Why VPR has no defensive skill?

Viper is a selfish DPS job that has nothing to offer to the party. But unlike Samurai, VPR doesn\\'t even have a self-defensive skill.
I am curious to know S.E.’s decision behind it.
S.E. could have given VPR a passive movement speed buff like NIN at least, which doesn\\'t break the lore as they both wear the same armor type too.

My guess is that they think Viper doesn't really have a good place to use a defensive skill. Viper is the highest APM job in the game at the moment, with long periods where the entirety of your oGCD weave space is occupied by oGCDS (namely the Reawaken bursts and the Vicewinder followups). If Viper had a defensive skill that could be used on the oGCD, players might use it in the middle of a period like their Reawaken burst and end up clipping their GCDs, leading them to playing suboptimally. And unlike other jobs, Viper can't just move its oGCDs to another place or hold them for later. After Hunter's Coil, you MUST Twinfang and Twinblood, or you're strictly losing a use, so you just can't really defensive there.

It can already be kind of tricky not weave-locking yourself out of Feint or True North at times, and oGCDs on Viper already require more careful planning than other weaponskill based jobs because of these inflexible weaves. Perhaps they thought one more oGCD would break the bank and cause Viper players to play poorly? We already know from the 7.05 changes that they think Viper is the hardest job in the world and needs to be simplified more and more each patch, so it doesn't surprise me they wouldn't trust the playerbase with some kind of defensive. I don't necessarily agree with that, but we've seen how they've been designing the class lately. . .

My guess is that since VPR can strike from afar without losing damages, it's compensated by a lack of personal defensive.
Which is pointless since you can simply have a heal/tank throwing single target mitigation on them to compensate.

I would argue that Uncoiled Fury could technically count as a pseudo defensive, as you can safely disengage while keeping your GCD rolling at no cost of personal DPS. So its more of a job that evades damage rather than tank it outright.

More likely situations that urge melees to press their self-defensives are when unavoidable damage seem like they're going to kill them because their HP seems low. Avoidable attacks that force you to disengage(and probably give Damage Downs in Savage) seem like the less likely scenario to use them unless you realize you're going to be too late in dodging it.

Because Bloodbath is straight up absolutly busted compared to other Melees, Viper hits fast and hard, everything is physical press RA and bloodbath, watch your hp and dont forget you got the most broken range melee skill in the game guess its some kind of tradeoff

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Originally Posted by lilmoon

Viper is a selfish DPS job that has nothing to offer to the party. But unlike Samurai, VPR doesn\\'t even have a self-defensive skill.
I am curious to know S.E.’s decision behind it.
S.E. could have given VPR a passive movement speed buff like NIN at least, which doesn\\'t break the lore as they both wear the same armor type too.

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Viper does have 3 slither charges which is really good for avoiding mechanics I guess? Also as it shares the SAM DnA is also has vastly superior mobility.

FFXIV players : Please stop with all this homogenization!

Also FFXIV players : WTF why don't I have this minor inconsequential skill that everyone else has????

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

FFXIV players : Please stop with all this homogenization!

Also FFXIV players : WTF why don't I have this minor inconsequential skill that everyone else has????

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Jobs can have skills with similar purpose but with different uses to reflect their identity without homogenizing the jobs.

Reaper's Arcane crest is 30 seconds and has a hot on the whole team, good and flexible mobility.
Dragoon has a lot of instant mobility, higher armor and self healing (thought very weak and not flexible...)
Ninja has a personal shield, very strong but long cooldown, also able to strike from far away thanks to Ninjutsu.
Samurai has a short self protection that ends up in a DPS gain.
Monk has a very powerful but long cooldown riddle of earth that can also heal allies.

I don't think it would be bad if Viper would have a cooldown that increases their HP for 20 seconds or something similar.

Who cares even a little if job identity is 'reflected' if the system is identical.

That's like saying Inner Release and Delirium are sufficiently differentiated.

I swear to god, FFXIV players are the worst.

Nah.

Inner release and Delirium are way too close to each other, that's true.

But Melees personal are like Haima and Exaltation. They both protect a target but are widely different on the effect and cooldown.

Viper has no defensive because of... dragoon

Everyone seems to have forgotten that drg has never had a true defensive skill - it has an evade, something that's actively detrimental in the situations you'd use a defensive for (towers, stacks, and raid-wides)

Because drg exists, and doesn't have a defensive, all forms of unavoidable damage have to be balanced around it. You can't have a mechanic that requires a dps defensive(beyond feint), or that mechanic is un-resolvable with a drg in party

Since they were already forced to make content balanced around drg not having a defensive, there was no mechanical reason viper needed one. So it becomes a pure flavor choice... and having this one-off button actually goes against the "flow state rhythm of fighting" that viper seems to be designed for.

Last expansion, when RPR was released with Arcane Crest, players argued that a job that provides defensive utility should offer less damage. Unsurprisingly, this time the devs released an offense-focused job without any raid utility. Even if you include role actions, VPR is at the bottom of the list when it comes to healing/shielding output. I think this is personally reasonable decision. The job exists for one thing and one thing alone, doing damage.

I would personally have liked it if the job had a slightly stronger movement toolkit, either in the form of an additional gap extender, or a targetless fixed-distance dash, and I would prioritize that over a defensive tool any day. But if they didn't touch the job at all for the remainder of the expansion I would be content.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Dragoon has a lot of instant mobility, higher armor and self healing (thought very weak and not flexible...)

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DRG doesn't have anything unique when it comes to mobility and defenses besides, perhaps, Elusive Jump that RPR also has access to.

Other jobs have gap closers with charges and the theoretical increased defense of DRG is not inherent to the job but the maiming gear, which RPR also gets.

Who cares

If the boss dies fast, there’s no need for mitigation :cool:

I won't lie, this is a legit concern thats strange to not have since every other dps has something but exactly viper

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

I won't lie, this is a legit concern thats strange to not have since every other dps has something but exactly viper

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DRG doesn't have anything either.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Because Bloodbath is straight up absolutly busted compared to other Melees, Viper hits fast and hard, everything is physical press RA and bloodbath, watch your hp and dont forget you got the most broken range melee skill in the game guess its some kind of tradeoff

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A second charge of Bloodbath would be fun. lol

I've actually been living my best life with bloodbath over here. Wasn't sure how it would be without any defensive at all but it doesn't bother me even a little bit.

It's probably due to viper being like top DPS, trade-offs and all that. Personally all I want is for their dash to just go forward but that might be a bit too OP in their eyes

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Originally Posted by Kalocin

It's probably due to viper being like top DPS, trade-offs and all that. Personally all I want is for their dash to just go forward but that might be a bit too OP in their eyes

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I'm guessing you mean like PCT, the job with a fixed distance dash with a 5 second sprint attached, on a 20 second recast.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

FFXIV players : Please stop with all this homogenization!

Also FFXIV players : WTF why don't I have this minor inconsequential skill that everyone else has????

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Honestly, as someone who doesn't trust healers to always be paying attention, and for good reason, I can see why someone would want an extra defensive, even though VPR does have bloodbath.

Nothing sucks more than knowing you're going to die to a mechanic but having absolutely nothing you can do to stop it, and the only person who *can* stop it is too busy watching the season finale of the show they've been binging on Netflix instead of actually paying attention and noticing that the tank is dead and the DPS are currently getting mauled.

While I don't like homogenization and think they've really eliminated a lot of what makes jobs unique, having some form of self-sustain that isn't as strong as a healer healing you but is strong enough to give you *some* leeway to survive a mechanic is actually pretty nice.

the only thing that sucks about bloodbath is there needs to be something to hit for it to be effective but in a situation where raid wides are happening there's usually something targetable and unlike with the other melee bloodbath on Viper is kind of insane because all the oGCDs they have apply the healing effect which means depending on the point in the rotation can be a lot of healing at once.

I don’t think VPR needs a defensive. It’s cool to want one though.

If I die and I’ve done everything I can to survive… it’s the healer’s problem. Not mine.