suggestions about this or that, some suggestions could be rejected, yeah?

Also to answer your question regarding Hit Detection, they were credited in FFVII:Rebirth (fantastic and fun game, highly recommend).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Yeah, that part always had me sus about the whole SBI thing. So even if they were hired and offered suggestions about this or that, some suggestions could be rejected, yeah?

Also to answer your question regarding Hit Detection, they were credited in FFVII:Rebirth (fantastic and fun game, highly recommend).

---

Well here's the thing. The SBI thing isn't wrong, but it's not right either. These narrative consultants generally aren't great. They're not always be the boogeymen they're made out to be, but they can also be much worse. And yes, many of the suggestions can be (and are) rejected, but from what I've been told, some of the developers will also use the consultants to back up something they wanted to put in the game and use them as a scapegoat or shield. "Oh well 'consulting company' said it was a good idea so we went a long with it. We didn't expect it to not resonate with players." The whole thing is a bit more complicated than youtube channels make it out to be but on the whole, I think it's fair to at least give some pause when their names are dropped in the credits because it sets an expectation; realistic or not. Like if I see Tetsuya Nomura in the credits as a character designer, I expect lots of belts and zippers.

Also, thanks for letting me know where the Hit Detection was coming from. I kinda felt like it was just something that was thrown out there, but nobody ever said where it came from before.

TBH, I'm not interested in the FFVII remake. I enjoyed VII for what it was back on my PS1. Combined with enjoying the story and missing turn based games, I feel like it might hurt that nostalgia I have. Plus I can admit I might be aged out of the target demo lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lolnotacat

I do. I work in the games industry. Fortunately my company hasn't hired any of these types companies yet, so I haven't had to deal with any of them. Though I have worked with other consultants on stuff like localization, monetization, and advertising. But I've had coworkers and friends from Blizzard, EA, and a few of the other big development companies who have worked with outside consulting firms that are focused on the narratives put forward. Granted, this is all second-hand and never from the people who actually hired the consultants and signed their checks, but they did work with them. From what I've heard from said coworkers, it's not great as they do regularly push a particular narrative, but the reality is that what the "anti-woke" people are saying is only half true.

It's only half true because SBI and their contemporaries don't directly dictate what's put in the game, they don't have that power. Despite that, they can still influence the content of a game. By that I mean, the developers think that consultants have their finger on the pulse of the industry, the demographic, etc... why would they be hired if they didn't think that? Also there's also some tacit blackmailing which takes place. "Do what we recommend or you'll find yourself on the wrong end of a controversy." But even that isn't the majority of what's taking place. The last thing a lot of people don't realize when they complain about SBI or consulting firms like this is that the development teams are usually onboard with what is recommended, which once again, is why the consultancy agencies were hired in the first place.

---

Are you able to give any concrete examples of one of these agencies either positively or negatively affecting the final outcome of an aspect of a game? This is a lot of words but it's all generic vaguery. I can't actually find any sources anywhere of any game developer saying, "yeah we wanted to do this, but Sweet Baby [or whoever] told us we should really do this instead, and it ended up ruining our game/making our game a big success."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TemporalFruitsAndVeggies

Are you able to give any concrete examples of one of these agencies either positively or negatively affecting the final outcome of an aspect of a game? This is a lot of words but it's all generic vaguery. I can't actually find any sources anywhere of any game developer saying, "yeah we wanted to do this, but Sweet Baby [or whoever] told us we should really do this instead, and it ended up ruining our game/making our game a big success."

---

Unfortunately that's on purpose because the industry is very nepotistic and it's very easy to offend the wrong people (Look at the Del Walker controversy not too long ago) and I'm not gonna risk my (or anyone else's) comfy job. So of course, I'm not annoyed if what I say isn't believed or taken with a large grain of salt.

Doesn't matter, they've already tarnished Akira Toriyama's art, meanwhile other devs at the company like Nomura are blatently saying "you shouldn't make your characters uggo, people don't wanna play like themselves, they want to play as their FANTASY", the company is a mess either way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

Doesn't matter, they've already tarnished Akira Toriyama's art, meanwhile other devs at the company like Nomura are blatently saying "you shouldn't make your characters uggo, people don't wanna play like themselves, they want to play as their FANTASY", the company is a mess either way.

---

I wouldn't blame SBI for those changes in the art. The change in sprites to cover skins for western version have been there since the 90's, well before that kind of company even existed. Blame the american puritanism for that (or at least the façade they try to preserve, even it's only the mentality of a small rich portion of the population). It's just as gaming became more socially accepted, the injonction to fit the norm has become stronger. Videogame industry could allow itself to ignore that when they were more subversive, but with how the industry weight today, it's just not possible anymore.

For those of you wanting proof about Hit Detection. This is from FFVII Rebirth.
https://i.imgur.com/hhDrcfu.png

They basically have learned nothing, which should not surprising to anyone at all.

These large corporations don't ever learn.


But if they want to pay for a company to reduce their sales, that's their decision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lolnotacat

Unfortunately that's on purpose because the industry is very nepotistic and it's very easy to offend the wrong people (Look at the Del Walker controversy not too long ago) and I'm not gonna risk my (or anyone else's) comfy job. So of course, I'm not annoyed if what I say isn't believed or taken with a large grain of salt.

---

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I was questioning your credentials; I was legit just curious.

How does this pertain to XIV exactly? The real issue to me is Koji Fox's dishonest successor.

Stop trying to make Gamertage 2 happen, it's not going to happen. This obsession with a tiny consultancy firm is pathetic and shows that you know literally nothing about what consultants even do.

The writers are more to blame than anyone else. What sweet baby does any other corporate PR department can also do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uncle_Jafar

The writers are more to blame than anyone else. What sweet baby does any other corporate PR department can also do.

---

You see, we can't admit the writers of whichever gaming company we're fanboying for messed up, though. We have to blame something external.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

You see, we can't admit the writers of whichever gaming company we're fanboying for messed up, though. We have to blame something external.

---

Sure, it is ultimately the writing and art teams that make the final products...

But they're not being help by people who tell them that this
https://i.postimg.cc/mgGFMrj6/forspoken.jpg

is going to be more popular with the average person that this

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rBlade-Eve.png

Fantasy is supposed to be escapism, you don't want the real world in your fantasy world. The real world is enough.
FFXIV just is suffering from what WoW is suffering from too. Lack of competition. WoW has FFXIV beat on gameplay, here to the ends of the earth.
FFXIV has WoW beat on the visuals, the "2nd life escapism" and roleplay mechanics, housing etc.

If both of these MMO's had some actual competition that kept them evolving, they'd be amazing and could vibe off on that competitive atmosphere, trying to one up each other constantly and with that us players would benefit from better, more passionate games. But let's face it, the company will rather go for easy cash than actually put in some BIG CHANGES and effort.
FFXIV is content on rehashing old FF stories and pulling a "remember FFIX" instead of making something of their own and the list gooooes on. Pumping out the same formula because its SAFE and I hope to God it stops being safe for them soon enough for them to wake up a.k.a people leaving and unsubbing.

hopefully no more subtier writing but the players will still come up with cringe "head cannon". can't be helped unfortunately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Sure, it is ultimately the writing and art teams that make the final products...

But they're not being help by people who tell them that this

is going to be more popular with the average person that this

---

Both games here have pretty meh stories, but the gameplay from both is pretty fun. How a character looks doesn't matter to me, tbh. All I care about is "will I have fun?" and that's what I got.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Snip...

---

Forspoken is kinda wild. I actually think Frey from Forspoken is really attractive when shown in screenshots without emotion, and Ella Balinska, the woman she's modeled after is drop dead gorgeous. To me (I'm not a graphic artist so this is just a layman view), it looks like they were trying to focus too much on realism and when emotion is involved, Frey immediately dropped into uncanny valley.

I think the real issue with Frey and the art design in general is it looks muddled and focuses too much on the wrong things in an attempt to be realistic. It actually reminds me of something Yoshi-P said when talking about the graphics update. I'm paraphrasing, but he was asked if they were going to make the characters more realistic, and he said no because it would detract from the look and style. I think he's fundamentally correct -- look at how stylized Stellar Blade is to use your example.

Now look again at Frey from a more forgiving screenshot. Aside from the swept over sidecut that modern game developers love and I hate, I'm not gonna be convinced this is unattractive. She's a little plain Jane, but that also has its own appeal.

https://i.imgur.com/ACHm083.jpeg

Personally, I don't always need characters to be dressed up in scantily clad outfits to enjoy them. Yes, I do want them to at least be conventionally attractive, and having some coomerbait is nice occasionally (Nier Automata is one of my favorite games), but generally the art style needs to fit the game's aesthetic as a whole. I think having a character designed like Eve would be kinda silly in a pseudo-realistic fantasy Isekai (not counting that pretty much everything from Forspoken was a flop).

Well it's making the DEI-hating crybabies crawl out of the woodwork to wax lyrical about more nonsense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Stop trying to make Gamertage 2 happen, it's not going to happen. This obsession with a tiny consultancy firm is pathetic and shows that you know literally nothing about what consultants even do.

---