I thought this was quite an interesting thread about the future of DT's story on the /r/ffxivdiscussion subreddit and thought I'd bring it here. As for what I think? The story surrounding Preservation isn't over yet and might be the focus for the next several patches. A few people mentioned it in the thread's comments already so I know I'm not alone on this hypothesis. Other theories will be copy pasta'd below in the Notable Comments section.
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Original Post: Anyone got any theories based off what we know at the end of Dawntrail about the future direction of the story? The wilder and crazier the theory, the better. Just thought I'd post something different than the usual story critiques of DT.
Is Sphene coming back? Where Azem at? Is the artefact the first step in some kind of big rejoining of the shards (except without the ensuing calamity)? Are we going to Australia or doing Stormblood 2.0 next (based on Yoshi-P's comments)? Is Tataru secretly evil based on that weird smirk she did a couple expansions ago?
What do you think?
Edit: Maybe I didn't make this clear enough, but this topic is more for people who still actually like the game and want to talk about the implications of the events of DT on the future story. If your post is along the lines of "lul speak to wuk" or "more failed reworks please look forward to it", then maybe move along elsewhere.
Thanks, have a nice day. :)
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Notable Comments:
"Since Endwalker ramped up the FF4 fanservice in the patches, I suspect DT will do the same with the FF9 fanservice. With that said, my theories
1. The main hook we have is the Key, which is something Krile and Y'Shtola will be interested in.
2. With the dome around Living Memory gone, people from the less-destroyed-than-believed Ninth will begin showing up and investigating. The reason LM is so empty now is because these expeditions will set up camp there and maybe even have a sidequest or two, so it will get built back up kind of like Idyllshire back in HW.
3. 7.0 namedropped like fifty locations from FF9, but conspicuously avoided mentioning the most popular one, Burmecia. Thus, I think these explorers will be Burmecians,. Ideally they are rat people but they might cheap out and have them be human. Either way, one of them will be a blatant analogue of Freya.
4. Alexandria (the dungeon) made a point of showing that Alexandria Castle was at the bottom level of Everkeep. That will be the 7.3 dungeon and will probably include a Bandersnatch as a boss.
5. A bunch of Lore about the Milala and their connection to Azem will be revealed.
6. The final reveal will be that, just like in FF9, Alexander is in Alexandria (he's on the Alexandria logo, after all!). He gets destroyed, but part of him will be sent back in time for the Alexander storyline, and Y'shtola (who was in that storyline) will have a bunch of optional dialogue about it.
Alternatively, you set out to explore the 9th, and the exploration is a dungeon that goes down through an Evil Forest and up an Ice Cavern and at the end you can see a village of survivors who've rebuilt in the post-apocalyptic world in the 30 years Alexandria has been gone. This will be the village of Dali, and will be a small instanced area like Werlyt in ShB or Zero's Domain in Endwalker."
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"I think the next overarching storyline will be about connecting all the shards together (not necessarily via Rejoinings, more like opening portals between them all). This will involving fixing the Void at some point, which might also tie in with Mercydia considering there’re meant to still be a bunch of Voidgate other there.
This is way more speculative, but I think connecting all the shards back together is going to awaken some slumbering ‘Serpent’ within the Aetherial Sea that happened to get Sundered all that time ago and now threatens to destroy the world once returned to it’s full strength."
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"Things we know:
-There's a World Tree in Meracydia. Seeds of it have been being spread to distant lands.
-There's an Iifa Tree on the Ninth Shard (the original Iifa Tree in FF9 was foreign to that world). Possibly grown from a seed of the World Tree.
-Other civilizations out in the cosmos had World Trees. One is seen at the end of the Dead Ends dungeon and the other is in Ultima Thule, in the Omicron area.
-We have hints/a prophecy from the Studium quests about Lifestream going wild and needing "seven wedges" to fix it.
-Sephirot, a primal of the World Tree, had 6 arms (this is a surprise tool that will help us later).
-We've had some destabilizations in the lifestream: Zodiark's demise causing his influence on the aetherial currents to stop, the souls he was comprised of returning to the lifestream, and the aetherial sea of the Ninth being possibly linked to the Source (plus all the weird soul meddling the Alexandrians do).
-We have a fancy doodad that can fuse Shards to the Source.
-Fusing other shards to the source will also likely advance time for that shard and cause a time compression event until the fabric of magic/space/time stabilizes. If used on the First or Thirteenth, this could cause time skips, leading to aged up characters/new lands to explore.
-Shards have a natural pull towards the source, and Hydaelyn is gone and no longer abating this pull.
-Alexandrians attempted World Fusion multiple times in the past. When this happened in FF9, it damaged the world of Gaia.
-Giant rifts/cracks in the world/ocean west of Tural. Game has mythology about the rifts origin, taken with a grain of salt. It could be damage from failed World Fusion.
-Sphene boss fight showed us other worlds. Her doing this could have further upset the balance between the Source and Shards.
-Azem didn't go along with the Convocation's plan or Venat's plan. I find it hard to believe they didn't have their own plan.
-Azem was shown to have some powers of foresight/knowledge of future events.
-FF11 themed content on the way. Most likely will have to do with the 11th shard.
My theories:
We need to stop a mass rejoining of the worlds and stabilize/connect their lifestreams/aetherial sea. Azem most likely saw this coming and set a plan in motion to stop it. I think we need to use the Doodad to connect the World Trees of the Source (1) to all the Shards (+6 = 7 Wedges, or think of it as Sephirot/World Tree being 1 body and 6 arms/branches).
My craziest theory:
The lyrics of the song "Answers" gained clearer and new meanings as expansions came out, becoming fully realized with the themes/plot of Endwalker. I believe the song "Fiend" (the Sephirot theme) was meant to do the same thing. I read somewhere that that Michael-Christopher Koji Fox, who did the lyrics, said that the song was some sort of warning about Hydaelyn (couldn't find a source on this).
Some interesting lines, which I believe are in order of shards they refer to:
"Better to serve in a waking nightmare, than rule in their paradise"
-Refers to the state of things on the First during Shadowbringers.
"What is gold, always glitters. But it still comes with an unpayable price"
-Refers to the Endless of the Ninth, requiring an infinite amount of either to sustain them.
"Treading out upon the stagnant waters, our savior waiting for a turn in the tide"
-Unclear, possibly referring to the Eleventh shard and some water themed stuff.
"You are the night at the end of the tunnel, the empty void where the serpent lies"
-Referring the void of the Thirteenth, Golbez, and Azdaja.
In conclusion:
I've seen some complaints that Dawntrail hasn't laid the groundwork for future storylines. I guess I agree. The groundwork isn't being laid, but the seeds (both metaphorical and literal) have been being planted around this entire time. Some of my thoughts on these theories existed prior to Dawntrail's release and I've only gotten more excited about them since. I think this World Tree Arc will be built up to more strongly in the 7.x patches, with Meracydia being 8.0, and a full fusion of the worlds occuring in 9.0, with new/time skipped shards to explore."
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"Better writing hopefully.
Snark aside there are a few things I 100% expect:
Sphene is not entirely dead, the queen we encountered wasn’t her soul but her memories which are two distinct things. She is going to return in some form.
Preservation is going to be the new main antagonist faction, I’d wager led by one of the remaining Ascians.
The key is going to be the main plot point and was created by Azem before the sundering as a way to allow intershard travel.
Wuk Lamat is going to not appear whatsoever after 7.3 or so. If there is one single piece of feedback about DT’s story the devs will take its that people do not like Wuk enough for her to be a main character after this arc is over."
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"I am convinced 8.0 will primarily be about fixing the Void. So often the patches have included set up for the one after next.
1. ARR patches introduced Yugiri and the refugees as well as Ilberd, and then Stormblood was building off of that.
2. Heavensward patches introduced the Warriors of Darkness, and Shadowbringers was building off of that.
3. Stormblood patches had the Empire beginning to tear itself apart whilst Zenos reclaimed his body, and Endwalker was building off of that.
4. Shadowbringers did not fit this pattern as it was just leading into Endwalker as the big finale.
5. Endwalker patches were heavily focused on expanding our knowledge of the Void, we were introduced to major new characters like Zero and Durante, and said we would see them again at the end. They also went to the trouble of voicing Gaia in an MSQ cutscene if you did the raid, and she said she’d come along with us next time. On top of that Cyella and Unulkalhai’s dialogue was constantly updated and they want to help fix the Void too, and Beq Lugg even mentioned Unulkalhai by name if you’ve done those quests.
With all of that in mind I very much believe that 8.0 will be building off of all the setup done in the EW patches. Ryne, Gaia, Zero and Durante will be main characters, and we will be working to restore the Void.
As for the overarching Azem plotline that seems to be getting set up currently, I believe the original Golbez whose soul is currently in a memoria crystal is an Azem shard and I think we will find a way to reverse the crystallisation and will rejoin with him by the end.
In the super long term, final expansion of FF14 type thing I think we will end up fully rejoined to our original self, we will travel back to Ancient times and be raised up to the seat of Azem, and the whole story will end up being a closed loop. This is how Azem knew to send Elidibus to meet us for Pandaemonium because he/she had already lived through it, it’s why Azem didn’t join Venat’s group as he/she knew the outcome already, etc etc. We have never been shown what Azem looks like as it would reveal that it is us.
Hope that last part is wild and crazy enough!"
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"I hope they continue to elaborate on the story themes of legacy, burden, and letting go, but with a little more precision."
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"There's definitely going to be more shenanigans in other reflections that we'll have to deal with now that we have an item that will allow reflection travel, but realistically the story could take us in a lot of other directions before we do that. After all, once we do gain that ability to travel, what's after that? Slowly restoring the other worlds? That doesn't sound very adventurous, so I see a big misdirection happening first before we get to that point.
Unlike a lot of other people, I didn't really find little Gulool Ja to be that compelling, I doubt we're going to drop in on him and mentor him on the day to day intricacies of managing a kingdom. He may pop up occasionally when we need his help on using some Alexandrian technology, but I don't figure him to be a huge part of the patch MSQ.
Since Y'Shtola and G'raha showed up at the second half of the 7.0 MSQ, I figure they will be important as to what happens next. Y'Shtola's been researching since she got to Tural and you know G'raha's always up for an adventure or two. I think the immediate upcoming patch MSQs to be focused on that, maybe one of them makes a discovery that we have to explore leading to a new dungeon, or Wuk Lamata tells us of some hidden things in her father's notes about other mysteries in Tural that we haven't yet discovered, leading to us diving in headfirst to whatever new dangers that are uncovered which, of course, will tie back into the main storyline of reflection travel or unlocking the mysteries of that key.
One thing I'm fairly certain is that they're not going to bring the Ascians back into things. We're done with their story for now and I don't think Yoshi-P wants to use them as a crutch whenever things are not received well. I think he'll want to go in a brand new direction away from the Ascians, so this key item would have been completely unknown to Emet and we'll have to figure out what it is on our own."
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Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...ion_dawntrail/
Yeah this is a pretty large post, and there's also a lot more in the actual reddit thread. Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves below or visit the reddit thread yourselves, cheers.
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09-09-2024, 02:00 AMSwordsman/r/ffxivdiscussion: What's Next? Theories and Speculation (DT Edition)
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09-09-2024, 03:31 PMTsiron
It seems weird to have used (you could even argue wasted) all of 7.0 just to give us what seems to be the key to traveling to other reflections, but... I'm not complaining, I was kind of hoping that was going to be the focus going forward
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09-09-2024, 03:34 PMSupersnow845
Dawntrail is so weird in that it literally wasted every single one of its plot threads
Wuk Lamat is done
Krile is done
Erenville is done
Alexandria is pretty much done
Tural is done
Literally what do we have besides the key -
09-09-2024, 07:03 PMsindriiisgamingThis isn't loss. Most of those things were so unbearable that nobody wanted more on them anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
We have stuff about the 9th not done
We have questions about ultima not answered
Questions about the crown, about the key. About how the milala got the key. Questions about electropes origins about why azem was making the key.
The sad thing is I fear were not done with poochi at all. Even yoshi p hinted shed get some improvements -
09-09-2024, 07:06 PMSupersnow845And im not saying they were good or bad characters, I’m saying they wasted their plot lines in a “set up for the future” expansionQuote:
Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming
Every other point you listed is basically just “what is the key” explained in more detail. The stuff surrounding the key is literally the only thing we have from a set up expansion
Can you imagine if ARR’s only lead on point after gaius was a vague letter about the state of ishgard -
09-11-2024, 06:18 AMJeeqbitNo.Quote:
Is Sphene coming back?
Considering we have Azem's soul, we aren't gonna find Azem anywhere. We may find other fragments of Azem's soul in other shards, or travel to the past and meet, maybe, but probably not, since they want us to imagine that Azem is us in many ways.Quote:
Where Azem at?
I suppose that could be done. Like how combining The Tempest back with the other shards might rebuild a clearer picture of Amaurot again and what Sastasha was supposed to look like. But SE won't do that specifically because The Tempest will continue to exist as a travel point.Quote:
Is the artefact the first step in some kind of big rejoining of the shards (except without the ensuing calamity)?
There are plenty of other ways they could go. They have mentioned Corvos a lot, which could have it take place somewhere in the garlean territories. They have also mentioned other shards and might instead use the relic or the portal as a way to figure out how to actually travel to other shards freely.Quote:
Are we going to Australia or doing Stormblood 2.0 next (based on Yoshi-P's comments)?
That is one of the hooks. The other we have is Gulool Ja, who I think we will have to find childcare for and help them become a leader of Solution Nine (which will be boring, but SE feels the need to clean up loose ends so) and we may need Gulool Ja to enter passcodes and things.Quote:
The main hook we have is the Key, which is something Krile and Y'Shtola will be interested in.
I would really like for it to be built up again, but from the interviews I think a big part of the story is meant to be that they connect us to all these characters and then have us shut those characters down. Just like Shadowbringers was dubbed "Depressionbringers" and Endwalker was also dubbed that, turning LM from a vibrant happy place to a depressing place was meant to make us feel as depressed as the Shadowbringers and Endwalker plots.Quote:
The reason LM is so empty now is because these expeditions will set up camp there and maybe even have a sidequest or two, so it will get built back up kind of like Idyllshire back in HW.
I think the only way they would be rat people is if they are going to make it a new race. Because if there are rat people on that shard then they are also in the other shards since the races have been mirrored so far as we've seen.Quote:
Ideally they are rat people but they might cheap out and have them be human.
Okay, now this is what I actually was expecting from the MSQ after I saw the Launch Trailer. I thought Sphene's comments implied that with our strength, we could change the past so I immediately thought "Alexander, the past, Alexandria from FF9". I thought maybe this would explore the origin of how Alexander came about. But the MSQ didn't go that way... at all. It took...a much darker turn than I was thinking. And that does make sense to a degree because of how it'd need to navigate the raid sidequest story.Quote:
just like in FF9, Alexander is in Alexandria
I guess we could have an expansion where we travel Mercydia and try to create mini-rejoinings all over it, with each one causing enemies to appear (a dungeon). That would fit with their formula where we need to have 6 MSQ dungeons and 3 trials.Quote:
I think the next overarching storyline will be about connecting all the shards together
The reason we can't is because The Void being in this state allows our dark magics to work such as the Reaper art and mage lore. That's why they set The Void on the path to recovery, saying "it will now slowly recover over a period of time". But that period of time is unclear and obviously not meant to be in the lifetime of this game.Quote:
This will involving fixing the Void at some point
All I know is that Hydaelyn sundered everything into elemental shards. This is indicated multiple times, beginning with the Warrior of Light collecting all the elements to build Hydaelyn's Blessing. It's then indicated by Hydaelyn saying "reflections of the source, each possessed of a shard". It's then indicated in the explanation by Emet, where you can see the calamities are elemental in nature, depending on the element of that shard. Then you see it in the Hydaelyn trial, where her ultimate attack is this elemental sundering that is her main power. So to understand the way in which things remain sundered it is crucial to understand that it has been separated on an elemental level somehow.Quote:
I think we need to use the Doodad to connect the World Trees of the Source (1) to all the Shards (+6 = 7 Wedges, or think of it as Sephirot/World Tree being 1 body and 6 arms/branches).
She's a city state leader. She was always destined to go the way of Ser Aymeric, Lord Hien, Lyse, Raubahn, Chai-Nuzz and Varshahn - ie. we will hardly talk to them after this.Quote:
Wuk Lamat is going to not appear whatsoever after 7.3 or so.
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09-11-2024, 10:15 AMTheRealQuah
Think we will be dealing with Ultima next, as the crystal inside the key is clearly auracite.
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09-11-2024, 12:21 PMStormChase
I think there's gonna be an Alexander comeback. That thing the Hotgo used to summon Alexander looked kinda like electrope.
This is definitely a controversial opinion, but I hope they don't completely ditch Wuk Lamat. Sometimes the game has this habit of removing characters from the story, even if they have potential, because the players are super negative about them, and it feels like a cop-out. People really hated Alphinaud too, but their view of him changed because the writers didn't kill him off in Heavensward. Meanwhile Minfilia's still seen as annoying because she got fridged before she could grow on the players and grow as a character. -
09-11-2024, 12:42 PMWillemdarke
Thanks for the link, reading people's speculation has made me somewhat hopeful and interested in where the story might go, unlike the game itself.
It's comforting to imagine many different possibilities for the future, I'm specifically drawn towards the world tree speculation. Hopefully the game can get back on track.
Eh, unlike many other sidelined characters, I think Minfilia was handled well. They turned her into a martyr and a tragic figure people feel bad for and long for what could have been. Her death was also the sole reason for Thancred turning into a great character, instead of just a stereotypical 007 ladies man and also the foundation for Ryne, another good character.Quote:
Originally Posted by StormChase
At least she's not sipping tea in her castle like everyone else, lol.
And to be fair, Minfilia had a butt window in her skirt. Her character was kind of doomed from the start. -
09-11-2024, 12:54 PMJeeqbitWould be interesting if they did that overall, I just really thought it was going to happen in the 7.0 MSQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by StormChase
I don't think they will ditch her. But she is a city state leader now. We barely interact with those. We will most likely speak to them about as often as we speak with Lord Hien or the Elder Seedseer.Quote:
hope they don't completely ditch Wuk Lamat.
I don't think there is any evidence of that.Quote:
the game has this habit of removing characters from the story, even if they have potential, because the players are super negative about them
If you mean to compare her to Lyse like everyone else is, she seemed destined to become the leader of Ala Mhigo from the start. But she was always a fighter; even going back to ARR, her thing was punching people up. She wasn't really much of an actual confident leader or politician. So when she was provided with that chance, there was clearly someone who was confident with an Ala Mhigan background - Raubahn. If you actually go right to the beginning of Stormblood the seeds for this lack of confidence as a leader and politician were intentionally put there from the start.
But since she always was a passionate fighter, it made sense to just go back to overseeing their army at Rhalgr's Reach.
So from my point of view, Lyse was always going to go in this direction. I don't even remember any hate really until streamers started having a go at her long after that story arc finished.
I loved Alphinaud in ARR. I did not like what he became after that. I found him extremely relatable in ARR and I liked how he was being "smart" to everyone. Maybe the voice actor just conveyed his character to me better in ARR, I don't know. I liked the story arc for him in Heavensward, but after that I just didn't find his character believable.Quote:
People really hated Alphinaud too, but their view of him changed because the writers didn't kill him off in Heavensward.
Their plan was never to kill him off, ever. They saw Alphinaud and Alisaie as the future and I remember Yoshi-P saying he wanted Alisaie to eventually replace Minfilia (probably due to being a fighter and more relatable), which is most likely why we got that one-on-one conversation with her in Heavensward.
I think they intended to kill off the characters they did anyway because they couldn't salvage them and make them interesting. They salvaged Y'shtola by making her blind and see aether which gave her a unique super power and they salvaged Thancred by making him have a unique weakness (inability to use magic) and they salvaged Yda with the mask reveal but I think they just couldn't think of a way to stop certain characters being bland and made them interesting after they died instead (Minfilia, Moenbryda, etc).Quote:
Meanwhile Minfilia's still seen as annoying because she got fridged before she could grow on the players and grow as a character.
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09-11-2024, 12:57 PMStormChaseThe reason it felt dissatisfying to me was because she basically stopped being her own character once the Word of the Mother stuff happened. Don't get me wrong, I love Thancred and Ryne's arcs, but it also makes me sad that most of the time Minfilia will only ever be relevant when it has to do with them. But at the same time it's hard for me to imagine how it'd work without what happened happening. The butt window thing was definitely a bizarre design choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Willemdarke
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09-11-2024, 01:08 PMDivinemights
What if Azem is the true mastermind and WoL will experiencing internal self struggle and split into two?
WoL vs Azem as next arc
This not only makes story more interesting and also solving the power creeping problem -
09-11-2024, 02:45 PMWillemdarkeI agree that was a weird choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by StormChase
It painted Hydaelyn as some sort of an unfeeling cosmic power that used our characters as chest pieces. Now that we've met her it seems even weirder, as in EW she was presented as deeply sympathetic, benevolent and self-sacrificing.
I don't mind what happened or how that story went, just how it was presented and the dialogue used. Yeah I think Minfilia should have remained herself and had the autonomy to sacrifice herself. -
09-11-2024, 05:07 PMJeeqbitFirstly, aside from having the aetherial strength of an Ascian, she was not actually as strong as, say, Zodiark without having sundered them. And perhaps the spell she had used to sunder everything taxed her when it was undone somehow (this is implied a lot throughout the MSQ, but not entirely clear why it's then fine for her to die). Either way, she was not quite as strong as she presented herself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Willemdarke
She could have used the aether from that mothercrystal, but her "deeply sympathetic, self-sacrificing" behaviour led her to leave that aether alone for the future.
In any case, she was weak enough from defending the WoL from Ultima that she needed more aether and Minfilia provided it. In order to release Minfilia, Urianger thought of a way to provide Hydaelyn with a boon of aether of the variety she needs - a complete set of elemental crystals like the ones we collect to form the blessing of light, or that we see in the trial and in the depiction of the elementally sundered shards.
She did. Hydaelyn needed help and Minfilia sacrificed herself immediately in ARR, since she knew Hydaelyn helped the WoL a lot.Quote:
Minfilia should have remained herself and had the autonomy to sacrifice herself.
After she was released by Hydaelyn, she was given a choice by Urianger to go to The First. But every single person there knew she would choose to go to The First willingly. So Urianger was a bit treacherous in forcing this choice on her, but it was completely within Minfilia's character to be self-sacrificing for the greater good anyway.
Since going to another shard the way she did requires shedding flesh, that made her like an Ascian but she could have continued living. She decided to sacrifice herself instead for real this time to help Ryne.
So she had this autonomy 3 times and sort of lived through it the first 2. -
09-13-2024, 12:44 AMFuturePastNowThey're definitely going to do something with that crown. I have my own theory. You know how there were two of Otis- the "real" Otis soul and memories in the robot body, and the one in LM that I would call a "re-creation from memory." We know that the Sphene we interacted with was more like the latter- she was a being constructed from the memories of others. But in the dungeon Alexandria, one of the background NPCs shouts "They've done it! They've preserved the Queen's..." My theory is that the original Sphene's soul and memories were preserved in that crown too (and if they really want to take the story to a dark place, aware and unable to do anything but watch).Quote:
Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye
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09-13-2024, 12:52 AMhonest_psycho
I don't care where we are going as long as the current writers are replaced.
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09-13-2024, 06:40 AMStormChaseMy theory's that it's like the Amon clone situation. The Ascians took Sphene's soul so they could awaken it without her memories influencing her. Meanwhile the Endless Sphene was left behind. Maybe the Ascians thought Everkeep would eventually fall like Allag. Or maybe Everkeep was convenient for them somehow (Were they planning to gather up the souls from the Thirteenth?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye
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09-15-2024, 12:44 AMZelda206
The next thing? "Speak to Wuk Lamat".
I might tear my hair out, but at least I'm braced for it this time. -
09-15-2024, 01:35 AMVolgia
My guess is we might hang out with Y'shtola since she's in charge of peeking into other shards. That being said there's an implication that Alexandria has been enticing or stealing souls from other shards, so we might see that later?
There might be more to Solution 9, as Dawntrail story might end in 7.3, but I don't know if Yoshi P said that we're back at finishing the expansion in the x.3 patch.