How does a reaper major feels about reaper in 7.05 now and how it can be improved

(English is not my first language but i am trying to make it clear and easy to understand)

Hi, I am a melee dps player who have played all melee dps(include viper) for a long time. I started to play RPR since Endwalker and I regard RPR as my major. I can tell you without lying that I have been played Rpr at least 2000 hours.

The negative impact of the 7.0 update on RPR’s rotation:
Since a new wp skill perfectio has been added to rpr’s rotation once per 2 mins, and it doesnt gain any Soul guage or shroud guage, eventhough harvest moon now can gain 10 soul, RPR will still lose 10 sould per 2 minutes since the second 2mins rotation comparing with the rotation in end walker. Which means, in dawn trail, rpr with 420 skill speed can just only enough to save 50 shroud to hit 2 communions into its 8 min’s arcane circle . However there are lots of mechanics in new savage that force melee to keep away from boss and reaper even sometimes would fail to cast the harpe during proging.

Main concern about RPR: It can easily be replaced by viper
As Vpr is very similar to Rpr, so it is very hard to not making contrast between those two. After 7.05 release I realised that Viper is now already much stronger than Rpr in multiple ways, and Rpr seems has no advantages in any of the aspects comparing to viper.
1. By checking fflogs.com I figured out that viper can do more rdps than reaper in average.
3.Viper is easier to play at 7.05 as viper’s death’s design has been removed, the rotation became easier.
4.No cd between Reawakens but 15s between Enshrouds.
5.vpr doesnt have any cast.
6.Vpr can even do more damge than rpr in peak 20 seconds(in arcane circle, battle litany, ...)

Actually I do not expect Rpr to beat Vpr, however, By thinking for a very long time, there are some ways to make reaper not that bad comparing to vpr.
And i think these update(suggestion) may not change Reaper’s feature and Greatly optimized the operating feel of Reaper.

Not all of them need to be implemented but I really hope some of the or at least one of them can be considered:

1.gain 5 or 10 soul with each cast of shadow of death
2.no cast time of Harpe.
3.Give opportunity to cast harvest moon regularly
4.Gain more maximum charge to Soul Slice from 2 to 3 (this is one of the most resonable way to solve the problem i strongly suggest.)
5.Perfectio gives soul or shroud.
6.Casting cooldown during enshroud can affected by skill speed
7.Remove or shorten the recast time of enshroud(this is also reasonable and strongly reccomend)
8.reduce gluttony cd,(from 60 to 55)
9.Remove prefectio but increase other skills'damage
10.Gluttony only strengthen gallows or gibbet only1 time but give 20 shroud.
11.Increase damge delt of arcane circle from 3% to 5% (please dont leave rpr alone)

I really wish SE develop team can see this thread and take any of these suggestion into considerations.

If anybody has any questions please reply.

Stop asking for jobs to be simpler. Viper already got ruined because of that. There are multiple jobs with a frictionless rotation where you can press whatever you want whenever and don't have anything to manage.

I like Reaper, it's a lot of fun. Viper seems even edgier than Reaper if that makes any sense at all. I would like to use a reason to use harpe more though, but I'm just a casual, maybe it's more used in high end content *shrug*

Also, instead of "major" we normally use "main", so "I'm a reaper main.".

Yet another Parser of Light asking for stuff to be changed/ removed so they can do [number up] slightly better to the detriment of actual gameplay.

if you want frictionless gameplay just play Viper, it's right there:

"no Death's Design," good news, Viper lost Noxious Gash,
"no cast on Harpe," Viper has no casts,
"Cast Harvest Moon more regularly," that would be Uncoiled Fury,
"More shroud gauge," Viper is resource positive while Reaper has always been negative,
"Enshroud cooldown/recast," Reawaken has no cooldown at all,
Viper Gluttony is Vicewinder and has charges so no drift, why stop at 55 when you could have 40?
"Remove Perfectio," Viper has no equivalent,

genuinely my answer to your suggestions is to just switch to Viper, you'll even do more damage in the end.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Stop asking for jobs to be simpler. Viper already got ruined because of that. There are multiple jobs with a frictionless rotation where you can press whatever you want whenever and don't have anything to manage.

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I have never asked Rpr to be simpler. In contrast, I really want it to be harder to complete a nice rotation. Howver, in this thread, I mainly focus on giving suggestion of how to make reaper's skills more reasonable, because I already finish progging m1- 4s using Ninja, Drag, Viper and reaper, I have a big quotation mark about the new weapon cast adding to reaper but lots of old and weird features is still there.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I like Reaper, it's a lot of fun. Viper seems even edgier than Reaper if that makes any sense at all. I would like to use a reason to use harpe more though, but I'm just a casual, maybe it's more used in high end content *shrug*

Also, instead of "major" we normally use "main", so "I'm a reaper main.".

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Thank you for telling me that :)

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Yet another Parser of Light asking for stuff to be changed/ removed so they can do [number up] slightly better to the detriment of actual gameplay.

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Yes i know it is hard to balaence these jobs and thats why i was giving suggestions instead of being a mad guy telling them what to do

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

if you want frictionless gameplay just play Viper, it's right there:

"no Death's Design," good news, Viper lost Noxious Gash,
"no cast on Harpe," Viper has no casts,
"Cast Harvest Moon more regularly," that would be Uncoiled Fury,
"More shroud gauge," Viper is resource positive while Reaper has always been negative,
"Enshroud cooldown/recast," Reawaken has no cooldown at all,
Viper Gluttony is Vicewinder and has charges so no drift, why stop at 55 when you could have 40?
"Remove Perfectio," Viper has no equivalent,

genuinely my answer to your suggestions is to just switch to Viper, you'll even do more damage in the end.

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That is what am i going to do exactly if there is no optimistic change on Rpr in comming patch (7.08maybe).

I have never asked Rpr to be simpler. In contrast, I really want it to be harder to complete a nice rotation. Howver, in this thread, I mainly focus on giving suggestion of how to make reaper's skills more reasonable, because I already finish progging m1- 4s using Ninja, Drag, Viper and reaper, I have a big quotation mark about the new weapon cast adding to reaper but lots of old and weird features is still there.

All of your problems can be solved be speaking to Wuk'Lamat

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Originally Posted by KorosKenzun

3.Give opportunity to cast harvest moon regularly

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I think it would be interesting to find a way of recharging HM outside of downtime, since HM can also be used during burst when it's not required for disengages. Perhaps giving one charge per Gluttony cast, after gaining X amount of gauge or doing something specific in the rotation?

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Originally Posted by KorosKenzun

5.Perfectio gives soul or shroud.

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Giving 10 Shroud would be my choice to also help the job a bit when there's more downtime, such as in Ultimates. Gauge jobs like RPR, RDM, MCH, and now VPR do have their strengths in this kind of content, since they can bank more gauge for relevant phases but also lose more damage when they can't attack due to having no way of upping their gauge a bit like SAM for instance.

This doesn't mean they should be homogenized but instead they could each get an extra unique tool or two to generate a tiny bit extra to deal with these situations.

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Originally Posted by KorosKenzun

8.reduce gluttony cd,(from 60 to 55)

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This could help with drift so why not.

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Originally Posted by KorosKenzun

11.Increase damge delt of arcane circle from 3% to 5% (please dont leave rpr alone)

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Doing this means RPR doing less personal damage. I think it's fine as it is. RPR is a job with more personal damage than the average (below the non-buffing jobs and above the buffing ones) with the theoretical tradeoff of having less rDPS.


As for the rest of your points, I either disagree or am indifferent. Reducing the CD of Enshroud could be good in some ways but not so much in others.

While I agree that some QoL would be nice, there's also the consideration that the job works perfectly as it is right now and that choosing when to deadzone or when to deal with what's given is also part of the fun of playing it.

As a newer job, RPR doesn't require as much as other jobs would although it'd be nice if they got their ceiling raised a bit more so that its main complexity wasn't mostly double Enshroud windows.

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Originally Posted by Aco505

I think it would be interesting to find a way of recharging HM outside of downtime, since HM can also be used during burst when it's not required for disengages. Perhaps giving one charge per Gluttony cast, after gaining X amount of gauge or doing something specific in the rotation?



Giving 10 Shroud would be my choice to also help the job a bit when there's more downtime, such as in Ultimates. Gauge jobs like RPR, RDM, MCH, and now VPR do have their strengths in this kind of content, since they can bank more gauge for relevant phases but also lose more damage when they can't attack due to having no way of upping their gauge a bit like SAM for instance.

This doesn't mean they should be homogenized but instead they could each get an extra unique tool or two to generate a tiny bit extra to deal with these situations.



This could help with drift so why not.



Doing this means RPR doing less personal damage. I think it's fine as it is. RPR is a job with more personal damage than the average (below the non-buffing jobs and above the buffing ones) with the theoretical tradeoff of having less rDPS.


As for the rest of your points, I either disagree or am indifferent. Reducing the CD of Enshroud could be good in some ways but not so much in others.

While I agree that some QoL would be nice, there's also the consideration that the job works perfectly as it is right now and that choosing when to deadzone or when to deal with what's given is also part of the fun of playing it.

As a newer job, RPR doesn't require as much as other jobs would although it'd be nice if they got their ceiling raised a bit more so that its main complexity wasn't mostly double Enshroud windows.

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Thank you for agreeing with some of my suggestions. I also want to mention that these ideas of mine did not come out of thin air. I have also progged using Ast, and I feel ast is a typical job that received positive update in 7.0-7.05. And as i mentioned I also played Ninj, Dragon, Viper for progging, most of the updating suggestions are based on the changing of other job during 7.01-7.05 and I feel like there are a lot of way to improve the position of the rpr among meele dps, and optimizing the feel of doing rpr's rotation but not to make it easier to play like vpr.(the prefectio makes gluttony more impossible to hit in the speak 20s, however sometimes we even need to add a weapon cast(most of the time Soul Slice) to get neough sould to git gluttony. unless you are not doing double enshroud during peak 20s).

Both Viper and Picto have been overpowered so far. Picto especially making BLM feel irrelevant with much easier damage output.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Stop asking for jobs to be simpler. Viper already got ruined because of that. There are multiple jobs with a frictionless rotation where you can press whatever you want whenever and don't have anything to manage.

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This. reaper is fun as is and i'll i'd ask for it is more to do, not less.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

This. reaper is fun as is and i'll i'd ask for it is more to do, not less.

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I strongly agree that reaper has a lot more fun then viper whem doing rotation and dealing with new savage mechanics the reason why I suggest the develop team to remove some features is not trying to make rpr simpler to play, it is trying to make its skills design more reasonable, because the current rotation of reaper comparing with end walker's rotation is more likely to lose the number of enshroud as perfectio doesnt provide any soul.

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Originally Posted by MartinFreeman

Both Viper and Picto have been overpowered so far. Picto especially making BLM feel irrelevant with much easier damage output.

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I feel so sorry for blackmage's current circumstance, however, black mage got buffed and its rotation is currently funnier than 7.0, at least black mage got some optimal update already. I think it is a good start on balancing between casters.btw, i still reckon pic got more fun when doing rotation than viper lol.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

This. reaper is fun as is and i'll i'd ask for it is more to do, not less.

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Exactly i'd ask it to be as well.

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Originally Posted by KorosKenzun

(English is not my first language but i am trying to make it clear and easy to understand)



Main concern about RPR: It can easily be replaced by viper
As Vpr is very similar to Rpr, so it is very hard to not making contrast between those two. After 7.05 release I realised that Viper is now already much stronger than Rpr in multiple ways, and Rpr seems has no advantages in any of the aspects comparing to viper.
1. By checking fflogs.com I figured out that viper can do more rdps than reaper in average.
3.Viper is easier to play at 7.05 as viper’s death’s design has been removed, the rotation became easier.
4.No cd between Reawakens but 15s between Enshrouds.
5.vpr doesnt have any cast.
6.Vpr can even do more damge than rpr in peak 20 seconds(in arcane circle, battle litany, ...)

Actually I do not expect Rpr to beat Vpr, however, By thinking for a very long time, there are some ways to make reaper not that bad comparing to vpr.
And i think these update(suggestion) may not change Reaper’s feature and Greatly optimized the operating feel of Reaper.

Not all of them need to be implemented but I really hope some of the or at least one of them can be considered:

1.Remove shadow of death and gain damge to other skills or gain 5 or 10 soul with each cast
2.Remove cast time of Harpe.
3.Give opportunity to cast harvest moon regularly
4.Gain more maximum charge to Soul Slice from 2 to 3 (this is one of the most resonable way to solve the problem i strongly suggest.)
5.Perfectio gives soul or shroud.
6.Casting cooldown during enshroud can affected by skill speed
7.Remove or shorten the recast time of enshroud(this is also reasonable and strongly reccomend)
8.reduce gluttony cd,(from 60 to 55)
9.Remove prefectio but increase other skills'damage
10.Gluttony only strengthen gallows or gibbet only1 time but give 20 shroud.
11.Increase damge delt of arcane circle from 3% to 5% (please dont leave rpr alone)

I really wish SE develop team can see this thread and take any of these suggestion into considerations.

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In addition, due to words limit for each post, I got one important optimize rpr's rotation:
Remove the additional effects of arcane circle (remove stack sacrifice effects) and let reaper allow to use plentiful immediately after casting arcane circle like what other jobs do instead of waiting for 6 seconds(actually 7 seconds)

I would like to reiterate that I am not proposing to change the rpr because I reckon the current rotation of the rpr is hard. I just think that the current rotation of the rpr comparing with other meele is not reasonable. There are many things about the rpr that can get positive feedback by optimizing its job's characteristics instead of just increasing the damage of skills.

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Originally Posted by KorosKenzun

I strongly agree that reaper has a lot more fun then viper whem doing rotation and dealing with new savage mechanics the reason why I suggest the develop team to remove some features is not trying to make rpr simpler to play, it is trying to make its skills design more reasonable, because the current rotation of reaper comparing with end walker's rotation is more likely to lose the number of enshroud as perfectio doesnt provide any soul.

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Give perfectio soul generation, but i think removing death design is a horrible idea.
I'm massively against square continuing to remove debuffs from the game. Their fear of them has been a bit of a cause of the homogenization i feel, nobody can have dots, nobody can have debuffs to put on enemies, everything has to be a buff on the player or button turns into other button. Dot classes are basically purged from the game other than bard at this point for example, i don't want to see them continue the trend of removing debuffs

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Give perfectio soul generation, but i think removing death design is a horrible idea.
I'm massively against square continuing to remove debuffs from the game. Their fear of them has been a bit of a cause of the homogenization i feel, nobody can have dots, nobody can have debuffs to put on enemies, everything has to be a buff on the player or button turns into other button. Dot classes are basically purged from the game other than bard at this point for example, i don't want to see them continue the trend of removing debuffs

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Indeed, removing debuffs is a horrible idea, thats why i have another suggestion with if keep death sign: gain soul, the biggest issue of reaper is not how hard the rotation is(in contrast the rotation is already quite ez), the issue is as the battle time increases, there will be a soul/ shroud shortage comparing with the rotation in end walker, the appear of perfectio would reduce the number of casting enshroud. I think the design team originally wanted to add this skill(perfectio) to make rpr's rotation more flexible and dealing more damage but it ironically reduce the rdps.

I wonder why many ppl think the reason I posted this thread is trying to make rpr simpler to play.

If you really want rpr to become better, please watch my post carefully, thank you so much.

I have never asked it to be easier. what I did is just giving suggestion to develop team (luckily if they view this thread) on improving rpr's current state and sharing you guys how a rpr main(me) feels about 7.05 update and how would I improve this job By not just simply modifying the damage delt and how The light of vpr has completely obscured rpr.

I do not want reaper to be easier, I hope it's design will be more reasonbale and funnier in the following Dawn Trail patch update.

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Originally Posted by KorosKenzun

I wonder why many ppl think the reason I posted this thread is trying to make rpr simpler to play.

If you really want rpr to become better, please watch my post carefully, thank you so much.

I have never asked it to be easier. what I did is just giving suggestion to develop team (luckily if they view this thread) on improving rpr's current state and sharing you guys how a rpr main(me) feels about 7.05 update and how would I improve this job By not just simply modifying the damage delt and how The light of vpr has completely obscured rpr.

I do not want reaper to be easier, I hope it's design will be more reasonbale and funnier in the following Dawn Trail patch update.

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Because literally everything you suggested makes Reaper easier to play and just a Viper clone on a job with a far slower gcd. And anything skill speed related will never, ever take unless they somehow make communio an instant cast while you have skill speed monk gcds. Which is also trolling btw.

To say it will somehow be harder is delusional at best and obvious trolling at worst.

Just play Viper.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

Because literally everything you suggested makes Reaper easier to play and just a Viper clone on a job with a far slower gcd. And anything skill speed related will never, ever take unless they somehow make communio an instant cast while you have skill speed monk gcds. Which is also trolling btw.

To say it will somehow be harder is delusional at best and obvious trolling at worst.

Just play Viper.

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If it is true that ppl think everything i suggested makes the job easier.
I would say
I surrender. yeah yeah true. I will definitely go viper if no optimize update to 7.08 reaper .Also if this circumstance continue Until 7.1 Lets see how many progging teams aiming ultima eden will pick reaper instead of other meeles. Until that time, not only people, but the development team will finally realise that rpr is actually shit this patch :)
I love playing rpr, it is so cruel to see that even lots of problems on rpr have not been solved but a strong and easy melee just came out and beat rpr effortlessly.

Is it some sort of lost concept to just play the classes/jobs you have fun with instead of worrying about how much better or easier another class/job is or what?

Viper has high personal dps because it brings no utility, even for itself, and Reaper does less damage than it because it does, that's the price it pays because otherwise why bring Viper. More than that, who the hell cares? I don't understand why you would want Reaper to get simplified solely because Viper does more damage for less effort.

I don't need nor want to see Reaper get butchered just because Viper does more damage, that's just ridiculous.

Death's design does not need removing nor does it really need to generate gauge. I'm sick of seeing debuffs and DoT's get axed because some people see ONE ability that actually might need you to rub a braincell against a wrinkle to maintain/use and then proceed to whine.

I'm missing my ears and tail.

That's all.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Is it some sort of lost concept to just play the classes/jobs you have fun with instead of worrying about how much better or easier another class/job is or what?

Viper has high personal dps because it brings no utility, even for itself, and Reaper does less damage than it because it does, that's the price it pays because otherwise why bring Viper. More than that, who the hell cares? I don't understand why you would want Reaper to get simplified solely because Viper does more damage for less effort.

I don't need nor want to see Reaper get butchered just because Viper does more damage, that's just ridiculous.

Death's design does not need removing nor does it really need to generate gauge. I'm sick of seeing debuffs and DoT's get axed because some people see ONE ability that actually might need you to rub a braincell against a wrinkle to maintain/use and then proceed to whine.

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Yes, Thank you for waking me up.
I was worrying too much about his situation, maybe I should just play the game.