PvP and Exp

I'm kinda sick of ppl going into FL' s with the, "Idc I'm only here for the exp," attitude. Why is exp even a part of PVP anyways? Everytime you go in there is someone hiding or multiple ppl hiding and not contributing to the game, or have half your Alliance just feed the other Alliance to just, "get it over with." Myself and others that enjoy doing PVP the best we can...shouldn't have to go into FL' and have to worry about our team/alli because we want to have fun and enjoy it and be competitive and not worry about others that just want exp and not play the match correctly or throw it. Can we just get rid of exp in PVP!

They should cut down the number of players per team and have better moderation for PvP.

Yes i agree, cut back on the exp rewards by a lot! Since queues are likely to get affected they should bring back 24 man (8v8v8) Frontlines like we used to have back in Stormblood as well.

This way the people who barely want to be there will probably stop q'ing and we're likely to have matches 24/7 since there will only be a minimum req of 24 players instead of 72. I imagine we'd still have 72 player matches during prime-time hours.

They already track damage, kills, occupations, damage to other.
I wouldn't be against exp been also tied to that, like a contribution %, if you did your part you get 1.0 multiplier if you just moved your char around you get a 0.0.

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Originally Posted by TalusRavenclaw

Can we just get rid of exp in PVP!

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YES please. While im currently abusing the exp as well, im always switching to my default pvp job and do my best. But so many dont even try, wait a minute after every death to even leave the start... even if your team is doing well, one of the others might not and feed the enemy until you got an unstoppable army of battle high...

I absolutely do not give up in matches, nor make excuses for players that don't even try, but I really don't think that removing exp from Frontlines would be a good thing, let alone the other modes.

The only reason the 8v8v8 Frontlines ever existed is because of how unpopular the PvP in this game was and queues would not pop otherwise. Having exp rewards instead of wolf marks which have woefully few uses helps to combat this (let alone ridiculous achievement victory requirements). 8v8v8 is not good, because the maps are not built to support 8v8v8. They had to dramatically change Secure for it to function with 8v8v8, removing 3 whole bases and adding jump pads to scale the mountain.

The problem is with moderation, not with rewards. Either players need to be able to self-moderate in a more 'meaningful' way, or they need to step up their budget to allow moderation of players that abuse the system. Something like a 'vote afk' might help, something that applies a debuff to players goofing off that prevents someone from getting rewards as an example (though this maybe wouldn't fix someone just only joining the fray at the last second to break the debuff, nor would it encourage someone to learn to play better). I don't think the fact that we can only vote dismiss once per... hour? Helps, nor that a player wouldn't be replaced into a match after 8 minutes has elapsed. That any dismissed player leaves without penalty also doesn't make it much of a penalty, only a nuisance to someone just trying to get exp.

Maybe additional incentives for *winning* (coming in first) would help, too. Significant bonus EVERYTHING, and significant, like 4x as much (the amount the big Forlorn gives for FATEs). Something that would make players that 'just want exp' change their calculus to not "how quickly can I lose" to "how much faster would it be if I win." If that were successful, having wolf marks be as useful as say bicolor gemstones would also give a continuing reason for players to try and play better, beyond leveling their jobs once every expansion. Purchase marketable crap for crafters, not just 'Materia at a ridiculous price', Dark Matter, Ventures or Meat & Mead manuals.

Edit: On top of Balmung_Griffin's point, specific actions in a match could also reward exp. This isn't a point others haven't made before, but scoring a kill could simply grant a % bonus, as could an assist, as could contributing to an objective. Do nothing? Get nothing. Even if it's not rewarding exp in real time, they could have UI elements that flash to the effect of what you managed to inform the player. That could make it feel more rewarding. Deaths could also not simply cost your team points, but cost you some of your personal % bonus, as it's generally never good to die in FL (it's often much worse in FL than the other two modes).

Well, it would probably be dead like rival wing if no one is bribed into playing it, But it also lured in a bunch of leech kings. Idk what exactly se wants

I don't know if Frontline pops less often or not if they remove the xp completely. Maybe they should reduce the xp by 50 % for 3rd place and increase by 50 % for 1st place to get at least maybe a bit more participation from those who are only there for the xp.

Anyway you alter the system, its primed for abuse. The best I can come up with as an alternative is a reward-as-you-go where you earn XP as you get assists, Kills, Captures, ect that would motivate the bottom 20% of players to consider putting more effort into the game mode, and have more weighted rewards for team placement. But even this has its weaknesses, current meta, and future meta's aside.

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Originally Posted by TalusRavenclaw

I'm kinda sick of ppl going into FL' s with the, "Idc I'm only here for the exp," attitude. Why is exp even a part of PVP anyways? Everytime you go in there is someone hiding or multiple ppl hiding and not contributing to the game, or have half your Alliance just feed the other Alliance to just, "get it over with." Myself and others that enjoy doing PVP the best we can...shouldn't have to go into FL' and have to worry about our team/alli because we want to have fun and enjoy it and be competitive and not worry about others that just want exp and not play the match correctly or throw it. Can we just get rid of exp in PVP!

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aye i agree
think folks with this attitude might be one of the reasons certain teams end up lowscoring third place?

PvP would be better without ExP, but it still wouldn't be good.

trust me, you don't want to remove exp from FL,
i'm experienced in many PvP games, and many large scale PvP games, not that i enjoy them.
i still prefer traditional PvP matches, which are obviously more enjoyable

the problem with big scale PvP games is that, it will never be fixed.
all of these big scale pvp games have this problem.
you think there are a lot of people, but people who actually try hard is like 1 in 30.
if you remove EXP, 3/4 of the player base would be gone in an instant

also due to the nature of this kind of game mode, it's impossible to balance and it's just ball versus ball versus ball simply due to the number of players and it's far less personal skill intensive, that just heavily favors one strate that is everybody stack together and spam AoE buff/damage, which is basically only one role and only favors a certain type of class, unless you make every class the same there' no way to balance.

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Originally Posted by TalusRavenclaw

I'm kinda sick of ppl going into FL' s with the, "Idc I'm only here for the exp," attitude.

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If someone says that after actively showcasing they aren't trying, vote kick them.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

If someone says that after actively showcasing they aren't trying, vote kick them.

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You can try, but most people will defend them and not kick them. Had someone who was the whole match afk in base, walking from 1 corner to the other to not get afk kicked. Nobody wanted to kick. Most players see PvP not as equal to PvE guidelines, so you are "unable to grief" anybody, because everyone is winning anyway, as everyone is getting ExP no matter if they win or lose.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

You can try, but most people will defend them and not kick them. Had someone who was the whole match afk in base, walking from 1 corner to the other to not get afk kicked. Nobody wanted to kick. Most players see PvP not as equal to PvE guidelines, so you are "unable to grief" anybody, because everyone is winning anyway, as everyone is getting ExP no matter if they win or lose.

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It isn't, and that is griefing, and reportable (whether that works is debatable), I have seen people get kicked, although it's true that it can be difficult even when justified as per your example. Whether "most" people believe " PvP not as equal to PvE guidelines" is subjective, I would hope that it isn't true of the majority.

because you can't tell if people just say it in the last attempt to defend their ego.
i come from a low population pvp game, so a lot of times i get queued with low rating people.
they are very fast to self defend when getting complained, "idc i'm just here for dailies"
in the end, nobody likes losing,
the reality is, they are not "not trying" they just simply bad and it's ok.
in large scale game mode, there will always be people who just farming and not care,
like alliance raid compared normal 4 men dungeon
the real "not trying" people won't even respond to you, they just stay as low key as possible

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Originally Posted by Canadane

If someone says that after actively showcasing they aren't trying, vote kick them.

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Good luck with that, people take more issue with others actually trying to win than leechers.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

It isn't, and that is griefing, and reportable (whether that works is debatable), I have seen people get kicked, although it's true that it can be difficult even when justified as per your example.

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Well, yeah - I am of the same opinion. But reality is, not enough really care enough in PvP to either kick or report most of the time in my experience. Like I see those players standing in the same spot for 5min in some corner, but I don't wanna spend my time in alliance chat pointing that out, just often means others will do the same and give up as well.

Idk, I guess daily exp roulette should be somewhat tied to winning at least, or make it only a 1/3 of the exp you would get for a win. It is if I remember right almost a level...it is huge.

My personal idea for a "solution" here would be two XP bonuses for frontlines

One much-smaller-than-current XP bonus for your first participation on Frontlines for the day
One similar-or-slightly-larger-than-current XP bonus for your first *win* of the day. Stacks with first match of the day if they are the same match.

Still encourages people to queue for Frontlines for their XP bonus, but incentivizes even the "i dont like frontlines" people to try in order to hopefully have their first match also be their last of the day.

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Originally Posted by Aldondamar

My personal idea for a "solution" here would be two XP bonuses for frontlines

One much-smaller-than-current XP bonus for your first participation on Frontlines for the day
One similar-or-slightly-larger-than-current XP bonus for your first *win* of the day. Stacks with first match of the day if they are the same match.

Still encourages people to queue for Frontlines for their XP bonus, but incentivizes even the "i dont like frontlines" people to try in order to hopefully have their first match also be their last of the day.

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That's rather cunning and could be implemented simply through the challenge log.

I play pvp FL for the daily rewards but I at least try and play however I can. Usually I get In a team with no leadership and just end up running around like headless chickens. I sure as hell don't know the nuanced gameplay so I ain't taking control of it. I do however Hate people who complain in ally chat when there is no leadership. Ok that's great but maybe you could attempt to lead? Otherwise go kick rocks.

I may be a "tome goblin" apparently (been called that directly dispite actually trying) or whatever but at least I try in games I play. I'm not good but it's better than feeding or sitting there doing nothing. I just take it as "If I win I win, if I lose I lose".

I definitely get it, not having a game mode for dedicated players and have to deal with afk or even bits in some cases. I have no idea on how it can be fixed. Maybe have it so roulette FL is a separate version to a competitive FL? That way people who like FL and pvp can have more fun doing that? Might mess up the queues on both ends but it's an idea at least.

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Originally Posted by TalusRavenclaw

Can we just get rid of exp in PVP!

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I disagree with removing exp from pvp because that’s how I level my alt Jobs that I don’t use in PvE. It’s one of the best ways to level jobs that you might not use but still want at max level in case you ever change your mind.

Instead, they should implement a requirement to unlock FL roulette, i.e. series level 10 or something. Though that option might only delay the inevitable.

A better option would be to have FL roulette tied to a pvp title, like storm/serpent/flame chaser or something (or even hand of mercy). Something that is easily obtainable but requires that you win (or atleast contribute - aka HoM) to achieve it. This way people are incentivized to win while they try to unlock it. Usually when people actually learn how pvp works in this game, they start trying because they finally understand it and want to get better/win. Having the roulette locked behind a title serves both the purpose of players trying to win and eventually trying to get better. In theory atleast.