Dark Knight is not fun to play

There are already several constructive threads with active conversations, so instead of throwing this where it may be lost in a day, I want to start a new thread that is generally not constructive, but that I don't see echoed clearly for the devs to see at a glance.

Dark Knight feels bad to play.

It feels bad to play in comparison to the other tanks. I'm an omni-tank and I try to invest time in all classes so I understand how they feel/work. That said, Dark Knight in Dawntrail feels like it was designed by developers who have never played the class in a serious capacity, and have not played it long enough to really understand how to play the class beyond hitting a stationary training dummy. Many changes from Endwalker into Dawntrail are not intuitive, don't feel good to play/do, and do not inspire trust in the devs that they know what they're doing when it comes to Dark Knight, specifically. The choices that were made have not been intuitive at best, and outright puzzling and bizarre at worst.

Delirium only giving 3 stacks instead of 5, and yet somehow the devs did not seem to realize that this was a nerf to damage as well as MP regen is one of the examples that point to this. Another example: TBN continues to be overly punishing when other tanks in Dawntrail comparatively have just as good if not better skills to throw on others. Another: From Endwalker, the change to Abyssal Drain to have it share a cooldown with Carve and Spit is a change that does not make sense, and does not feel good if you actually play the class in real content.

Another: Enhanced Unmend. Anyone who plays DRK for any length of time in the actual game would understand that this is a waste of a trait and does not legitimately benefit the play and feel of the class in any significant way. Yet the devs don't seem to agree, which is yet another disconnect and does not inspire trust.

I apologize if I'm coming across overly harsh. This has been an issue for several years now, without any direct acknowledgment or recognition from the devs. It has gotten worse over time, and now there are rumors that the next expansion may have a new tank class.

Respectfully, we should not have any new tank classes introduced if you do not know what to do with Dark Knight and don't know how to fix it.

If anything, it would be nice if the devs could at least acknowledge that there are issues with DRK, so that we know that they're at least aware there's a problem. I would take that much, at this point. It's been very frustrating to see and experience, especially because I used to be a DRK main and it used to be my favorite class. It is a lie to say all tank classes receive equal amounts of attention and resources. DRK remains an afterthought, which is perplexing given that many argue it has the best story. The only reason to play it now would be the story, and to not continue beyond that.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

As a non tank main I find that the irony is while DRK definitely suffers from all the things you mention, it still remains the only tank that's remotely fun and rewarding to play defensively, notably in dungeons as it still favors skill expression there.

I'm in the camp that the other tanks have too much self healing/sustain and should be more reliant on the healers - differing opinions, I know. But since they've taken things this direction already, might as well add better self sustain to DRK.
It would be nice if TBN break gave an option between a free AD, CS, and edge/flood of shadow. I like the way TBN works, which I know is a contentious topic, but it needs a little extra for it to be balanced.

But AD is useless as is and has been for a long time. If it was even half as effective as blood whetting I'd be happy. Just reading through the bloodwhetting description blows my mind - a barrier, a ridiculous heal, and a damage mit. HOC for GNB is similar with a 900 potency cure! AD has a single 200 potency ever 60 seconds .. .. .. .. It's bad

A regen when standing in salted earth is a good one Xeno called out in his video from another comment. <-- That is an absolute no brainer imo.

Someone mention a spread shield to pair with dark missionary, similar to sch adlo + deployment tactics, which sounds really nice.

but ya.. some acknowledgement from SE would be nice. No matter what they do, lots of people will hate it. I'd understand it if it had the best damage with the worst sustain, but they gave that to GNB and it still has amazing MITS. Astro needs an apology if this was intentional - I hear it was amazing before my time.

I'm now of the belief that anything good with the game in earlier years was just an accident and never understood internally to actually be good things, given the game's ongoing descent into a mess.

Obviously Plunge should never have been taken away and must be restored. The linking of Carve and Spit with Abyssal Drain is always a thorn in the side of the job, but as we've seen since Endwalker, skills can (and are more likely now) to be made worse for any job.

I do like DRK's 'glass cannon' style identity (at least that's how I see it), low sustain but lots of AoEs that you can use and weave a bit, or use the single target attacks in same fashion. But another sustain/mitigation couldn't hurt. I don't pay much attention to overall damage output/dps comparisons but if it needs an upping of that too, then fine.

I do like the change to Living Shadow, keep it's function like this. I hope to see the ability to glamour the shadow to be a simulacra of our own character+outfit and not Fray though.

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Originally Posted by Valence

As a non tank main I find that the irony is while DRK definitely suffers from all the things you mention, it still remains the only tank that's remotely fun and rewarding to play defensively, notably in dungeons as it still favors skill expression there.

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I mean, you're right: playing defensively and that particular niche of skill expression as DRK can feel really satisfying, sometimes. YMMV since it's a subjective thing, but in my experience landing a well-timed TBN to save a healer and preventing a wipe does feel fun and rewarding. Tossing TBN and both Oblations to reduce the damage does feel rewarding.

However, when in comparison to other tanks, it feels less rewarding the more you're comfortable and experienced with playing the other tanks. Especially when it comes to Paladin, and Warrior. Again, this is subjective, but IMO/IME Paladin's skill ceiling is higher when it comes to defensive skill expression.

Paladin's Intervention, Cover, Divine Veil, Clemency, and Passage of Arms, allows a player to do all of that, but save more people. Clemency can do what TBN does, but better and has more universal applications when things are going downhill. Cover guarantees the person will survive, whereas TBN is only a maybe. Passage significantly reduces the damage taken across the board for everyone standing in it. Intervention does the same as Oblation, but can be buffed and the recast timer is faster, and gives a regen. Divine Veil does the same mit as Oblation, but for the entire party, provides a regen, and gives a shield. Recast timer is only 30s longer than Oblation.

Warrior's defensive skill expression is often undermined bc the community treats it as mindless, but that's often not the case. Generally, a fully buffed Shake-it-Off can save more people and put about equal shielding comparatively as a single TBN. Cooldown is only 30s longer than Oblation, and provides healing as well as regen. Nascent Flash's cooldown is only 10s longer than TBN, does the exact same amount of mitigation as Oblation, and also comes with a regen based on WAR's damage.

If anything, the only class DRK has beat is Gunbreaker. GNB's Heart of Corundum is a shorter cooldown than Oblation and naturally does more mit on its own, w/o being buffed by the rotation. Aurora's regen can assist in getting people's health up but overall GNB doesn't particularly feel great when it comes to saving or keeping people alive.

All that said, if the devs wanted to lean harder into DRK being a more defensive shielding class for the party, that would be an interesting niche that they could potentially explore. If anything, DRK skill expression when it comes to playing defensively is largely under utilized... and I would argue is not a design philosophy for the class, but was something accidentally implemented. And... comparatively, once again does not feel as good as it could and should be. Obviously we might disagree, but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from with that.

I mained DRK since SB and quit in the Tower of Babil. I was getting my teeth smashed in even though I all my gear was 530. Back then my healers were fine and I realized my abilities just weren't able to keep up with the incoming damage and how awful oblation is. I switched over to my GNB in exactly the same gear and had no issues. I agree with the points already mentioned but my biggest complaint about DRK has always been their MIT. Why can't oblation just operate like HOC and why can't dark mind be more useful. Their filler combo is boring as hell and I got so tired of it by the tike I hit 85 I never looked back. Unfortunately it sounds like it's even worse now.

For me, how a job "feels" to play is a separate thing from how powerful the job is compared to others in its role. A lot of your stated issues with DRK seem to be some variant of "this is bad because it isn't as strong/effective as what other tanks have", which isn't something that I necessarily disagree with, but I also think DRK is fun to play even if it is "weak". I dropped Paladin in favor of Dark Knight because I found Dark Knight's gameplay more fun, and while I play Gunbreaker and Warrior on alts, I find them significantly less enjoyable than Dark Knight. DRK's gameplay just appeals to a different type of player than the other tanks, and I'd say this is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by tank2fish

Delirium only giving 3 stacks instead of 5, and yet somehow the devs did not seem to realize that this was a nerf to damage as well as MP regen is one of the examples that point to this. Another example: TBN continues to be overly punishing when other tanks in Dawntrail comparatively have just as good if not better skills to throw on others. Another: From Endwalker, the change to Abyssal Drain to have it share a cooldown with Carve and Spit is a change that does not make sense, and does not feel good if you actually play the class in real content.

Another: Enhanced Unmend. Anyone who plays DRK for any length of time in the actual game would understand that this is a waste of a trait and does not legitimately benefit the play and feel of the class in any significant way.

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I agree with what you said here about Enhanced Unmend, Delirium, and Abyssal Drain/Carve and Spit. Though, I'm actually glad that TBN is "punishing"; using it at the right time feels good because there's a cost and a wrong time to use it. Without this, it would become just another button that you press because it's there.

As long as DRK doesn't lose the interesting features it has now---such as MP use/management, it's tendency towards OGCDs over GCDs, and TBN---I'm not completely against changes to the job, especially if those changes reinforce a unique identity for DRK instead of making its gameplay more like that of other tanks. It would be nice to see some older concepts (and animations) return, too.

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Originally Posted by tank2fish

All that said, if the devs wanted to lean harder into DRK being a more defensive shielding class for the party, that would be an interesting niche that they could potentially explore.

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Being able to shield party members with TBN is one of my favorite things about the job currently, so I would support this.

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Originally Posted by tank2fish

I mean, you're right: playing defensively and that particular niche of skill expression as DRK can feel really satisfying, sometimes. YMMV since it's a subjective thing, but in my experience landing a well-timed TBN to save a healer and preventing a wipe does feel fun and rewarding. Tossing TBN and both Oblations to reduce the damage does feel rewarding.

However, when in comparison to other tanks, it feels less rewarding the more you're comfortable and experienced with playing the other tanks. Especially when it comes to Paladin, and Warrior. Again, this is subjective, but IMO/IME Paladin's skill ceiling is higher when it comes to defensive skill expression.

Paladin's Intervention, Cover, Divine Veil, Clemency, and Passage of Arms, allows a player to do all of that, but save more people. Clemency can do what TBN does, but better and has more universal applications when things are going downhill. Cover guarantees the person will survive, whereas TBN is only a maybe. Passage significantly reduces the damage taken across the board for everyone standing in it. Intervention does the same as Oblation, but can be buffed and the recast timer is faster, and gives a regen. Divine Veil does the same mit as Oblation, but for the entire party, provides a regen, and gives a shield. Recast timer is only 30s longer than Oblation.

Warrior's defensive skill expression is often undermined bc the community treats it as mindless, but that's often not the case. Generally, a fully buffed Shake-it-Off can save more people and put about equal shielding comparatively as a single TBN. Cooldown is only 30s longer than Oblation, and provides healing as well as regen. Nascent Flash's cooldown is only 10s longer than TBN, does the exact same amount of mitigation as Oblation, and also comes with a regen based on WAR's damage.

If anything, the only class DRK has beat is Gunbreaker. GNB's Heart of Corundum is a shorter cooldown than Oblation and naturally does more mit on its own, w/o being buffed by the rotation. Aurora's regen can assist in getting people's health up but overall GNB doesn't particularly feel great when it comes to saving or keeping people alive.

All that said, if the devs wanted to lean harder into DRK being a more defensive shielding class for the party, that would be an interesting niche that they could potentially explore. If anything, DRK skill expression when it comes to playing defensively is largely under utilized... and I would argue is not a design philosophy for the class, but was something accidentally implemented. And... comparatively, once again does not feel as good as it could and should be. Obviously we might disagree, but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from with that.

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I guess I was more talking about dungeon play than support tools for the job. Sure PLD has more interesting things to juggle with for that. But all PLD, WAR and even GNB are braindead and overpowered to play in dungeons, and that's where I have some fun with DRK. Perhaps it's sad that it's where the job feels the most unique and rewarding skill play tbh, maybe that's what I was trying to say.

I like to play DRK in raids and in raids only. Everything outside of that is bad. Dungeons are really bad and you are better off playing another tank for dungeons. Casual content in group play where limited healing is available, bad to play.

Im looking for big rework in 8.0

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Originally Posted by Derio

I like to play DRK in raids and in raids only. Everything outside of that is bad. Dungeons are really bad and you are better off playing another tank for dungeons. Casual content in group play where limited healing is available, bad to play.

Im looking for big rework in 8.0

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People in 5.0 were looking foward to a big rework in 6.0, people in 6.0 were looking foward to a big rework in 7.0.
I mean they could rework it for 8.0 and I hope so but it's most likely gonna be a astro rework and a monk rework, going off by ever expansion them getting one lol.

Personally i hope they rework all tanks and healers in 8.0, the current fomular and gameplay for both is outdated.

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Originally Posted by Valence

it still remains the only tank that's remotely fun and rewarding to play defensively, notably in dungeons as it still favors skill expression there.

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I've always jived with DRK's defensive kit more than the others since it came out, especially since TBN's addition. It definitely feels more fun to stack a defensive with TBN and counter while bursting down a crowd, or negating/lowering damage that might kill someone via TBN/Obl, but to me it just kind of feels like being allowed the pleasure of munching on slightly seasoned bread crumbs while the other tanks only get to eat glue.

That said, they've barely expanded on the fun aspect of those things since the rework. I've definitely felt for a long while that DRK's weakness isn't necessarily the defensive kit, it's 100% the offensive playstyle with a few other meh-to-bad spots tacked in. On to my main point I guess.

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Originally Posted by tank2fish

Dark Knight feels bad to play.

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I'm ready to acknowledge that I have an absurdly heavy bias as a HW/StB DRK enjoyer, but my primary issue is the following:

They hollowed out the job's mechanics and barely replaced it with anything.

I commonly see people say elsewhere that the job is fun because it has MP/Gauge management alongside many off-globals, but I genuinely believe that calling it management is a stretch. The higher rate of both MP and gauge gain have been shot in the foot come ShB, and it has only gotten worse since. Sure, dark arts was an illusion of choice, but at least it was a semi-functional illusion. Doing this borderline same-y oGCD burst phase for 3 expansions straight into only souleater with an occasional bloodspiller, sometimes salted earth/S&D just feels... super unengaging.

The result is more or less a job that is not only a shell of what it was, but with random things sprinkled into it that barely have any connection to each other. MP/Gauge is now just a case where you always know what you're going to be doing without the slightest leverage into doing anything else. I'm not even asking for DRK to be what it was before, but for it to be something at all.

This was likely a bit ranty for most, and the job probably simply isn't for me anymore. But I'm definitely of the mind that it was more fun to be consistently doing things with a slight uptick in actions instead of bursting then barely doing anything. I won't say the 2m meta alone destroyed the job for me, but there's been a definite lacking in the attempts to make it anywhere near enjoyable until you burst—then it's all over in just a moment. I'd like to see the dev team do anything with it, even if it ends up still not being for me. At the very least, I could really acknowledge it isn't instead of being shoved a shell with random goodies at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Agner

They hollowed out the job's mechanics and barely replaced it with anything.

I commonly see people say elsewhere that the job is fun because it has MP/Gauge management alongside many off-globals, but I genuinely believe that calling it management is a stretch. The higher rate of both MP and gauge gain have been shot in the foot come ShB, and it has only gotten worse since. Sure, dark arts was an illusion of choice, but at least it was a semi-functional illusion. Doing this borderline same-y oGCD burst phase for 3 expansions straight into only souleater with an occasional bloodspiller, sometimes salted earth/S&D just feels... super unengaging.

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I'm (Edge of Shadows) so (Edge of Shadows) glad (Edge of Shadows) they (Edge of Shadows) removed (Edge of Shadows) Dark Arts (Edge of Shadows) so (Edge of Shadows) DRK doesn't spam the same oGCD

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

I'm (Edge of Shadows) so (Edge of Shadows) glad (Edge of Shadows) they (Edge of Shadows) removed (Edge of Shadows) Dark Arts (Edge of Shadows) so (Edge of Shadows) DRK doesn't spam the same oGCD

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I'm gonna go stare at the dark arts animation gif again and then bash my head against the wall remembering how sge basically has it now.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

I'm (Edge of Shadows) so (Edge of Shadows) glad (Edge of Shadows) they (Edge of Shadows) removed (Edge of Shadows) Dark Arts (Edge of Shadows) so (Edge of Shadows) DRK doesn't spam the same oGCD

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You ran out of MP after 3-4 Edge of Shadows ago, quit being silly :)

This is the worst Dark Knight has ever been. Who decided "Endwalker DRK with less MP" would be an improvement?

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Originally Posted by Emitans

This is the worst Dark Knight has ever been. Who decided "Endwalker DRK with less MP" would be an improvement?

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The same people who thought it was a good idea to strip DRK of any and all identity and playstyle that people liked instead of just reducing the Dark Arts APM

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Originally Posted by Agner

They hollowed out the job's mechanics and barely replaced it with anything.

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Seems to be a recurring theme all across the board isn't it.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

You ran out of MP after 3-4 Edge of Shadows ago, quit being silly :)

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They used Blood Weapon. The old one.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Seems to be a recurring theme all across the board isn't it.

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...Yeah, you got me there. :cool: I haven't been keeping up with other job changes this expansion as much as I used to (granted, we're not deep in), so I also can't tell if it's a case of it feeling bad purely because it's the job I play most or if it really is this bad for everyone else. Buuut that's something I'll just have to look at myself.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

I'm (Edge of Shadows) so (Edge of Shadows) glad (Edge of Shadows) they (Edge of Shadows) removed (Edge of Shadows) Dark Arts (Edge of Shadows) so (Edge of Shadows) DRK doesn't spam the same oGCD

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I've been waiting in earnest for someone to make this joke again someday, thank you. I don't really hate Edge/Flood at its core, but it feels like they really had the opportunity to do something more interesting with it and were like "lol nah."

In any case, I think the current version of DRK is kind of falling apart at the seams. A redo is probably inevitable. I just hope they'll put more time and thought into making it mechanically interesting next time. As it stands now, the offensive kit just feels like an ARR tank with extra off globals.

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Originally Posted by Emitans

This is the worst Dark Knight has ever been.

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You're right about that.. it's the worst it's ever been in the entire Final Fantasy series.

"Just play WAR bro. Why aren't you playing WAR?"

I was actually planning on giving DRK a serious chance when I got to HW this time around but threads like this and others just make me depressed.

Is WAR really the only Tank in a good spot right now?

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

I was actually planning on giving DRK a serious chance when I got to HW this time around but threads like this and others just make me depressed.

Is WAR really the only Tank in a good spot right now?

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Most tanks are in a fine spot in the sense they're playable and function well. If you play casually they will all 100% service you well. You can still run pretty much any of them in EX/savage successfully.

There are just a fair number of people who either miss the DRK playstyle from Heavensward release or Stormblood, or felt like the version that came out in Shadowbringers has only been downgraded. Give it a whirl for yourself if you want to, because it's really not that hard to play when you know how to use your defensives right. I just personally find it very boring right now.

If you are worried about needing to rely on healers a bit more, then the other tanks might be more your speed, WAR especially for self-healing. GNB is better if you want faster play (and best damage, lol). PLD seems pretty sturdily built.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

"Just play WAR bro. Why aren't you playing WAR?"

I was actually planning on giving DRK a serious chance when I got to HW this time around but threads like this and others just make me depressed.

Is WAR really the only Tank in a good spot right now?

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As of 7.05, all tanks are more or less fine numerically and Dawntrail’s been pretty good to Gunbreaker and Warrior while Paladin is still the same. Dark Knight just suffers a lot from weird design and getting homogenized in gameplay but still being left behind defensively, made worse by a Savage tier that’s mainly physical tank busters. It’s certainly playable, but Dawntrail made several weird errors in Dark Knight’s design and since Gunbreaker released, Dark Knight has mechanically struggled to have a niche.

I think its notable that DRK is leading tank aDPS and it still has the playrate that it does.
I think DRK is a harder job than say WAR or PLD, but not by a lot, and certainly not so much that this should be the case.


Pray for a 7.x rework but its far more likely nothing will happen

The heal in salted earth would make a lot of sense and would add a bit more positioning in the kit. It's a fun one in pvp.

DRK feels so skeletal compared to the other tanks. It needs changes to its gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Pray for a 7.x rework but its far more likely nothing will happen

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I'm hoping for some minor tuning for 7.1 before the 8.0 rework, even just putting a cure on CnS and Dark Missionary available at level 70 or below would go a long way. We got some QoL stuff in 6.1 with Blood Weapon charges and LD no longer being a worse Holmgang with a longer cooldown, so there is hope.

There is lot of small changes that could be made before an actual rework:
-Decoupling AD/CnS
-Potency/CD adjusts
-Mana regen/cost adjusts

One day I'll wake up and edge and wave will be gone and it'll all be a bad dream.

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Originally Posted by Valence

As a non tank main I find that the irony is while DRK definitely suffers from all the things you mention, it still remains the only tank that's remotely fun and rewarding to play defensively, notably in dungeons as it still favors skill expression there.

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Imo WAR is more interesting defensively, trying to maximise Vengeance/Damnation procs, compared to getting in 1 extra Edge into Buff windows on DRK.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

"Just play WAR bro. Why aren't you playing WAR?"

I was actually planning on giving DRK a serious chance when I got to HW this time around but threads like this and others just make me depressed.

Is WAR really the only Tank in a good spot right now?

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All tanks look competently built, except DRK. But WAR and GNB look very much significantly more exciting and favoured by the design team, compared to PLD and especially the travesty that is DRK design.

Making abyssal drain replace plunge as the 30s oGCD would be nice, especially on 2 charges.
I really just want TBN to not have a pseudo 120s CD when playing optimally for damage though, it feels awful. Give the mp back

I think TBN can lose it's CD, the MP cost is a fine enough reason not to spam it. I'm still on team turn abyssal drain into a spell again, if you want an aoe for that timer just turn carve and split into power slash and make it a line AoE with drop off like how Shoha is, really having an aoe alternative to the same cd is kinda a waste of space in this game with how button economy exists because of controller players.

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Originally Posted by AlessaImpera

Imo WAR is more interesting defensively, trying to maximise Vengeance/Damnation procs, compared to getting in 1 extra Edge into Buff windows on DRK.

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I don't know, I don't find the idea of pressing a defensive on cd and letting it turn into the glowy button on its own to be especially interesting. As for the counter effect out of it, as long as all mobs are hitting you...

TBN requires MP management, and gets most of its value with a careful manipulation of combined mitigation to make the shield last longer. It's not necessarily the glowy button you get for free when it breaks that's interesting to me.

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Originally Posted by AlucaDragonheart

You're right about that.. it's the worst it's ever been in the entire Final Fantasy series.

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I miss Dark Arts and managing MP so much

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

"Just play WAR bro. Why aren't you playing WAR?"

I was actually planning on giving DRK a serious chance when I got to HW this time around but threads like this and others just make me depressed.

Is WAR really the only Tank in a good spot right now?

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The inverse, really. Warrior is ridiculous, but Paladin and Gunbreaker both have their respective "things" and all three feel meaningfully distinct from each other.

Dark Knight feels like it's trying to ape aspects of all three, and is doing it poorly. Whoever has been in charge of designing it for the last three expansions now must be doing it on purpose, because even sheer incompetence occasionally does right by accident.

The kicker? Sage was allowed to keep Eukrasia, meaning clearly they are not averse to the original Dark Arts functionality existing in the game. Hell, Warrior's Inner Chaos is essentially a more limited application of the same design. This strongly implies Dark Knight is not an accident.

I can only wonder who hurt that designer so badly that they're driven to these ends, and what force has allowed them to continually be inflicted upon the playerbase.

... Unless by "in a good spot" you mean "has competitive DPS output in high-end raiding," but if that's the case you and I are never going to be having the same conversation.

DRK is the strongest tank at lv100 but the weakest in all legacy content by far. It is advertised as this tank with lower cooldown mit that you can use more frequently but then they reduce our mp regen which is a direct nerf to TBN. I would really like to see something like abyssal drain changing into PLD's holy spirit where you get a proc for doing your combo for a free drain, this would kill 3 birds with 1 stone. It would improve our self-sustain, it would help get our mp regen back to around where it was, and it would give the DRK's complaining that the removal of multiple oGCD's something to be happy about. Carve and Spit should also have its cooldown untied from Abyssal Drain with this change. Abyssal Drain is currently a button I never push because why would I play DRK in a dungeon when I can just play WAR. If they refuse to change how TBN works then they need to change something else, improve our hp/mp regen, reduce the mp cost of edge and tbn to 2500 or something.

Salted Earth also feels awful to use, let me have a regen while standing it, and let me get a big heal when using Salt and Darkness.

My thoughts...
Bandaid fixes for now;
• The Blackest Night, trigger dark arts on hit, refund portion of mp if shield popped
• Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain, reduce CD to 30, give 2 charges adjust potency accordingly, C&S increase mp restored, AD remove mp restored & increase hp restored

Further fixes for now;
• Dark Mind, 10% damage reduction, if hit by Mag Atk during, damage reduction changed to 20% and extend duration
• Dark Missionary, 10% damage reduction, if hit by Mag Atk during, adds hp regen

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Originally Posted by Emitans

I miss Dark Arts and managing MP so much

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Heck, I'd go a bit further back and say I miss the way Darkside used to work with the MP drain. It really did make the job feel rather distinct, knowing that there was a slow drain on your MP and you had to manage it. Wasn't hard!... but it had some good flavor.

As a bit of a tangent, I dislike how passive Living Shadow is as a skill. It's a "press and forget" kind of ability... well, I suppose that ain't quite right now that we have Disesteem, but that really just feels like an extra button to press, and little else. I remember losing my shit when I saw Living Shadow pop up in the job skills trailer back in 5.0... but when the hype wore off, well, it really was just a flashy DoT lol.

Dark Knight definitely needs some kind of sustainability then what it has. The job is not fun to play in dungeons at all

Some changes I've thought of and just spit balling

Dark Missionary obviously lvl 70
Changed Blood Weapon completely to something to the likes of Bloodwhetting and rename Blood Weapon base ability a different ability that changes into Delirium. Not saying an exact copy of Bloodwhetting but something that would fit Dark Knight. When i think Dark Knight I think Blood Sword, Lifesteal, etc. from the old retro FF games. The fact we only have Abyssal Drain isn't enough. Unless you count Living dead.
Speaking of Abyssal Drain separate it completely from CaS and make Abyssal Drain possibly 30seconds for more duty viability.

Again just spit balling some ideas out there.