Is it just me? (Viper)

Now I’m not saying it unplayable but I feel like it’s bad. Idk is it just me please inform me if there is a strategy behind the job.
No mobility while defensive ask for a beat down. God forbid you see a white mage or a monk or even a RPR. Then you just wasted that button and you life. It’s a good button but gets hard countered so easily.
The job has damage but it’s time to kill seems longer and more grueling then RPR and I can fight with RPR but VPR it’s a maybe or will your friends help.
Not exactly asking for more damage but the kits is too slow for what it doesn’t have.
And on that note people can just walk away from you while you try to do dmg. That’s crazy, and I know the LB has a heavy an amazing heavy(sarcasm). But that’s it I can 0-100 almost any job with DRG who doesn’t have cc in a solid amount of time. For job that usually can’t like Sam. They have a stun and a bind to allow them time.
Also the kit feel like I’m just flailing my arms around no real cohesion, sure every oGCD you get more gauge but I just don’t see the path way for victory with the kit.
I dual, I CC, I frontline, I strike the dummy but still don’t see a path

I have more to say but I’ll hold back for now

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Originally Posted by Vatom

Now I’m not saying it unplayable but I feel like it’s bad. Idk is it just me please inform me if there is a strategy behind the job.
No mobility while defensive ask for a beat down. God forbid you see a white mage or a monk or even a RPR. Then you just wasted that button and you life. It’s a good button but gets hard countered so easily.
The job has damage but it’s time to kill seems longer and more grueling then RPR and I can fight with RPR but VPR it’s a maybe or will your friends help.
Not exactly asking for more damage but the kits is too slow for what it doesn’t have.
And on that note people can just walk away from you while you try to do dmg. That’s crazy, and I know the LB has a heavy an amazing heavy(sarcasm). But that’s it I can 0-100 almost any job with DRG who doesn’t have cc in a solid amount of time. For job that usually can’t like Sam. They have a stun and a bind to allow them time.
Also the kit feel like I’m just flailing my arms around no real cohesion, sure every oGCD you get more gauge but I just don’t see the path way for victory with the kit.
I dual, I CC, I frontline, I strike the dummy but still don’t see a path

I have more to say but I’ll hold back for now

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As a WAR who naturally comes into contact with a lot of enemy melee, I can say I'm a lot more worried if a gaggle of NIN or MNK is coming for me. Not clear to me if that's because people have less experience with Viper or it's intrinsically weak.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

As a WAR who naturally comes into contact with a lot of enemy melee, I can say I'm a lot more worried if a gaggle of NIN or MNK is coming for me. Not clear to me if that's because people have less experience with Viper or it's intrinsically weak.

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I agree I just don’t see their strength
I seems to elude to the being a buzz saw but more often then not I can’t secure kills

I'm not sure what to think of Viper. At least in a Frontlines context, I don't do much CC lately.

The thing I love about Viper is that it can Punch through guard. It's impressive just how deadly you can be picking off players who are low HP with guard up, especially after a DRG strike, or a Salted Earth pull. It's got a decent amount of manouverability, and Snake scales I've found uses for despite its limitations.

It might just be that I can play trash classes really well, but I don't have that big of a problem with Viper. Probably just personal preference since I'm on and off with PvP lately. I can see it being lacking in CC, but I'll leave that up to people who are ranking with them to decide.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

I'm not sure what to think of Viper. At least in a Frontlines context, I don't do much CC lately.

The thing I love about Viper is that it can Punch through guard. It's impressive just how deadly you can be picking off players who are low HP with guard up, especially after a DRG strike, or a Salted Earth pull. It's got a decent amount of manouverability, and Snake scales I've found uses for despite its limitations.

It might just be that I can play trash classes really well, but I don't have that big of a problem with Viper. Probably just personal preference since I'm on and off with PvP lately. I can see it being lacking in CC, but I'll leave that up to people who are ranking with them to decide.

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It feels too limited to me again not ask to be a god but this seems a little too much that even I former crystal (not to flex but to see where I’m at) can’t see to find its niche or a solid victory path

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Originally Posted by Vatom

Now I’m not saying it unplayable but I feel like it’s bad. Idk is it just me please inform me if there is a strategy behind the job.
No mobility while defensive ask for a beat down. God forbid you see a white mage or a monk or even a RPR. Then you just wasted that button and you life. It’s a good button but gets hard countered so easily.
The job has damage but it’s time to kill seems longer and more grueling then RPR and I can fight with RPR but VPR it’s a maybe or will your friends help.
Not exactly asking for more damage but the kits is too slow for what it doesn’t have.
And on that note people can just walk away from you while you try to do dmg. That’s crazy, and I know the LB has a heavy an amazing heavy(sarcasm). But that’s it I can 0-100 almost any job with DRG who doesn’t have cc in a solid amount of time. For job that usually can’t like Sam. They have a stun and a bind to allow them time.
Also the kit feel like I’m just flailing my arms around no real cohesion, sure every oGCD you get more gauge but I just don’t see the path way for victory with the kit.
I dual, I CC, I frontline, I strike the dummy but still don’t see a path

I have more to say but I’ll hold back for now

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You want to use your ranged ability on cooldown and your defensive resets pro-actively for damage or to keep yourself slightly safe until you can rotate again.

I hope that helps the quality of your games somewhat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vatom

Now I’m not saying it unplayable but I feel like it’s bad. Idk is it just me please inform me if there is a strategy behind the job.
No mobility while defensive ask for a beat down. God forbid you see a white mage or a monk or even a RPR. Then you just wasted that button and you life. It’s a good button but gets hard countered so easily.
The job has damage but it’s time to kill seems longer and more grueling then RPR and I can fight with RPR but VPR it’s a maybe or will your friends help.
Not exactly asking for more damage but the kits is too slow for what it doesn’t have.
And on that note people can just walk away from you while you try to do dmg. That’s crazy, and I know the LB has a heavy an amazing heavy(sarcasm). But that’s it I can 0-100 almost any job with DRG who doesn’t have cc in a solid amount of time. For job that usually can’t like Sam. They have a stun and a bind to allow them time.
Also the kit feel like I’m just flailing my arms around no real cohesion, sure every oGCD you get more gauge but I just don’t see the path way for victory with the kit.
I dual, I CC, I frontline, I strike the dummy but still don’t see a path

I have more to say but I’ll hold back for now

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I feel you brother. Literally getting the same vibes. VPR currently feels like RPR when CC first started. CC is pretty much all about burst and cctrl - VPR “can’t” do either. It does sustained dmg (and has no real cctrl), which is useless when your (casual) team can’t capitalize. TBH probably not even gonna bother with VPR (don’t even get me started on PCT) in ranked. It has no carry potential IMO.

To be fair, both new classes are good at FL. But they both fall short in CC. I feel like the devs just made their toolkits to counter DRKS.

I’ve tried playing VPR with different approaches but at this point I feel like VPR is just supposed to tank, assist and bait enemy burst; not secure kills unless they’re in guard and very low HP. Which is a horrible playstyle because if your team is bad, nobody will capitalize. I could be playing it wrong. But it just feels bad like you said.

Also #buff BRD 2024.

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

I feel you brother. Literally getting the same vibes. VPR currently feels like RPR when CC first started. CC is pretty much all about burst and cctrl - VPR “can’t” do either. It does sustained dmg (and has no real cctrl), which is useless when your (casual) team can’t capitalize. TBH probably not even gonna bother with VPR (don’t even get me started on PCT) in ranked. It has no carry potential IMO.

To be fair, both new classes are good at FL. But they both fall short in CC. I feel like the devs just made their toolkits to counter DRKS.

I’ve tried playing VPR with different approaches but at this point I feel like VPR is just supposed to tank, assist and bait enemy burst; not secure kills unless they’re in guard and very low HP. Which is a horrible playstyle because if your team is bad, nobody will capitalize. I could be playing it wrong. But it just feels bad like you said.

Also #buff BRD 2024.

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I don’t want to give up on it cause it was a class I wished for but man it’s hard to want to play with you keep slapping with jojo speed only to get nothing out of it

Never use the basic combo and watch viper become quite a good damage dealer, since you'll build your gauge way faster.
it's very mobile with high burst damage, and it has guard breaking so your targets can't deal too well. Nice pick-off potential due to the isolation property on ranged and frequent LB.

It's really quite comfortable, but you can't be in there brawling and going bananas like some of the other melee.

Viper is pretty much an ult bot. It does a ton of aoe damage with vuln and the cooldown on it is only 90 seconds. If you're not using it on every engagement, or every other engagement, you're playing Viper wrong. If you're not immediately hitting the crystals on your side of the map with LB, regardless of big or small, What are you doing? LB, guard, watch them blow everything on you and just dash back to your team, or if they retreat hit your buttons and kill them with your team since they all have vuln up and heavy.

In duels it's a lot of guess work on using your defensive with the enemy. You can survive most long duels thanks to having basically three guards to stall for mana.

I just hope that this isn't the direction they are going to change all other jobs into cause VPR+PCT aren't the most fun to play in CC right now.
Like that one button that refreshes 2 other buttons on a 60s timer has to go and the trance LB feels awkward to use and needs rework. But hopefully they will notice the play-rate is in the gutter for those jobs in CC to get the hint

I'm pretty confident that VPR and PCT are both in a temporary state ahead of their actual designs coming in 7.1 with the rest of the new expansion PvP patch, much like RPR and SGE were in 6.1.

They might have some similar actions but I expect they'll get pretty considerable adjustments along with many other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

Viper is pretty much an ult bot. It does a ton of aoe damage with vuln and the cooldown on it is only 90 seconds. If you're not using it on every engagement, or every other engagement, you're playing Viper wrong. If you're not immediately hitting the crystals on your side of the map with LB, regardless of big or small, What are you doing? LB, guard, watch them blow everything on you and just dash back to your team, or if they retreat hit your buttons and kill them with your team since they all have vuln up and heavy.

In duels it's a lot of guess work on using your defensive with the enemy. You can survive most long duels thanks to having basically three guards to stall for mana.

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I’ll give the lb spam a shot

Lemme preface by saying that I was thinking VPR, before release, to be a more frenetic NIN that's expected to stay in, and to help it with that it may have some form of pinch dodging iframey-like thing instead of heavy warding, maybe even baked into the LB. We kind of got that with Snake Scales; a budget Attunement with a few too many curiosities foiling its use than it's worth (half-asleep cast before using it will cancel it upon sleep, poly generally being able to affect it, among other things), but overall, was amused that it's a lot like how I expected it to play. I also thought it'd have a fast LB, which it does. Personally I would NOT want it to change too much from its initial trappings, but rather just see some refinements done to its preliminary implementation instead (such as haste buff first... goddamn I wish the haste was first rather than the damage up...)

Preface over with, I don't really understand some of the complaints around this job. Maybe I just have a penchant for the misunderstood jobs (RDM in the old pvp build /beam) but it isn't really all that bad. It can really punch holes when it can seize the opportunity with dual Uncoileds, and... well as much as it's cute "advice", you're gonna need snap observations for those said opportunities. Imo the AoE variant of the move is a waste, I move in when I see someone that'll take damage as a single unit and snipe them down.

Other than that uhhh... it's kind of just an acquired taste really. Don't blow your dashes for short distances, run up if you can so you can boost damage at a better time and those dashes can also keep you safe. They're a valuable resource, you'll really feel the drag when you're all spent using them willy-nilly. Keep your uptime relatively consistent so buffs don't fall off and gun it for the LB phases. If you land all your hits your LB bar will already be a third of the way full by the time it's done, and that means about a 30 sec wait (with near perfect uptime) to the next one.

I think the one "issue" I have is that sometimes it can get tiring to play with how fast and furious it is compared to most anything else in this atm lol, but it's a good kind of tired. It'd suck to see it changed too much, which is my lowkey reason for posting. It's a pretty fun job for those that want fast fast fast.

personally I just wish the lb applied bind instead of heavy

Viper is fun to play but it’s definitively mediocre compared to the rest of the jobs.

VPR’s damage is “mid” for team fights but strong for 1v1 skirmishes requiring “situational” conditions to fully maximize it’s kit. Having its damage boost tied to its gap closer also acts as a “double edged sword” similar to DNC in terms of decision making.

VPR suffers from “delayed” damage because of its longer attack animations via limit break giving players ample time to react.

Its only defensive mitigation roots you in place and makes you unable to act until reactivated. Which as a melee job can be extremely difficult to work with.

VPR is ultimately a “momentum” based job relying on kills/assists to fully maximize its potential. Dying is much more detrimental and punishing compared to other jobs.

Again, wait for 7.1
When Samurai first introduced, 3.0 version and 3.1 version are two totally different jobs

there's also the small eternity between actually pressing Ouroboros and the damage tick actually happening (yeah I know I can make it happen faster with any ogcd but this really shouldn't be a issue I have to deal with)