The Rising made me realize something.

Standing in Limsa, in the rain, listening to the echo of Hydaelyn as if calling from this distance stirred something in me and made me a bit sad.

When I first heard that echoing melody it was during 1.0, when Dalamud was about to fall and there was a certain energy in the air. If you played during that time you would remember that the feeling was almost electric. We had no idea what was going on, the game was about to be rebooted, there were mysteries in front of us, urgently waiting to be discovered and on the final day of that version, Bahamut broke free and ravaged the lands we called home for over a year at that point. It created emotion and bonded us together, it made us care.

Now, after the endwalker campaign I feel they stripped so much of that wonder away. There is no sense of urgency, there is no sense of mystery. That slight unease that made you read every word with bated breath is just...gone.

Hydaelyn, Zodiarc, the Ascians, even the Twelve are just...gone. They even neutured the threat of the savage beast tribes. The world just doesn't feel mysterious. It doesn't feel dangerous. It doesn't feel like anything. A world that was once looming, with strange creatures, hidden dieties, undecifered riddles, beastman threats, ....now feels empty.

The future is a blank slate, but all DT taught us is that, there is nothing out there to really make us wonder. I am not theorizing and trying to put the pieces together about what may be coming next. I am just hoping they don't muck it up and make Mercidia into a slapstick episode of captain kangaroo, a mockery of the world that once was, like they did the new world.

I don't think we need another world ending threat, but we need mystery, we need intrigue, we need something other than this sad sanitized world.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Standing in Limsa, in the rain, listening to the echo of Hydaelyn as if calling from this distance stirred something in me and made me a bit sad.

When I first heard that echoing melody it was during 1.0, when Dalamud was about to fall and there was a certain energy in the air. If you played during that time you would remember that the feeling was almost electric. We had no idea what was going on, the game was about to be rebooted, there were mysteries in front of us, urgently waiting to be discovered and on the final day of that version, Bahamut broke free and ravaged the lands we called home for over a year at that point. It created emotion and bonded us together, it made us care.

Now, after the endwalker campaign I feel they stripped so much of that wonder away. There is no sense of urgency, there is no sense of mystery. That slight unease that made you read every word with bated breath is just...gone.

Hydaelyn, Zodiarc, the Ascians, even the Twelve are just...gone. They even neutured the threat of the savage beast tribes. The world just doesn't feel mysterious. It doesn't feel dangerous. It doesn't feel like anything. A world that was once looming, with strange creatures, hidden dieties, undecifered riddles, beastman threats, ....now feels empty.

The future is a blank slate, but all DT taught us is that, there is nothing out there to really make us wonder. I am not theorizing and trying to put the pieces together about what may be coming next. I am just hoping they don't muck it up and make Mercidia into a slapstick episode of captain kangaroo, a mockery of the world that once was, like they did the new world.

I don't think we need another world ending threat, but we need mystery, we need intrigue, we need something other than this sad sanitized world.

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I envy you. Whilst I've seen several legacy players say that players who didn't experience 1.0 shouldn't lament that fact, it does feel as if those events, particularly the 'ending', have become the stuff of legend (so-to-speak). I've seen the videos on YouTube - it must really have really been something to have actually been there as it occurred.
But I do question whether that atmosphere could ever be recaptured in quite the same way as it was a pretty unique set of circumstances.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Hydaelyn, Zodiarc, the Ascians, even the Twelve are just...gone. They even neutured the threat of the savage beast tribes. The world just doesn't feel mysterious. It doesn't feel dangerous. It doesn't feel like anything. A world that was once looming, with strange creatures, hidden dieties, undecifered riddles, beastman threats, ....now feels empty.

The future is a blank slate, but all DT taught us is that, there is nothing out there to really make us wonder. I am not theorizing and trying to put the pieces together about what may be coming next. I am just hoping they don't muck it up and make Mercidia into a slapstick episode of captain kangaroo, a mockery of the world that once was, like they did the new world.

I don't think we need another world ending threat, but we need mystery, we need intrigue, we need something other than this sad sanitized world.

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It's been something that's steadily been chipped away even since before Endwalker came out, I feel. We don't have an antagonistic force looming in the background anymore with the Garleans and Ascians gone, and we have no political enemies to speak of. Most problems that have been a part of the identity of the starting City States are seemingly resolved, or not talked about anymore. They seemingly have scrubbed away any rough edges in this world, one piece at a time.

This is the first time I've had no idea where the story is going, but simultaneously I can barely speculate on any of it either, and my confidence in the current writing team is just not high enough to expect anything truly exciting, mysterious, or dangerous. I really want to be proven wrong.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I envy you. Whilst I've seen several legacy players say that players who didn't experience 1.0 shouldn't lament that fact, it does feel as if those events, particularly the 'ending', have become the stuff of legend (so-to-speak). I've seen the videos on YouTube - it must really have really been something to have actually been there as it occurred.
But I do question whether that atmosphere could ever be recaptured in quite the same way as it was a pretty unique set of circumstances.

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While the game was truly busted and in a horrible state, Yoshida and team did a great job of actuallty making us care about the world. We knew the reboot was coming and those of us who stuck with it were the ones who were already invested and the story they crafted for us up to the end was fantastic. That whole final day was something that can never be recaptured and that final night, the moment Dalamud fell and we saw that cinematic of Bahamut breaking free for the first time was the most incredible moment of any game I have ever experienced. It solidified my love for the world, the game, the lore, everything. I made me more invested than I have been in any other game. Which is why i think I am taking DT a little more personally than I should. The way they are showing just pure indifference for the world they created, the way they poo'd on the lore, not only in DT but also in EW when they had us not only meet but kill the Twelve and rushed the end of the Hyd/Zod story, the way they just completely sanitized the entirety of the game makes me feel, in a way, personally insulted.

Sadly, this is what happens when your writers get tired/steer the narrative away from your vision. Shadowbringers moved the narrative in a direction Yoshi-P wasn't really ready for, hence all of the tomfoolery and chicanery around Venat/Hydaelyn (Yeah I'm still willing to beat that horse).

This is also a big part of the reason why they pitched Endwalker as a conclusion. Its actual purpose was to conclude this direction that Yoshi-P doesn't like.

Of course, they'd brought enough Chekhov's Guns to the table that they really have to commit to getting rid of them/they didn't really setup the narrative to have its major antagonists rug pulled. They rug pulled the Garleans in 5.0, turning towards the long awaited truth of the Ascians. All the narrative drives towards them in an all consuming way, and they had the audacity to end their arc by 6.0 base conclusion.

Now there's just the guns and no table. All that's left is to integrate/explain away the guns one by one while trying to setup something new.

Where we've hit is a point where we were deeply, grossly invested but they took away everything we were invested in. It's now even happening to the good guy cast with the Scion cardboard cut outs. They really expect us to eat our food off the floor in this restaurant.

Kinda makes me want them to kill them all off so they stop debasing them.

With Dawntrail it really does feel like the devs/writers have "written themselves into a corner" of sorts and don't know how to get out of it. Shadowbringers really pushed and hyped up the "Final Days" that mostly annihilated the ancient and ultimately lead to the summoning of Zodiark, and in Endwalker it was reduced to...a minor inconvenience that we solved in no time at all.

"But we learned what caused the final days, so of course we'd go solve it as fast as we can!"

Sure, we did, and that, to me personally, is the problem: nothing was given anytime to actually build up to anything. We learn what caused the final days at the end of Zone 5, and nip the problem in the bud immediately at the end of Zone 6. Not only that, the writers/devs only gave us Zones 5 and 6, or about maybe 2-6 hours of story depending on the player, to try and GENUINELY convince us that Meteion, a character brought from out of nowhere, is worth being "The Penultimate Threat" of their 10-year story. Nothing in Endwalker was given much time to build, because the devs HAD to move to the next plot point as fast as possible. I hated Endwalker for the sole purpose that there was so much story that COULD'VE been there, but wasn't because they ultimately decided "quantity of stuff in story over quality of stuff in story", and now Dawntrail falls into the same category, but somehow they did even worse. The "Rite of succession was constantly pushed to be this massive thing during the Fanfest and Keynotes.....and it's completely finished in 3 zones. The story suddenly goes from "Help Wuk Win The Rite of Succession" to "Help Wuk Stop A AI Robot From Genociding Everyone!"...and that entire story completely resolves perfectly in 3 zones as well.

With Dawntrail they had a completely blank slate for a new story, and unfortunately Endwalker's ending was written so "perfectly" with solving most of the worlds' big issues that they just kind of have to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks going forward. Endwalker was world ending threat that was ultimately beaten by the power of friendship, Endwalker post-patch was world ending threat that was beaten by the power of friendship again, and now Dawntrail is...another world ending threat that is, once again, beaten by the power of friendship. What is post-patch going to be: yet ANOTHER world ending threat that is beaten by the power of friendship? Is this going to continue into 8.0, but this time we go to yet another shard, or maybe ANOTHER TIMELINE, and beat THEIR world ending threat with the power of friendship? Hard to take any "stakes" seriously when it's solved the exact same way again, and again, and again in as short a time as possible.

I don't have much faith in the devs/writers in their "world-building", or ability to give us actually "stakes" going forward, if it's going to be at the same quality as their current writing, and I am just hoping they can prove me wrong.

I will say it every chance it's relevant: Endwalker should have been two expansions. An Ilsabard expansion dealing with the final defeat of the Garlean Empire and the political fallout from that event, which then would lead into an expansion dealing with the Final Days and solving the fate of the Ancients. Both these stories needed far more time than they got. I liked Endwalker but it also drives me insane at how rushed it all was. I really liked us going from fighting Garlemald to rescuing them from crisis. I'm one of the players that LOVED "In From The Cold" and wished it had more consequence than it ended up having. I really like the concept of Meteion and learning the truth of the Ancient world and how things came to be. Endwalker gave me so many things I love and yet it also disappointed me at how little breathing room it had. It's such a love/hate relationship.

And then with the patch content, especially the Myths of the Realm raid, it just felt like this slap in the face of all of the world building and lore I'd come to love and get invested in over the years. It's not even that we got our answers to the mysteries--it's that as soon as we got our answers, anything and everyone involved in those answers is killed off and shoved off stage. No chance for further story. No chance to have our answers point us in a new direction and lead us to more story. The solving of one mystery could easily lead into another. Getting an answer to a mystery doesn't have to be unsatisfying if its done well. But they really did just decide to solve everything, and now there's no mystery.

Tempering? Oh that's just warped creation magic the Ascians taught people. We can fix it now. Except when we forget we can fix it.

Hydaelyn and Zodiark? We finally get to see them and speak to them! What could that mean for the future of-- Aaaaand they're dead, never mind.

The Twelve? Oh yeah, those were Hydaelyn's old buddies. Technically they already died, she just made some imaginary friends from the remnants of their souls she ate to become Hydaelyn in the first place. Interesting concept though, if you think about it. But we won't explore that at all. All the gods are now suicidal for some reason except for one because Hydaelyn is gone, I guess. Oh, you wanted them to matter or do anything? No, see, that's part of the old lore and the Ancients, and even though we made a whole expansion about hope and perseverance and that life is beautiful and worth living, all of the ancient characters and anything related to them have to die now, because...uh...mankind is worthy now! We don't need them anymore, so they might as well die, apparently! (can you tell I hate how they handled a lot of these characters?)

The Ascians are the only thing that still has a single shred of mystery, as we haven't met all of the remaining ones, nor do we know the fate of all of them. This is why I'm so annoyed when people say stuff like "I'm so tired of the Ascians, can't we move on from them already?" They are single remaining plot thread and shred of mystery from the base game we have left and have been the antagonists since 1.0. Everything else, including most of the Ascians, are done and over and wrapped up and shipped off, never to be seen again.

What did Dawntrail introduce to fill this void? Nothing. We wrapped up just about everything. There's some lingering questions on what to do with the people of Solution 9 and their horrible regulator system, I guess? That's not really a threat or mysterious, though. We have the Azem Grail, but there's not much urgency or mystery behind it, because we already know what it does.

What is mysterious about Tural? Nothing. We solved every mystery it (barely) gave us. What is dangerous about Tural? Nothing. We killed the one war-mongering guy and stopped the extra-dimensional AI teenager that appeared and wanted to eat everyone's souls. Tural doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy nation because it lacks this mystique and wonder all the other nations have. It feels like a Disneyland dark ride with a companion in the same seat as you that won't shut up the entire ride.

I really feel like we should be looking at correcting the problems on the other 13 shards, or trying to find anyway to maybe finish what the Ascians started since the original threat of The Endsinger is gone, there really is not real reason not to do the rejoining.

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Originally Posted by CuteBucket

What did Dawntrail introduce to fill this void? Nothing. We wrapped up just about everything. There's some lingering questions on what to do with the people of Solution 9 and their horrible regulator system, I guess? That's not really a threat or mysterious, though. We have the Azem Grail, but there's not much urgency or mystery behind it, because we already know what it does.

What is mysterious about Tural? Nothing. We solved every mystery it (barely) gave us. What is dangerous about Tural? Nothing. We killed the one war-mongering guy and stopped the extra-dimensional AI teenager that appeared and wanted to eat everyone's souls. Tural doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy nation because it lacks this mystique and wonder all the other nations have. It feels like a Disneyland dark ride with a companion in the same seat as you that won't shut up the entire ride.

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What stings is so many of the questions left unanswered are mostly stuff that someone should have questioned immediately or knew the answer to. Nobody did simply because the plot didn't want us to and moved us along to the next thing.

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Originally Posted by CuteBucket

The Twelve? Oh yeah, those were Hydaelyn's old buddies. Technically they already died, she just made some imaginary friends from the remnants of their souls she ate to become Hydaelyn in the first place. Interesting concept though, if you think about it. But we won't explore that at all. All the gods are now suicidal for some reason except for one because Hydaelyn is gone, I guess. Oh, you wanted them to matter or do anything? No, see, that's part of the old lore and the Ancients, and even though we made a whole expansion about hope and perseverance and that life is beautiful and worth living, all of the ancient characters and anything related to them have to die now, because...uh...mankind is worthy now! We don't need them anymore, so they might as well die, apparently! (can you tell I hate how they handled a lot of these characters?)

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Hard agree on some of the Twelve. Most of them ended up ranging from harmlessly milquetoast to downright insulting if you know anything about some of their followers. The designs were decent though.

It's a difficult topic to reflect on, but I think the general consensus here is right. I am another 1.0 bittervet that's been through the whole story. I remember the old cutscenes that had Ascians before the were even Ascians and I remember the dream sequences of the White Raven murdering all our friends. Dalamud fell and Bahamut claimed the land.

Throughout all of 2.0 right up to Endwalker, we had a multi-pronged attack from the Ascians and their machinations, the primals and beast tribe engagement, and the Garlean's continued push to domination. Some elements were moved to the frontline for parts of the story, others took a backseat, but we had a good mix of unique threats and intrigue to explore.

Endwalker took every single one and laid them to rest. We've got literally nothing left, like, the world is basically peachy. Any future threat just feels so singular and contrived - sure we had the threat of Alexandria in Dawntrail but... We're the WoL, slayer of deities, the partially restored remnant of a bygone superrace - I'm really not scared of a threat like that.

I think they've ran out of road narratively and I don't see where we go from here but down. It's sad to say but I do think we're on the twilight of FFXIV's life at this point. The fact that they're not even willing to take gameplay risks if the story quality is going to diminish only cements this feeling further.

The only mystery I can think of here at 3 am doom scrolling in bed is meracidia.... But we know a decent chunk about the place already as it was referenced over the years.

We know bahamut was a result of meracidia. They had a war with the allagans. The warring triad originated from there. Emet selch wanted us to go there so we will probably after DT.

So unless the writers pull something out of their ass, we know that they will probably not like us when we get there, there's gonna be a big bad thing for us to fight as a lvl 93 trial boss, lots of allagan resentment, probably get to meet dragons that know tiamat and stuff like that and learn about dragons we already know.

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

I really feel like we should be looking at correcting the problems on the other 13 shards, or trying to find anyway to maybe finish what the Ascians started since the original threat of The Endsinger is gone, there really is not real reason not to do the rejoining.

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Well 6, the rest were already absorbed into the source. 1st 4th 8th 9th 11th and 13th are all that are left iirc