Riot Blade > Rage of Halone Needs Work - Some Ideas

Riot Blade > Rage of Halone Needs Work - Some Ideas


Hello. First of all I am fairly new to FF14, however have played many other MMOs in the past. I typically main tank classes in games so naturally I decided to go with Gladiator/Paladin as my main in this game. I wanted to share my thoughts on the particular combo Riot Blade > Rage of Halone as I believe it can be reworked from being a highly situational combo to a bread and butter combo of both classes. I know some of these concerns have been brought up before but I'd like to bring focus to this particular combo.

First to outline the issues I see with this combo:

• Combo requires positioning that a tank class should never find themselves in. The combo could be useful in the rare case that you have 2000 TP stored and the enemy turns it's back to you, however you will find that this conditions will almost never be fulfilled in actual party play. The other way is to force yourself to the back of the enemy, however this is almost always highly undesirable as you will be flipping the enemy after the combo which can cause positioning issues for the other DDs in the party.
• Risk of use is too high. We already have a very limited TP pool to work with. Add to the fact that actually landing weaponskills is a gamble in itself. In a party where you are expected to maximize enmity, your TP resource is almost always better used elsewhere such as Fastblade > Flatblade. Wasting 2000 TP on a miss can be disastrous and considering that in the grand scheme of things the actual damage of this combo and the low damage enmity it actually generates simply does not make it worth it. And we haven't even mentioned the additional positioning requirements to use it yet.
• Potential damage of the class suffers overall because this combo is never used. Applying the two above outlined issues there is a major dependency of the classes potential damage output on paper versus reality. The class and job already sacrifice a lot of damage for little return and it's reflected in the general view of the class. The ineffectiveness of this combo just greatly compounds general issues present with the class and job.

In general Gladiator and Paladin suffer from the same common issue found in many other MMOs when there are two competing tank classes: Slow and Steady never wins the race. Ideally a party with a Paladin versus a Warrior as a tank should see nearly equal single target DPS output or Paladins will be doomed to play second string which is far too common in games with both a defensive tank versus offensive tank. I think this can largely be accomplished with this combo alone with the following changes:

• Remove the positioning requirement Riot Blade or change it to front facing requirements. This is the number one must to make the combo viable rather than a highly situational option. The will give us far more opportunities to actually use the combo.
• Reduce TP requirements of Riot Blade to 1500. This will help lower the risk of using the combo in the event of a failure. Again the goal is to make the combo something worthwhile to use.
• Change the debuff mechanics of Riot Blade. This is an important change along with the rest. The idea is to make the physical defense debuff stack with all other debuffs, make the duration reasonable and change of the debuff landing very high. What this does is give Gladiator/Paladin a group utility that effectively increases the DPS of all other melee in the party. The overall group DPS increase will help close the damage gap a paladin brings to a party versus a warrior.
• Add a magic evasion debuff to Rage of Halone. Similar concept to above but effectively increases the magic DPS of a party when a Gladiator/Paladin is present in the party. Again this would be a unique, stacking debuff.
• Increase TP cost of Rage of Halone to 2000TP (?). May not be necessary but just some thoughts on considering overall balance. Since we're adding an additional, potentially useful effect to Rage of Halone that wouldn't require it be in a combo it's cost may need to be increased to compensate. It would also fill that 2000TP weapon skill gap.

Let me know your thoughts. I understand there are many other areas of possible improvement for GLD/PLD but please try to keep the discussion restricted to these two particular skills. Though understandably there may be impacts in other areas I haven't considered that may need to be brought up.

With a decent DRG on a CC Speed run, for example, you will find the mob has it's back (or at least side) towards you occasionally. The combo is usefull as is.

The positioning aspect can be overcome through gameplay sometimes. It's the same problem with trying to land Goring Blade's debuff, although slightly easier. In either case, you wait for the enemy to charge a WS or, with good timing, wait for the mob to do a normal attack, immediately run through and activate it as you pass through their middle. Naturally this is tough and doesn't always work. It is possible to do this without permanently or temporarily flipping the mob by immediately running back through as your WS activates, but avoiding the latter is rare in my experience.

Another option for Riot Blade is to save up 2250 TP and start with Shield Bash.

I like the positional requirement, but we already get that dynamic from Goring Blade, so maybe I wouldn't miss it. Overall I do like your changes and don't see any major balance problems.

how i see pld all its ws combos need to be activated from the front point simple. pld is not a dd so their is really no need to be behind or the the sides of a mob, since most likey we are tanking a mob the last thing we wanna do is change the mob positioning and cause an actual dd to miss their combos.

i can agree with few of u guys about the additional effects are done with being on the sides or back of mob. also i would really like to see shield bash along with wardrum included in the combos mainly due to the fact they have little relavent/practical use this will give players a reason to use them more for enimty+ and some dmg.
example phanlax-wardrum-circle slash
example fast blade- flat blade- shield bash

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stanleyyoung

also i would really like to see shield bash along with wardrum included in the combos mainly due to the fact they have little relavent/practical use

---

War Drum is pretty okay for AOE hate. Shield Bash has no practical use? It's an amazing on-demand stun that you'll almost always have available due to its low TP cost and the fact that it's not used in a combo. Pretty much every boss out there (except Ifrit and Garuda) is susceptible to stun as well.

Compare it to the other stuns in this game:
Pounce - used as a combo opener
Steel Cyclone - standard combo ender
The dragoon stuns - both used in combos
Thundara - If your BLM uses the Thundara stun they lose their best damage spell for like a million years
Rain of Death - comboooo

Shield Bash is the only one you can just let sit there and use specifically as a stun to interrupt an enemy.

As far as Riot Blade goes, I don't really have a problem with the rear requirement (though it's not ideal), but you're right in that the TP cost is pretty prohibitive. I can usually find a few good opportunities in the fight to sneak in a rear attack, but 2000 TP is too much. Halone's damage is also a bit low when you consider the duration of animation lock and other combo requirements.

My apologies in advanced, but I don't think your suggestions are in the better interest for the game. While Paladin is a bit difficult to use, it is the best tanking choice to use for most of the end game content.

If you don't mind listening a bit to my points, heres my response to your first list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ladon

Riot Blade > Rage of Halone Needs Work - Some Ideas

First to outline the issues I see with this combo:

• Combo requires positioning
• Risk of use is too high.
• Potential damage of the class suffers overall because this combo is never used.

---

Combo requires positioning = Skill and propper timing. My best advice is to time your movement based on when the enemy attacks you. I can guarantee a better success chance.

Risk too high = We don' t want to dumb down the game, each class/job in this game should require some risk when properly doing the job. We don't want WoW/Rift/Aion tactics where it doesn't matter if you mess up.

Potential Damage of class suffers overall because this combo is never used = False statement, your level 45... Please level to 50 (in fact get your conjurer and warrior up too) and come back after you have done some decent end game content.

End game Uses for Riot blade:

Ifrit: After Hellfire, Ifrit's rear is faced at you.... open up with this combo, then go back to your tank spot!

Moogle: Use on every mog (when possible) during 1st phase to boost damage on mogs. 2nd phase use on King mog when everyone is focusing on kiling it.

I've also used it properly in skirmish, garuda, and many other end game activites. I would say your post is a bit premature to complain about something you have little knowlege about. I am for a game that requires skill to play your class... not dumbed down easy mode crap.

Hopefully I wasn't too harsh, but it's because this is a touchy subject to me. I have supported Gladiator/Paladin since launch, and it is the job that I perform best at.
/endrant

Just, no.

The Combo itself works just fine, and if you're not using it because you're scared, then you need to practice more.

Take Ifrit for example. When he hunches over to cast eruptions under someone, or when he activates plumes, this is the perfect chance to run behind him and nail him with Riot Blade. Even then, you can get behind him and whack him with it regardless of what move he's doing, as long as it isn't the knockback.

This is also EXCEEDINGLY easy on Miser's Mistress considering she's very easy to stun and she only turns to WS/Breath.

We already have frontal activating combos and one that doesn't even require technical positioning. A rear combo WS isn't unreasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Just, no.

The Combo itself works just fine, and if you're not using it because you're scared, then you need to practice more.

Take Ifrit for example. When he hunches over to cast eruptions under someone, or when he activates plumes, this is the perfect chance to run behind him and nail him with Riot Blade. Even then, you can get behind him and whack him with it regardless of what move he's doing, as long as it isn't the knockback.

This is also EXCEEDINGLY easy on Miser's Mistress considering she's very easy to stun and she only turns to WS/Breath.

We already have frontal activating combos and one that doesn't even require technical positioning. A rear combo WS isn't unreasonable.

---

Truth

/10char

There is no clipping the current version, lock-off and run through the mob as you use riot which will trigger the combo and then back to your spot and use halone.

I do want it to be a frontal combo though.

While I know where the OP is coming from and agree with the notion of PLD needing changes, I don't think that Riot Blade was meant to be bread and butter in a DPS rotation. The cooldowns are too restrictive. We might be able to change that if PLD/GLA had a proc that reset Riot Blade's cooldown on proc.

Quote:

---

In general Gladiator and Paladin suffer from the same common issue found in many other MMOs when there are two competing tank classes: Slow and Steady never wins the race. Ideally a party with a Paladin versus a Warrior as a tank should see nearly equal single target DPS output or Paladins will be doomed to play second string which is far too common in games with both a defensive tank versus offensive tank.

---

This part I definitely agree with. Offensive tank vs defensive tank never pans out well because of the way players react to them. WAR and PLD could be make different mechanically while still having both aim for the same results survivability and DPS-wise. I can't see any other approach to tank design succeed in making all tank classes equally useful and desirable.

Quote:

---

Halone as I believe it can be reworked from being a highly situational combo to a bread and butter combo of both classes. I know some of these concerns have been brought up before but I'd like to bring focus to this particular combo.

---

You pretty much answered your own question.
This combo is pretty situational, and thus...working as intended.
The defense down debuff is pretty powerful, does decent damage, and when combo'd is crazy.

I wouldn't mind the cooldown being lowered a bit, but the mechanics of it are fine.

Flat Blade and Spirits are the bread and butter. Easymode Rage would be way too much icing on the cake.

Quote:

---

While I know where the OP is coming from and agree with the notion of PLD needing changes, I don't think that Riot Blade was meant to be bread and butter in a DPS rotation. The cooldowns are too restrictive.

---

The only changes I know of that PLD may need, but at the same time would make it way OP is the ability to Tank Multiple Mobs, as well as War.

What it does good right now:
1) Can block 50%+ of physical attacks on Bosses
2) Damage reduction with Sentinel
3) Highest single target Enmity Generation
4) Medium Damge to High Damage potential
5) Self Heals/Party Buffs/Cover
6) Enemy Debuffs (Goring Blade, Defense Down. Aero, Stone)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

The only changes I know of that PLD may need, but at the same time would make it way OP is the ability to Tank Multiple Mobs, as well as War.

What it does good right now:
1) Can block 50%+ of physical attacks on Bosses
2) Damage reduction with Sentinel

---

Damage mitigation is fine, I agree.

Quote:

---

3) Highest single target Enmity Generation

---

While nice, means little in a world there there are groups of mobs involved. Lack of AoE damage makes it look very subpar, especially when placed next to a tank that can hold single target aggro AND do AoE damage in encounters that matter. The attempted dichotomy of "WAR tanks groups, PLD tanks bosses" is idiotic and should go away ASAP.

Quote:

---

4) Medium Damage to High Damage potential

---

This is false. PLD can very easily get out-DPSed by pretty much everyone else, including WAR.

Quote:

---

5) Self Heals/Party Buffs/Cover

---

Cover's design is pretty flawed. Only buff would be Protect, which is not native to the job.

Quote:

---

6) Enemy Debuffs (Goring Blade, Defense Down. Aero, Stone)

---

No PLD that I know of has Aero and Stone on their action bars. Not when you're pretty much using Provoke, Raise, Bloodbath, Protect and Stoneskin. I can't place large value on debuffs that don't have a 100% land rate, either.

As I said, the OP makes a good point in saying PLD plays second fiddle to WAR. I'd rather both be interchangable, and to meet that end PLD needs changes.

Quote:

---

While nice, means little in a world there there are groups of mobs involved. Lack of AoE damage makes it look very subpar, especially when placed next to a tank that can hold single target aggro AND do AoE damage in encounters that matter. The attempted dichotomy of "WAR tanks groups, PLD tanks bosses" is idiotic and should go away ASAP.

---

Who know's what 2.0 will bring, but in a world where the only fight that "matters" where there are multiple mobs is Princess. I'd think the strongest single target hate generator would be ideal.

Quote:

---

This is false. PLD can very easily get out-DPSed by pretty much everyone else, including WAR

---

I honestly haven't parsed against a DPS geared Warrior to compare numbers. I mentioned "potential" because you need to be geared properly as a DPS tank. Warriors base stats are STR and VIT, which makes the average WAR build, naturally geared towards damage output, so I can understand why you would think PLD can be so easliy out-DPS'd

Quote:

---

Cover's design is pretty flawed. Only buff would be Protect, which is not native to the job.

---

I agree, cover is a bit of a pain, and only works well on close quarter DD's. Buffs include, Rampart, Stoneskin(can AOE this), Protect, Divine Veil + Heal, gives party members within range a Regen effect.

Quote:

---

No PLD that I know of has Aero and Stone on their action bars. Not when you're pretty much using Provoke, Raise, Bloodbath, Protect and Stoneskin. I can't place large value on debuffs that don't have a 100% land rate, either

---

Maybe this is where your view on how poor PLD is comes from? At the very least, why not use Aero to put a DOT effect on the boss. Aero > Protect 95% of the time.

It used to be that my LS wanted me to tank on WAR and WAR alone.

Now they want me to tank on PLD and only want my WAR for tanking trash.(And to be honest, I don't even do that, I'm just initial aggro until the BLMs come in). If PLD was playing second fiddle to WAR, why am I on PLD more often than WAR?

Hell, as much as I hate to pull this card to validate my arguments, why is Blue Gartr using PLD as their tank instead of WAR? If any tank class is playing second fiddle now, its WAR.

I'd go on to say that if you can't tank single target MORE effectively as a PLD than a WAR, you need to stop facerolling cooldowns and learn tanking rotations.

Paladin isn't absolutely TERRIBLE in the AoE hate generation department.

Flash + Party Rampart + War Drum (Should be up if you've flashed and/or Ramparted a group of mobs) and if absolutely necessary. AoE hate is usually necessary for the beginning of a pull or fight, then the Dragoons and Black Mages clean everything up.

It's not as easy to pull off as Steel Cyclone, but it's indeed a decent chunk of emnity on a group of mobs that are just going to die in a few seconds anyway.

Edit - Back on topic!

Riot Blade -> Rage of Halone is a great combo I've found out from Skirmish. It does an absolute load of damage (Even on high defense bosses like the Golem), applies Defense Down, and grants a large chunk of emnity just off the damage alone. For 1500tp, it's not a bad investment at the right time. Also, TP isn't a huge problem if you're capped on Accuracy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkine

There is no clipping the current version, lock-off and run through the mob as you use riot which will trigger the combo and then back to your spot and use halone.

I do want it to be a frontal combo though.

---

You should never be using lock-on while tanking to begin with. Ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoarLegion

It used to be that my LS wanted me to tank on WAR and WAR alone.

Now they want me to tank on PLD and only want my WAR for tanking trash.(And to be honest, I don't even do that, I'm just initial aggro until the BLMs come in). If PLD was playing second fiddle to WAR, why am I on PLD more often than WAR?

Hell, as much as I hate to pull this card to validate my arguments, why is Blue Gartr using PLD as their tank instead of WAR? If any tank class is playing second fiddle now, its WAR.

I'd go on to say that if you can't tank single target MORE effectively as a PLD than a WAR, you need to stop facerolling cooldowns and learn tanking rotations.

---

Anyone who's telling you PLD is always better than WAR or vice versa, doesn't know what they are talking about. There are instances where WAR is clearly the best option, and there are situations where a WAR simply won't survive as tank.

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in here...

We can't forget Riot blade is the only melee based long ranged WS in the game. (Not that it's useful as I've only ever used it as a ranged attack once.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Curcio

Riot Blade -> Rage of Halone is a great combo I've found out from Skirmish. It does an absolute load of damage (Even on high defense bosses like the Golem), applies Defense Down, and grants a large chunk of emnity just off the damage alone. For 1500tp, it's not a bad investment at the right time. Also, TP isn't a huge problem if you're capped on Accuracy.

---

Riot Blade is 2000 TP (2250 if you use shield bash for the setup)

I love how you have the risk of turning a mob towards the party to make the defense go down.

Or if you don't like using it randomly...

Save 2250 TP
Shield Bash and if enemy is stunned
Riot Blade

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I love how you have the risk of turning a mob towards the party to make the defense go down.

Or if you don't like using it randomly...

Save 2250 TP
Shield Bash and if enemy is stunned
Riot Blade

---

pure genius.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Save 2250 TP
Shield Bash and if enemy is stunned
Riot Blade

---

Considering Shield Bash's stun is not 100% proc, that's not exactly what I'd call a solid strategy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Who know's what 2.0 will bring, but in a world where the only fight that "matters" where there are multiple mobs is Princess. I'd think the strongest single target hate generator would be ideal.

---

I still think interchangeability should be the main goal. It shouldn't really matter if you have a PLD or WAR or SAM or BST, so long as you have someone doing the tanking.

Quote:

---

I honestly haven't parsed against a DPS geared Warrior to compare numbers. I mentioned "potential" because you need to be geared properly as a DPS tank. Warriors base stats are STR and VIT, which makes the average WAR build, naturally geared towards damage output, so I can understand why you would think PLD can be so easliy out-DPS'd

---

There's more to the issue than stats. Usable WS, for one (which in a way relates to the OP).

Quote:

---

I agree, cover is a bit of a pain, and only works well on close quarter DD's. Buffs include, Rampart.

---

Cover should really be turned into a toggle and left at that. The AF chestpiece bonus could then be changed to something else.

As for Rampart, its design has always bothered me because it's trying to serve two purposes that kinda don't work in tandem with each other. Party mitigation and enmity-gain-as-part-or-a-rotation. Don't know where I'd take it because if you turn it into a real party mitigation ability (20-25% damage reduction on everyone in the party), you give the devs an excuse to add massive damage abilities during boss fights because they're balancing things around the chance of a PLD being present. If you make it an aggro gain ability, then you get another button to press for the sake of having another button to press (one where PLD would be better-served with another attack or WS). If you turn it into a snap AoE aggro Taunt ability with a slight buff to defense, you end up making it really situational.

I'm seeing lots of how to use the combo, haven't really seen as to why. I'm not really following why anyone would spend 2000TP on the current combo considering the alternatives.

First there is Phalanx which seems like it should be the go to whenever it is up because it's damage to TP cost is incredibly efficient and it has a fast cooldown. Of course it requires a block to trigger so not always reliable but with a good string of blocks it can output a great DPS rate plus it's the opener for our best WS when it's up. It's so efficient though that even if you spam it you can still usually get to 1000 TP pretty quickly. 2000 of course takes even more time.

This brings me to my next point. Let's look at the combo for Riot Blade > Rage. The numbers are actually pretty terrible if you break it down. First to execute it on an enemy with a larger hit box which most bosses have, it takes about 2 seconds to actually run to the rear of it's hit box, the another 3 seconds in animation lock with Riot Blade. Assuming you are being a good tank you have to then run back, another 2 seconds then it's a 4 second animation lock for Rage. Total of 11 seconds to finish the combo. You can shave off 2 second if you don't care about positioning at the time so 9 seconds at best. All of this costs 2000 TP of course.

Now lets look at the other option of how to spend 2000 TP. Fast Blade > Savage Blade then Fast Blade > Flat Blade. Each has about 1 second of animation lock. so Fast Blade > Savage Blade, 2 seconds, 9 second cooldown (Fast Blade cooldown is already active when you are in Savage Blade animation lock) Fast Blade > Flat Blade 2 seconds. Total of 13 second execution time. Also these 4 WS will do about as much damage as Riot Blade > Rage will for 2 seconds more of execution time. You can also throw in Goring Blade for free as it's animation lock time it carried out during Fast Blade cooldown making the entire option superior in damage even if you don't apply the bleed component.

-So comparing the two options, TP to damage efficiency is about the same.
-Fast Blade option generates more enmity with Flat Blade in the mix.
-Riot Blade > Rage has a 1:33 cooldown where you can go right back into Fast Blade > Flat Blade after 10 seconds if you have TP. This means that for DPS races Fast Blade > Flat Blade simply destroys Riot Blade > Rage even if Flat Blade damage sucks because of it's short cooldown that matches Fast Blade. It's not even worth putting Riot Blade > Rage in because it costs twice as much TP and basically have the needed TP in half the time.

-Missing in Riot Blade > Rage can result in no damage and a loss of 2000TP or a ~50% reduction in damage then you have a very long cool down. Missing the Fast Blade combos means a ~58% (averaging missing Savage combo versus Flat) loss in damage and 1000TP and a 10 second cooldown or a ~35% (averaging missing Savage versus Flat) reduction in total damage if something else misses.

Also one thing to note that Rage damage suffers greatly on high physical resistant enemies due to it being a 5 fold attack and damage reduction being applied 5 times rather than once. This is a common RPG artifact.


So I'm trying to figure out why we'd ever use it in it's current state. Only two things I came up with were:

-For the physical damage debuff. How good is this? Has anyone tested it's effectiveness? It doesn't seem to land often on high dLVL enemies. I also suspect dLVL is going to have the same kind of effect on this debuff that it has on damage mitigation from defense. That is it's next to useless.

-For spike enmity. Seems like a really poor choice though as you have plenty of better tools for this and you aren't doing a very good job if you are sitting on 2000 TP just waiting for this kind of opportunity.


So my suggestions really have nothing to do with being able to pull of the combo better or not understanding how to use it. The current numbers simply do not add up. My suggested changes help make it a better option rather than make it 'easymode' or similar silly suggestion. What the changes help is:

1) Give it a superior cost to damage ratio of other options making it worth saving the TP for and putting into DPS chains when the skills are ready. That's in the TP reduction.
2) Reduce the required execution time by removing the back-hitting requirement. This alone can shave 2-4 seconds on it making it viable to throw into a DPS rotation in between Fast Blade cooldowns. This is the main goal here, not to make the combo any easier.
3) Better debuffs to give it an edge and to also help offer a unique tool for groups. It also helps offset the long cooldown time of the combo again making it a worthwhile option to our other abilities.


Hopefully this helps better explain my thinking as it seems many may have missed a lot of points I'm attempt to make and resolve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

Considering Shield Bash's stun is not 100% proc, that's not exactly what I'd call a solid strategy..

---

Hints why I said AND IF ENEMY IS STUNNED.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ladon

I'm seeing lots of how to use the combo, haven't really seen as to why..

---

WHY? It gives an AWESOME debuff that sticks on endgame mobs like Ifrit, Chimera, Moogles, etc. And it is pretty strong. Maybe people would realize this if they didn't stack BLM BLM BLM all the time for everything. Also, it ups your accuracy on Rage of Halone by so much. Try doing Rage of Halone on a higher level mob now. The accuracy is so sh*tty it's pathetic. PLD isn't all about pushing out as much damage as you can but about keeping hate with skill rotations and if Riot Blade isn't in your skill rotation... All I can say is wow.

Not saying you don't have your points Ladon, cost to damage ratio does make it the weakest of our heavy hitting weaponskills and is somewhat difficult to use depending on the situation, but it does have it's uses.

Typically I end up saving it for last if all my other WS's are on cooldown, or if solo or something I'll save up TP to 3k time the enemies attack or shield bash them, throw out riot blade combo, follow up with Spirits and Goring Blade and if I'm fast enough build up enough tp to use Flat Blade before the defense down wears.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

As for Rampart, its design has always bothered me because it's trying to serve two purposes that kinda don't work in tandem with each other. Party mitigation and enmity-gain-as-part-or-a-rotation. Don't know where I'd take it because if you turn it into a real party mitigation ability (20-25% damage reduction on everyone in the party), you give the devs an excuse to add massive damage abilities during boss fights because they're balancing things around the chance of a PLD being present. If you make it an aggro gain ability, then you get another button to press for the sake of having another button to press (one where PLD would be better-served with another attack or WS). If you turn it into a snap AoE aggro Taunt ability with a slight buff to defense, you end up making it really situational.

---

I'm with you on rampart, the skill is awesome, but so often it's impossible to get the full use of it. Between it's short range and mechanics (party members need to be on the enmity list...) it could use an improvement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ladon

I'm seeing lots of how to use the combo, haven't really seen as to why. I'm not really following why anyone would spend 2000TP on the current combo considering the alternatives.

---

I don't disagree with what you're suggesting, but the damage would have to be lowered if the directional requirement was dropped.

Just being able to use Rage of Halone (with the +accuracy) fairly often would be a huge increase in damage.

Shield Bash's stun isn't 100% but it works extremely often. In a Moogle party once I had a crappy tank/bard and ended up kiting the Warrior moogle around for half the damn fight on my WHM and shield bash never failed to stun. I'd be more worried about it missing than it not stunning.

If it's needed in order to land Goring blade there's no reason not to as the defense down is amazing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estellios

Shield Bash's stun isn't 100% but it works extremely often. In a Moogle party once I had a crappy tank/bard and ended up kiting the Warrior moogle around for half the damn fight on my WHM and shield bash never failed to stun. I'd be more worried about it missing than it not stunning.

If it's needed in order to land Goring blade there's no reason not to as the defense down is amazing.

---

Accuracy bonus armor like the Officer sets the GC has to offer makes it to where you almost never miss with sanction buff. Decently melded gear will also give the same effect.

Two points I'll comment on:

People truly underestimate the Stun on Shield Bash. Sure, it's not 100%, but against things the Darkhold Ogre or Coincounter, you'd be VERY surprised at how often you can stun. And there is nothing more satisfying than stunning Eye of the Beholder or 100 Tonz Swing.

The second point is the way people are underestimating the Defense Down on Riot Blade. The example I present is Miser's Mistress.

When you're DD are going all out, the Defense Down increases their damage potential, as well as gives you a little bit of a hack and slash as well.

To best utilize Riot Blade against Miser's Mistress, use Outmaneuver and Divine Veil against the Banemites in the area just before Mistress's room. Have the rest of your party enter and start activating the glyph. By the time the banemites "Retreat to the void", you'll have build up a reserve of TP to be used against Miser's Mistress. This will let you Phalanx, Spirit's Within, then Riot Blade/Rage of Halone.

Chances are, you're using MNKs, and in more cases than not, one of the shoulder tackles will stun Mistress. This gives you the ideal conditions to run behind her for Riot Blade. This also puts you in a prime location for your Rampart to hit just about everyone. Then you simply run back in front of her and use Rage of Halone, at which point your regular tanking cycle can continue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

People truly underestimate the Stun on Shield Bash. Sure, it's not 100%, but against things the Darkhold Ogre or Coincounter, you'd be VERY surprised at how often you can stun. And there is nothing more satisfying than stunning Eye of the Beholder or 100 Tonz Swing.

---

Definately, I use it regularly on anything that can be stunned. Actually, it's vital for a mess free hamlet when your kiting around the Beastman leader like in Aleport or occasionally Golden Bazaar and Hyristmill, but it lets you throw out the occasional combo to help whittle down it's hp and speed it up a bit in the end process.

The process is a little different for each one of course due to different Beastmen behaviors, and you stand to take a little bit of damage with this strat
Hyristmill / Golden Bazaar - Outmaneuver (if up) > Divine Veil > Phalanx > Aegis Boon (to cap HP for Spirits) > Spirits Within > Shield Bash

Aleport is a little different because you can't indefinitely kite the NM w/o taking damage, in fact you will have to run through him twice to kite him. Thankfully he rarely follows up with a second auto attack and you can minimize damage by doing the following
Ale Port - In Cave: Outmaneuver > Divine Veil > Run through him.
At Cave Entrance: Aegis Boon > Phalanx > Spirits > Shield Bash > Run through him.

At any time your hurting a little on hp just fall back on safe mode and Aegis Boon > Shield Bash and forget Spirits Within till your hp is back up in the safe zone.