Put Noxious Gnash back in.

Noxious gnash was fun and cool. It made Viper more engaging, and removing it has lowered the skill ceiling considerably.

The reason we gave feedback about positionals is because it was the only specific thing mentioned when Viper changes were initially announced. If "we're planning to remove noxious gnash" was part of that announcement, I'm certain it would've received even more negative reactions than removing a couple of positionals, as it's a much more fundamental change to the job. (In fact, I wouldn't have minded losing positionals on the Dreadwinder combo - would've added an additional reason to think about when to use it, etc).

Put noxious gnash back, please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moostelle

It made Viper more engaging, and removing it has lowered the skill ceiling considerably.

---

Claiming Noxious Gnash to be a significantly skillful thing to execute doesn't look as good as you think it might.

There are only two ways that can go:

1) You found maintaining Noxious Gnash to be difficult, and therefore a significant contributor to skill expression for VPR. Which it wasn't. It's just part of what you should be doing anyway.
2) You think others find maintaining Noxious Gnash to be difficult, in which case there is some severe Dunning Kruger effect happening.

Neither of these looks are good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crafoutis

Claiming Noxious Gnash to be a significantly skillful thing to execute doesn't look as good as you think it might.

There are only two ways that can go:

1) You found maintaining Noxious Gnash to be difficult, and therefore a significant contributor to skill expression for VPR. Which it wasn't. It's just part of what you should be doing anyway.
2) You think others find maintaining Noxious Gnash to be difficult, in which case there is some severe Dunning Kruger effect happening.

Neither of these looks are good.

---

Not at all true. Noxious Gash can be skillful in specific situations.

In multi-target situations, such as Valigarmanda's add phase, a skilled Viper can deftly apply Noxious Gash to the target they're fighting, make the most of its duration, and ensure they are at a point in their combo OR have a Dreadwinder combo available to apply Noxious Gash to their next target, be that another add or Valigarmanda itself. Additionally, if the boss was going to phase and disappear, optimizing the duration remaining on Noxious Gash is an important decision, too -- no point to refresh to 40s if he's going to disappear in 16s.

No one is arguing that Noxious Gash was hard at the skill FLOOR. We are upset because Noxious Gash's removal has lowered the skill CEILING.

You seriously lack the perspective required to critique the OP. Think about that before you post.

The skillful part isn't having it applied. That's super easy if you felt like starting every combo with Dread Fangs, but then you'd lose the extra damage from Steel Fangs. The skillful part is the balance between minimizing how many times you apply it/not overcapping it (via timing Dreadwinders appropriately, or as someone else noted, on newly spawned adds), while having a high duration going into burst windows. I had a ton of fun seeing how few Dread Fangs I could get away with using, and squeezing out the extra Steel Fangs uses for small bits of potency that add up over a long fight. Post-change, it's as simple as "press Vicewinder off cooldown, alternate combo starters." No more room to do it better or worse than that.

I'd be surprised if you, an apparent 9 year Warrior main, wouldn't mourn the loss of Surging Tempest in favor of the game just telling you to alternate between your pair of combo finishers. I know much of WAR's appeal is its simplicity, but surely you must find it at least kind of engaging, or rewarding at least, to maximize how much gauge you build by minimizing your number of Storm's Eye uses, no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crafoutis

Claiming Noxious Gnash to be a significantly skillful thing to execute doesn't look as good as you think it might.

There are only two ways that can go:

1) You found maintaining Noxious Gnash to be difficult, and therefore a significant contributor to skill expression for VPR. Which it wasn't. It's just part of what you should be doing anyway.
2) You think others find maintaining Noxious Gnash to be difficult, in which case there is some severe Dunning Kruger effect happening.

Neither of these looks are good.

---

bro what in the reddit "um achktually" ahh post is this?

Noxious Gnash was literally the only part of Viper that required a modicum amount of thinking that created a window for optimization and improvement for a player. The removal of it lowered the skill ceiling to the lowest it could possibly be. Now the opportunity to improve is nonexistent since all you need to do now is to save 50 gauge for burst. The removal of it in exchange for "just press the opposite button each time" is not a suitable substitute and the job absolutely feels like a chunk of identity was taken from it.

Dunning Kruger effect is absolutely hilarious and ironic coming from your post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moostelle

Noxious gnash was fun and cool. It made Viper more engaging, and removing it has lowered the skill ceiling considerably.

The reason we gave feedback about positionals is because it was the only specific thing mentioned when Viper changes were initially announced. If "we're planning to remove noxious gnash" was part of that announcement, I'm certain it would've received even more negative reactions than removing a couple of positionals, as it's a much more fundamental change to the job. (In fact, I wouldn't have minded losing positionals on the Dreadwinder combo - would've added an additional reason to think about when to use it, etc).

Put noxious gnash back, please.

---

I agree, this change was completely unnecessary. Noxious Gnash was the only responsibility that a player had to manage, now it feels like viper plays it's self honestly, it so boring.

These changes feel so rushed, that I bet none of the devs even playtested them. Might as well remove Deaths design and Higanbana next, since debuff management hard or something.

No thnx. Viper is better now than it was before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crafoutis

Claiming Noxious Gnash to be a significantly skillful thing to execute doesn't look as good as you think it might.

There are only two ways that can go:

1) You found maintaining Noxious Gnash to be difficult, and therefore a significant contributor to skill expression for VPR. Which it wasn't. It's just part of what you should be doing anyway.
2) You think others find maintaining Noxious Gnash to be difficult, in which case there is some severe Dunning Kruger effect happening.

Neither of these looks are good.

---

So if it wasn’t this super skillful thing and what you should be doing anyway then why did they take it out? Apparently it adds more than you can fathom otherwise they would’ve left it. take a look around: there’s more likes against these changes than for it. And yeah, what rychu said about your dunning Kruger comment. Go check a mirror bud

If they add it back in then I'd just ask each application gives 1.5x the duration of the debuff compared to before. It felt tedious before, it wasn't hard to re-apply it so often, just tedious.