I need help understanding CC/PvP in FF14

I'm being serious.

I've been trying to understand it since Endwalker and I just can't, and this tilts me as a person where I feel like an absolute failure, and I spiral into depression. Please excuse my passive aggressiveness as the PvP revival discord has only ever told me 'git gud' responses, so here I am.

I need to understand why...

Question 1
When going for potions on the map, why is it the 5th person behind me that gets the heal? How to fix this? How is it fair to where on MY screen? MY GAME! I am the first one on top of it, AND/OR Dead on it!
This is the same for the one map in CC with the tornados and the chocobo buffs! WHY Is it that I am the only one chasing it, then anyone waddles in, and it's the person on the damn spawn point that gets it?!

Question 2
Who thinks 1 button, 1 shots are a good thing? I really want to know.
How is NIN, insta-kill, a good thing? It's a full animation stun, into an instant death.
And you ONLY need to be 50% health. You DO know, a ninja can simply Assassinate > Hyosho, and you are already at 50% right? This is only 1 job, with 2 abilities. Let's not forget there are 4 other team members. The way I see it is... As soon as you hit recuperate once, you've already lost VS Ninja LB.

Samurai is debatable there's a laughable 2 button setup, and it's very visible.

I don't see a damage set up into a 1 shot a problem, that's been in ALL mmo pvps. Root / stun into xyz spells, and abilities, burst, dead.

Question 3
When I play...

WAR/DRK/MNK/MCH

WAR LB Shout - I only ever hit 1 person, when there are 3 people grouped on point?

DRK Salted Earth - I can never get the follow up root to happen unless the person on the other end is sleeping at the wheel.

MNK/MCH - Knock back. Why are they always flying to the opposite side if where I am aiming? Why am I never able to push them in a bad location? I find it unfair to me, the paying customer that I am seeing my enemy in front of me, ready to use my skill to put them into a bad position, yet they just are blown behind me and to safety?

There are 100 more questions, but I'm going to start with these. I really hope, I get answers to my questions and not simply trolls with the 'git gud' responses. I have been desperately trying to understand and get better, but these little things make me want to never grind to crystal rank ever again, every queue was a slog, depressing, and a job I hated.

This is what you get when PvP community asking for PvP without healer being a crucial role
Also, it is the same PvP community asking for signature Limit Break for each job
They technically did listen to the community

Unfortunately there is not much you can do about any of your problems since they are all related to server ping.

Q1. If the other players have better ping than you, the server will register them in the potion/chocobuff/etc before it registers you. So they get it, even though you were there first on YOUR screen. In THIER screen THEY were there first and had better ping. This is probably the single handed worst thing about XIV PvP.

Q2. This is something you CAN do something about but I will let others chime in on this once since I have not played CC in over a year and there might be better ways of dealing with this than from when I was playing.

Q3. Ping issue and also a skill issue. If the server only pinged 1 person in your AoE during the WAR shout even though you saw 3 inside of it, only 1 is getting hit. Alternatively, you might have positioned yourself inadequately so it missed the other 2. Impossible to say which from which without a video clip.

DRK Salted earth - by the time the server registered your root, the other players were already out of the AoE on thier screen with better ping than you. Alternatively, you might be slow to root them after dropping the salted earth. Again, hard to say without a video clip showing the timing of your button presses.

MCH Knockback - The player was registered by the server to be hit with a knockback and snapshots this position as the point of knockback. Then the enemy moved during the ping delay and is then is hit with the point blank knockback from where the server first registered the position. Thus, causing the player to be knocked back in another direction based on his new position around the snapshotted point of the knockback.

Players get frustrated because they don't understand just how bad the ping in PvP is and how awful it becomes when combined with snapshotting. So they automatically assume hacks/cheats/etc. When actually its just that the game engine/server sucks.

All you can do is play around the ping/server delay/snapshotting. I suffered from the very same issues in Q1 and adjusted by just never contesting potions/chocobuffs only going for the ones where Im the only player.

One other thing in the chocobuff: sometimes youll be tossed up directly into the chocobuff and the only player on the buff, but still take full fall damage and not get buffed because of server ping/snapshot. The server can sometimes snapshot before you even get tossed up (on your screen).

Everything you're describing is attributed to the net code and snapshotting. Nobody is particularly fond of the former, but it is something you have to adjust to or just don't play. This isn't a bid to "git gud", it's a bid to help you realize it's stuff that's hardwired into the game and likely won't change.

Don't expect to knock someone back exactly where you want them unless a cc is involved. Just because you're first on your screen does not mean you're first on the server. You have to be proactive on a lot of things and also recognize that someone who owns a corner has a huge peaking advantage over someone who is in the open, all because of the net code.

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Originally Posted by ShiyuuHQ

Question 1
When going for potions on the map, why is it the 5th person behind me that gets the heal? How to fix this? How is it fair to where on MY screen? MY GAME! I am the first one on top of it, AND/OR Dead on it!

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Are you standing on it right as it spawns? If so then it won’t register you without movement and if someone else moves in at the perfect time, they’ll get it. It takes a few seconds for it to register being “spawned.”

As for the tornado, I’m starting to think you might just need better internet.

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Question 2
Who thinks 1 button, 1 shots are a good thing? I really want to know.
How is NIN, insta-kill, a good thing? It\\'s a full animation stun, into an instant death.
And you ONLY need to be 50% health. You DO know, a ninja can simply Assassinate > Hyosho, and you are already at 50% right? This is only 1 job, with 2 abilities. Let\\'s not forget there are 4 other team members. The way I see it is... As soon as you hit recuperate once, you\\'ve already lost VS Ninja LB.

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I can see why the peeps at revival told you to git gud. Because you’re crying about something that can literally be fixed by “skill.” The key is to stay near max HP if a NIN has his LB ready. Spam recuperate if you need to. Listen to the sound of NIN casting LB. If you hear it, and it wasn’t cast on you, you have plenty of time to run away - create distance or guard. Guard is the number one counter to a NIN chain LB window.

This requires you to have awareness, reaction speed and anticipation of what other players will do. And all this requires skill or “to git gud.”

Also, if your guard is down and you’re low MP, running away is the best option because the longer it takes for them to reach you, the higher the chances that their chain wears off afterwards, reducing the chances of them potentially chain LBing your teammates.

Also also, if you have full resources and the NIN is trying to chain LB, just focus the NIN, chances are, you’ll kill him or force him to back off and waste time on recuperating. This requires you to git gud though. Not tunnel visioning and being able to switch to priority targets with ease is hard for most players.

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Question 3
WAR LB Shout - I only ever hit 1 person, when there are 3 people grouped on point?

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It’s a cone, aim better. Serious answer.

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DRK Salted Earth - I can never get the follow up root to happen…

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Literally a skill issue or internet issue. Click faster?

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MNK/MCH - Knock back. Why are they always flying to the opposite side if where I am aiming?

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Ok, I seriously think you just need better internet lmao.

All my answers are serious, even the git gud ones. Cause it does sound like you’re b*tching about gameplay more than you are actually asking for advice. But I honesty think you might just need better internet at this point. Or play on a server closer to your geolocation.

To add…

I don’t think it needs to be said, but just in case. When you do guard against a NIN LB, make sure you have above 50% HP (the more the better).

And as everyone else already beat into the ground, you have to consider netcode issues and server distance. So if you’re playing in NA from Japan (like I used to), you’re gonna have a bad time in PvP.

I find it unfair to me, as a paying customer, that my enemies also happen to be playing the game sometimes.

Your mindset is completely wrong, as others have probably said before me, if you decry everything and anything as "unfair", you're just never going to improve. Nothing in this thread or any discord is going to help you unless you fix your own mental first.

NIN involves just a tiny bit more than what you're perceiving. If a NIN attacks too soon after a Hyo, the game will decide it's not actually struck the target yet, despite what animations or inputs suggest. Their LB will instead zip through and hit what was apparently a non-49.9% foe. Granted, Hyo has the fastest onset of damage of any skill NIN has (we're not counting Goka here as it's AoE). Raiju is pretty lethargic and Fuma Shuriken is even worse. With that in mind, you actually do have a window to heal yourself and deny their LB so long as you don't get additionally cc'd in that window. It's still a pretty lazy move, but it's not unstoppable.

NIN also comes with the convenience of being able to see what mudra it can't use at that moment, so you can deduce what's coming to some degree. Besides, Assassinate into Hyo can be reacted to fairly easily, Assassinate into Raiju well... you better have your Purify ready to anticipate it but it's still separated by button presses you can react to. Better still, be aware of when the NIN's poofed and try to stay out of range to make sure it's not you they're stalking during the 4 secs they're out of sight. Either way, I was speaking more from the angle of the move used in isolation that would drop you under 50%, it's still reactable, or rather... cuck-uppable on the NIN's part.

Try it out on a dummy on WDP if you have NIN unlocked, use each skill and note how long it takes for the health to drop vs the animation. It's very easy to mess up LB if you rely on Raiju for example, IF you're too trigger happy. They adjusted onset of cc to be more responsive ahead of anything else some time ago, not so for damage though (this can be observed with how quickly the stun is applied vs the damage in the same test).

As to the rest of your complaints, that's been covered. It's netcode magic unfortunately, the other other supa sekrit cc, "dynamis". Call it what you will, but it's sure a mystical force at first. You eventually pick up a feel for it and learn to play around it, which is to say, like you're permanently lagged.

Also just breathe, yes? It's not worth getting too mad with a rickety system such as this one, and try not to let certain personalities get to you.

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Originally Posted by ShiyuuHQ

Question 1
When going for potions on the map, why is it the 5th person behind me that gets the heal? How to fix this? How is it fair to where on MY screen? MY GAME! I am the first one on top of it, AND/OR Dead on it!
This is the same for the one map in CC with the tornados and the chocobo buffs! WHY Is it that I am the only one chasing it, then anyone waddles in, and it's the person on the damn spawn point that gets it?!

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Because on their screen they're the first one on top of it, and to the server they probably were slightly ahead of you, but due to how poorly positioning is updated in real time in this game, it just leads to frustrating experiences such as yours here. It is also frustrating for me when it happens.
As a rule though, if you see someone running just next to you to get something, or even slightly back, odds are they're actually ahead, even if you don't have latency (it can still involve significant amounts of delay).

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Originally Posted by ShiyuuHQ

Question 2
Who thinks 1 button, 1 shots are a good thing? I really want to know.
How is NIN, insta-kill, a good thing? It's a full animation stun, into an instant death.
And you ONLY need to be 50% health. You DO know, a ninja can simply Assassinate > Hyosho, and you are already at 50% right? This is only 1 job, with 2 abilities. Let's not forget there are 4 other team members. The way I see it is... As soon as you hit recuperate once, you've already lost VS Ninja LB.

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LBing someone at lower than 50% HP while they still have MP left and are in full possession of their character agency (no stun etc), is a gamble on NIN since sometimes they'll just recuperate or get healed when you press the button and you'll just waste it. The higher ranked, the more reactive people are with this. Play Ninja and you'll see that it's not that insta win as it may seem. It's just gamba, quite frankly, unless you play it ultra safe and only go for safe targets (no MP left, crowd controlled, etc).
However I do think it's the lamest LB of all. I like the idea of a LB one can chain one target to another under specific circumstances, but I do think the current requirement isn't healthy, good or fun.

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Originally Posted by ShiyuuHQ

Question 3
When I play...

WAR/DRK/MNK/MCH

WAR LB Shout - I only ever hit 1 person, when there are 3 people grouped on point?

DRK Salted Earth - I can never get the follow up root to happen unless the person on the other end is sleeping at the wheel.

MNK/MCH - Knock back. Why are they always flying to the opposite side if where I am aiming? Why am I never able to push them in a bad location? I find it unfair to me, the paying customer that I am seeing my enemy in front of me, ready to use my skill to put them into a bad position, yet they just are blown behind me and to safety?

There are 100 more questions, but I'm going to start with these. I really hope, I get answers to my questions and not simply trolls with the 'git gud' responses. I have been desperately trying to understand and get better, but these little things make me want to never grind to crystal rank ever again, every queue was a slog, depressing, and a job I hated.

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It sounds to me you have a LOT of latency if anything. But yes it happens because of the reasons explained in #question 1. Positioning in this game is BAD, and you'll have the same problem in pve as well, its just less directly problematic.

Thank you all for the information, and input.

I will strive to be better, I will aim to adjust, I will work around it all.

I will balance it from all this info. It's better than I received in discords.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

This is what you get when PvP community asking for PvP without healer being a crucial role
Also, it is the same PvP community asking for signature Limit Break for each job
They technically did listen to the community

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I still remember the extremely dead unranked feast queue. I'd rather have this

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Everything you're describing is attributed to the net code and snapshotting. Nobody is particularly fond of the former, but it is something you have to adjust to or just don't play. This isn't a bid to "git gud", it's a bid to help you realize it's stuff that's hardwired into the game and likely won't change.

Don't expect to knock someone back exactly where you want them unless a cc is involved. Just because you're first on your screen does not mean you're first on the server. You have to be proactive on a lot of things and also recognize that someone who owns a corner has a huge peaking advantage over someone who is in the open, all because of the net code.

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Oh hey mandy

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Originally Posted by Degunuts

Oh hey mandy

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OH HEY MANDY

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

To add…
When you do guard against a NIN LB, make sure you have above 50% HP (the more the better).

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Embarrassing off-topic question but are you telling me Nin's LB works through guard as long as the target is below 50%?

Assume everything you do and see is a second behind what is actually on the screen. If 2 people are running and they are behind you, then they are actually next to you most likely. When you shield and get barraged by attacks, those attacks where already registered before your shield, etc... you basically have to anticipate instead of react to most things in PVP. Feel when crowd control is coming and pre-purify. Know when bursts are going to happen and pre-shield. You get a feeling for it over time.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Embarrassing off-topic question but are you telling me Nin's LB works through guard as long as the target is below 50%?

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Yes it does.