Why does no one remember Dalamud?

There used to be two moons in the sky. Then one of them hatched and a dragon came out. But the weird thing is, no one outside of Eorzea seems to have ever noticed Dalamud's existence.

Two minor exceptions:

1. There's a Red Chocobo FATE in Bozja where an NPC says "It's the second coming of Dalamud!" Perhaps delving into Cid's backstory reminded the devs it existed?

2. One Xaela tribe, the Dalamiq, is said to worship Dalamud. We never see them in-game. Otherwise, everyone on the Steppe talks a lot about the sun and the singular moon.

How is it the second moon that existed until only five (canonical) years ago has had zero impact on Hingan, Yanxian, Hannish, and Turali culture?

Uh, just because people don't constantly bring it up now doesn't mean they're not aware of it - it's happened, they know it fell, and yes, it affected everyone, but the more important thing is they survived and continue to live, which is more important. The annual Rising event is all about this - celebrating Eorzea (and by extension, Hydaelyn's) survival and rebirth after Dalamud's fall (and meta wise, FFXIV's ressurection after the disaster that was 1.0).

And it's not like Eorzea can ignore it anyway - there are literal pieces of Dalamud scattered all around Eorzea after all (*cough* Binding Coil of Bahamut *cough cough*).

Sure, it doesn't have to be part of every single conversation, but like I said -- there's tons of discussion on, say, the Azim Steppe of Xaela mythology revolving around their sun and moon gods. What role did Dalamud play in that? We have no idea. And, canonically, it's only been five years since it fell. You'd think it would come up, like... ever.

The Rising is specific to Eorzea, noplace else observes it.

Five years ago in real life was 2019. What was the most important world event to you that happened in 2019? For me it was probably the Australian election that year, but that's because I'm both Australian and politically active, the global number one is probably the fire at Notre-Dame.

How much do you, as a real person in real life, talk about the fire at Notre-Dame in 2024?

Five years is actually a long time when it comes to casual conversation topics; chances are, even the Azim Steppe's just sorta talked out on that point. There's more recent and more important things to discuss.

Strange that people are missing the point.
Yes obviously every character knows it crashed 5 years ago, and may not be talking about the crash on a daily basis. But for a major celestial body that has been as present as the larger moon for THOUSANDS of years, yes it really is weird that there aren't more folk tales, cultural traditions, or things named after it that we can see in the world.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Five years ago in real life was 2019. What was the most important world event to you that happened in 2019? For me it was probably the Australian election that year, but that's because I'm both Australian and politically active, the global number one is probably the fire at Notre-Dame.

How much do you, as a real person in real life, talk about the fire at Notre-Dame in 2024?

Five years is actually a long time when it comes to casual conversation topics; chances are, even the Azim Steppe's just sorta talked out on that point. There's more recent and more important things to discuss.

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Covid started in 2019.

Just saying.

And the point isn't just that Dalamud fell five years ago. Like Tahli says, the point is that for thousands of years, until only five years ago, there were two moons.

If the IRL moon suddenly crashed into the Earth one day, I really don't think all evidence of its existence (outside of the one place it crashed into) would disappear from our culture and collective memory.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

Covid started in 2019.

Just saying.

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I did think of bringing up covid, but that's actually a bit of an unhelpful example because that wasn't just one moment, that was the start of a very long-term thing that's still ongoing. In Eorzea, sure, that's true of Dalamud, but off in Othard? Sure, it happened, might've even been a big deal at the time, but today, the fact that the tiny secondary moon isn't there anymore isn't an especially important issue on the day-to-day.

Yeah, they probably have started spinning up some stories! You just didn't ask, and they're not that interested in talking about it right now. They've got a life, and that life probably didn't revolve around Dalamud.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

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A lot of art and culture does revolve around the natural world that they see around them, though. There are obvious ones like Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te. Even aside from that, you would think to see depictions of it just as much as the larger moon still in the sky, no?

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Originally Posted by Tahli

A lot of art and culture does revolve around the natural world that they see around them, though. There are obvious ones like Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te. Even aside from that, you would think to see depictions of it just as much as the larger moon still in the sky, no?

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I would, if they had any art of the moon at all!

That's sort of a thing there; we don't really see a lot of art and culture in-game, just because the game never really has the aim to put much focus on it. Weirdly, the main exception I can think of is actually fairly recent, we saw a lot of the Yok Huy's art comparatively-speaking because it was fairly important to their story. We honestly rarely see any art that isn't, like, statues or portraiture, unless you count fashion and food (which I would if it were deliberately framed as such, but it rarely is).

So yeah, I would expect 'oh yeah that second moon is gone' to be a prominent figure in their art! Art that we don't see.

The simplest explanation is just that it's rarely relevant.

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Originally Posted by Turnintino

The simplest explanation is just that it's rarely relevant.

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Maybe. It'd be a nice bit of immersive world building if they did include it more though. Even just like a random storefront with a sign that has a picture of the moon on it, with a smaller moon next to it.

"Miounne: Even now, the wounds have barely begun to heal. Ah, but I speak of it as if you were there. Forgive me. Five years past, Eorzea was well-nigh laid to waste when a dread wyrm emerged from within the lesser moon, Dalamud, and rained fire upon the realm. It is this which people call “the Calamity.”
Miounne: Scarcely a square malm of the Twelveswood was spared the devastation. Yet despite the forest's extensive wounds, not a soul among us can recall precisely how it all happened.
Miounne: I am well aware of how improbable that must sound to an outsider... It is improbable. But it's also true. For reasons we can ill explain, the facts surrounding the Calamity are shrouded in mystery. There are as many versions of events as there are people willing to recount them.
Miounne: Yet amidst the hazy recollections and conflicting accounts, all agree on one thing: that Eorzea was saved from certain doom by a band of valiant adventurers.
Miounne: Whatever else we've misremembered, none of us have forgotten the heroes who risked life and limb for the sake of the realm. And yet...whenever we try to say their names, the words die upon our lips."

Maybe they just don't remember there ever being two moons?

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Maybe they just don't remember there ever being two moons?

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Astrologians remember. It’s even mentioned that they still take into account where Dalamud would be for their calculations and readings.

Because there's only so much text writers can put in quests and dialogs, and they'd rather use that place for stuff relevant to this expansion rather than content from over 10 years ago.
You probably realize what you see on screen isn't the full extent of our interactions with NPCs we would have this conversation with. But it would be kinda weird to speak to a new NPC and he casually drops "wow btw the moon was super big for a time, crazy huh?".

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Originally Posted by Alenore

Because there's only so much text writers can put in quests and dialogs, and they'd rather use that place for stuff relevant to this expansion rather than content from over 10 years ago.
You probably realize what you see on screen isn't the full extent of our interactions with NPCs we would have this conversation with. But it would be kinda weird to speak to a new NPC and he casually drops "wow btw the moon was super big for a time, crazy huh?".

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Good thing this thread isn't about people not talking about when Dalamud fell. But some people here seem to think Dalamud sprang into existence only to then immediately fall out of the sky.

I'm talking about stuff like how the Xaela have an extensive sun god/moon goddess myth but with no mention of the other moon that was in the sky for thousands of years. No casual remarks about how timekeeping may have changed with there being only one moon in the sky. MikkoAkure mentions astrologians taking Dalamud's projected location into account, and that's an excellent example of a little thing that makes sense in the setting! It was also way back in Heavensward (if not ARR; I don't actually recall seeing it myself).

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

Good thing this thread isn't about people not talking about when Dalamud fell. But some people here seem to think Dalamud sprang into existence only to then immediately fall out of the sky.

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One thing to take into account here is that in the grand scheme of things, Dalamud was never particularly large in the sky or terribly prominent. This was never a "there's two whole moons in the sky, this is so fantasy!" situation in this game. In earliest 1.0, it was a little bit bigger and brighter than say Venus is viewed from earth and barely larger than the stars around it. It was more of an accent to the real moon like a tiny little mole hanging off the side than a second full-sized moon like a lot of you seem to insinuate.

Think of the 6 different colored stars in the sky in-game and that’s what Dalamud was like, being the of similar size, except that it was only around the moon. We don’t exactly hear about what different cultures think of the giant green star in the sky outside the AST quests.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

There used to be two moons in the sky. One Xaela tribe, the Dalamiq, is said to worship Dalamud. We never see them in-game. Otherwise, everyone on the Steppe talks a lot about the sun and the singular moon.

How is it the second moon that existed until only five (canonical) years ago has had zero impact on Hingan, Yanxian, Hannish, and Turali culture?

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You've got a good point. I wouldn't expect there to be constant discussion of the red moon, but it would have presumably been part of the culture of any culture revering other heavenly bodies.

All of that said, I think the answer is obvious: understandable oversights were made with the writing and world-building. It certainly isn't the first time, certainly isn't the most impactful time, and it certainly won't be the last time.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

One thing to take into account here is that in the grand scheme of things, Dalamud was never particularly large in the sky or terribly prominent. This was never a "there's two whole moons in the sky, this is so fantasy!" situation in this game. In earliest 1.0, it was a little bit bigger and brighter than say Venus is viewed from earth and barely larger than the stars around it. It was more of an accent to the real moon like a tiny little mole hanging off the side than a second full-sized moon like a lot of you seem to insinuate.

Think of the 6 different colored stars in the sky in-game and that’s what Dalamud was like, being the of similar size, except that it was only around the moon. We don’t exactly hear about what different cultures think of the giant green star in the sky outside the AST quests.

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So perhaps the reason the Azim Steppe doesn't talk about Dalamud is because they didn't really think of Dalamud as a moon. It was on a scientific definitional level, and Menphina's faith called it a moon, but who says anyone else did? When it was up there it didn't necessarily look like one. Just like how Earth has plenty of moons, but also only really has one moon.

Maybe the only reason Eorzean faiths and knowledge called it a moon was because that was just a lingering relic of Allagan knowledge.

For clarity, this is what it looked like before it began to fall:

https://i.imgur.com/oqNetzD.jpeg

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Originally Posted by Tahli

A lot of art and culture does revolve around the natural world that they see around them, though. There are obvious ones like Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te. Even aside from that, you would think to see depictions of it just as much as the larger moon still in the sky, no?

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Speaking of the Miqo'te and moon; It's a pretty funny conincidence that the Moon Miqo'te are called Keepers, when both moons were prisons, one for Bahamut and the other for Zodiark. Unless of course that bit was planned from the very start of 1.0 and it was intentional.
It almost sounds like the Keepers of the Moon were once involved with guarding either Bahamut's or Zodiark's prison.

Anyway, in the Endwalker Alliance Raids we learn that the followers fo the Twelve acknowledged Dalamud so much, that their prayers made Menphina spawn an entire giant wolf from that believe, so yeah, it would make sense for other cultures over on Tural or Orthand to have some similar myths too.
Maybe we'll get that once we go to Merasidia, however many expansion in the future.

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Originally Posted by No_Nick_Needed

Speaking of the Miqo'te and moon; It's a pretty funny conincidence that the Moon Miqo'te are called Keepers, when both moons were prisons, one for Bahamut and the other for Zodiark. Unless of course that bit was planned from the very start of 1.0 and it was intentional.
It almost sounds like the Keepers of the Moon were once involved with guarding either Bahamut's or Zodiark's prison.

Anyway, in the Endwalker Alliance Raids we learn that the followers fo the Twelve acknowledged Dalamud so much, that their prayers made Menphina spawn an entire giant wolf from that believe, so yeah, it would make sense for other cultures over on Tural or Orthand to have some similar myths too.
Maybe we'll get that once we go to Merasidia, however many expansion in the future.

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Yeah! I think any hint of lore like that would be fascinating! Even if it was brought up only to deny connections.
(And answer some of my own questions of identity crisis as a Moon Miqo'te, myself)

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

So perhaps the reason the Azim Steppe doesn't talk about Dalamud is because they didn't really think of Dalamud as a moon. It was on a scientific definitional level

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"That's no moon, it's a space station."

I'd be hesitant to describe Dalamud in our modern scientific terms as a moon because of its completely artificial origin which removes the "natural" qualification from "natural satellite" and because it didn't orbit Etheirys directly anyway, it was described as being in orbit around the moon instead and as proof they were always together in the sky which would not happen if they both independently orbited the planet. While some might say the moon itself is artificial due to its origins, it's at least made of natural materials and indistinguishable from a naturally-made moon except for the prison holding a god.

In-universe the designation doesn't really matter much since (like other languages such as Japanese), they call the planet itself a "star" so designations of objects in space seem to be more vague than modern English's. Dalamud likely got its classification as a moon because it's slightly bigger than the other stars and is right next to the actual real moon. The description of the Dalamiq from the 51 tribes is the only reference I can think of using the term "lesser-moon" outside of Eorzea but the source seems to be written from an Eorzean perspective.

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Originally Posted by No_Nick_Needed

Speaking of the Miqo'te and moon; It's a pretty funny conincidence that the Moon Miqo'te are called Keepers, when both moons were prisons, one for Bahamut and the other for Zodiark. Unless of course that bit was planned from the very start of 1.0 and it was intentional.
It almost sounds like the Keepers of the Moon were once involved with guarding either Bahamut's or Zodiark's prison.

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1.0 didn't have Zodiark so it's probably a coincidence than anything else and the name "keepers" was likely chosen more to be similar with "seekers" than any actual possible hidden meanings.

From what I remember of interviews back then, Yoshi-P took Dalamud being more than meets the eye and containing Bahamut from a planned plot point in Tanaka's 1.0, but it wasn't originally supposed to fall to Eorzea and that was an excuse to blow up the world and start over. I don't think Zodiark had anything to do with the moon at all though until HW or SB since before that the Ascians gathered around the "Fathercrystal" with the large Zodiark statue or even that one time in a freaking dungeon in otherwise nondescript locations that did not evoke any idea of the moon at all.

The thing that moon Miqos need to be truly worried about for in regards to identity crises is one I've wondered about since 1.0 and to my knowledge has never been explained:
Why did a race of people who worship the moon above all things and who want to bathe in its light decide to live in a place that is specifically described as having the light of the sun and the moon completely blotted out by the extremely thick canopy of leaves to the point where outsiders refer to it as "the Black Shroud"?