Please stop splitting the MSQ between two Stories [spoilers]

Attenion there will be spoilers in this thread

Stormblood, Endwalker, Dawntrail

What does these three have in common? All three have a MSQ that is split in two. Stormblood was split between Ala Mihgo and Doma, Endwalker was split from Garlemald and resolving things with Zenos to suddenly Sad Bird Girl is destroying the world, and Dawntrail went from Right of Succession to suddenly Alexandria.

Square, please stop doing this.

I understand the desire to tell the story so you can move on to the stories you want to tell, but this impatience does not do the pacing of the game any good. These areas desrve more respect and time to flesh out the characters that live in work in these places. In the example of end walkers I felt Garlemald was wasted. Not only was it destroyed off screen, but then any major story beats fall flat here because suddenly the world ending threat out of no where overshadows it and the struggles of Garlemald are forgotten. Did anyone else notice how Garlemald is still hidden by a cloud on the official map? There is more to explore there and Endwalkers should have been the expansion to do it. I think we could have gotten more out of endwalkers - but I 'll set that aside for now because that is a distraction from my true point which is:Having two stories in one MSQ really hurts the pacing of the game.

My enjoyment of FFXIV really stems from the Story. When the story captures me, it makes me want to live in this world. When the story fails to do that, I cancel my sub.

It is clear that this kind of thinking is a problem when you have the biggest expansion ever in Dawntrail and a lot of its moments fall flat due to pacing issues. Moments like Wuk Lamat's father, Krile's Parents, Erenville's mom - all these don't get the time they deserve. So much time is spent on Wuk Lamat, when the time could easily be spread out on the characters participating in the story with her. Give the other contestants time to develope into full fledged characters. Show them struggle in their own ways with the trial.

By the Twelve, it could have been so beautiful.

Imagine the scenario where the plot focused soley on Wuk Lamat's journey. You might argue that things would be more padded, but in my opinion this would only give more time and room to develop the regions and characters of Tural. Think about it.

Shadowbringers is universally loved. Why? Did you ever notice that its plot had a single throughline? From the beginning to the end it told a single story, not two different stories. It is honestly how all expansions should be. If Dawntrail had followed Shadowbringers example instead of Stormblood it would have been a much better expansion.

Meanwhile places like Solution 9 feel empty and lifeless because so little time is spent living and developing there.

You have ten years ahead of you, whats the rush?

Yeah, Garlemald proper should have been it's own expansion.

An reccuring issue that started with the introduction of Zenos. Skipping out on the political drama. In SB Zenos was a black hole for it, not caring about it at all. In ShB Zenos was straight up used to kill it off. Bozja was cut short. And since then we haven't really had any of it to fill that spot.

So we are left with characters that don't really have that much weight to the world.

What's odder is that this was split into two, but it still felt like a filler episode in a lot of ways. The single Azem reference at the end isn't exactly on the same level as how they built up the intrigue of the Ascians and the nature of the world in ARR. I've said it before, but I was really hoping for an ARR style of expansion, but it seems they have their own ideas.

The level of entitlement here is unreal, imo. I almost feel insulted for the writer/writers.

Though the pacing might be fast and abrupt, I will disagree that the stories from your examples are 'split'. They are not.

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

The level of entitlement here is unreal, imo. I almost feel insulted for the writer/writers.

Though the pacing might be fast and abrupt, I will disagree that the stories from your examples are 'split'. They are not.

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Yoshi himself have said they chose to cut the storylines down.

There is no split in the story. The focus ist in each of these expansions on a Character. Stormblood was Lyse, Endwalker Fandaniel/Hermes and Dawntrail is Wuk Lamat. These Characters were the focus of each Story. The diffrent locations where they went was the story.

And yes the WoL is the Main character of FFXIV but the focus in evrey Expansion was on a diffrent Character or characters. In ARR it was the Scions, in HW Estinian and Ysale Shadowbringer was Emet-Selch and Minfilia/Ryne.

I think the OP is confused by what splitting a story implies. Literally it would be telling one story seperated into multiple parts, that can function as solo stories. The Hydaelyn and Zodiark saga is an example of split story telling, as it incorporates the original launch and the expansions ARR to EW. But each expansion can function on it's own.

What the expansions listed, and arguably every expansion thus far, does is called story threading, which focuses and connects a story through character experiences. Each expansion deals with characters whose experiences drive the story and connects the plots of seemingly "unrelated things". Every expansions base story, besides possibly Shadowbringers, has the focus shift as the story demands. ARR shifts from humble beginnings to fighting the "big bad"; common in most JRPGs. HW shifts from ending a war, to ending a corrupt religion. StB shifts between two characters trying to end the same conflict in their respective regions. EW shifts from trying to stop the Telophoroi to trying to stop the return of the final days. And DT shifts from a "peaceful" rite of succession to trying to prevent an invasion from another world. These all connect by the characters shared experiences.

Admittedly, how the sections of the story connect can feel a bit "flimsy" at times, but they are still important overall. Garlemald is that connection point in Endwalker, and is arguably one of the better ones given its relevance to the overall plot.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I think the OP is confused by what splitting a story implies. Literally it would be telling one story seperated into multiple parts, that can function as solo stories. The Hydaelyn and Zodiark saga is an example of split story telling, as it incorporates the original launch and the expansions ARR to EW. But each expansion can function on it's own.

What the expansions listed, and arguably every expansion thus far, does is called story threading, which focuses and connects a story through character experiences. Each expansion deals with characters whose experiences drive the story and connects the plots of seemingly "unrelated things". Every expansions base story, besides possibly Shadowbringers, has the focus shift as the story demands. ARR shifts from humble beginnings to fighting the "big bad"; common in most JRPGs. HW shifts from ending a war, to ending a corrupt religion. StB shifts between two characters trying to end the same conflict in their respective regions. EW shifts from trying to stop the Telophoroi to trying to stop the return of the final days. And DT shifts from a "peaceful" rite of succession to trying to prevent an invasion from another world. These all connect by the characters shared experiences.

Admittedly, how the sections of the story connect can feel a bit "flimsy" at times, but they are still important overall. Garlemald is that connection point in Endwalker, and is arguably one of the better ones given its relevance to the overall plot.

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ShB still had a pretty sharp turn from killing the Lightwardens to everything that came after the gunshot, but the two flowed into each other much better than most of the other focus shifts. One part it did especially well was the lull between Innocence and The Tempest where the WoL was facing a fate worse than death, the First was on the brink again, and some characters were desperately trying to find a solution while others were resigning themselves to their fate. The game hasn't had a lot of segments like that which were slow and low-action but with such a heavy atmosphere.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

ShB still had a pretty sharp turn from killing the Lightwardens to everything that came after the gunshot, but the two flowed into each other much better than most of the other focus shifts. One part it did especially well was the lull between Innocence and The Tempest where the WoL was facing a fate worse than death, the First was on the brink again, and some characters were desperately trying to find a solution while others were resigning themselves to their fate. The game hasn't had a lot of segments like that which were slow and low-action but with such a heavy atmosphere.

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This is true, I didn't think of it that way. Thanks for the info.

I very much enjoyed the story. I think it's fine. Certainly better than the SB split.

Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if we see another split storyline in 8.0 if we end up staying in the source.

Consider the formula of SB/EW/DT:

SB: 3 Zones/City (Ala Mhigo) + 3 Zones/City (Othard)

EW: Sharlayan/Ilsabard (harder to apportion zones specifically since EW is a bit all over the place)

DT: 3 Zones/City (South Tural) + 3 Zones City (North Tural)

Extrapolating out to 8.0, and you’ll get my guess for next expac: 3 Zones/City (Meracaydia) + 3 Zones/City (More Ilsabard). Only other option I see is one of the above plus shard shenanigans, or another full shard story.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Yeah, Garlemald proper should have been it's own expansion.

An reccuring issue that started with the introduction of Zenos. Skipping out on the political drama. In SB Zenos was a black hole for it, not caring about it at all. In ShB Zenos was straight up used to kill it off. Bozja was cut short. And since then we haven't really had any of it to fill that spot.

So we are left with characters that don't really have that much weight to the world.

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Im still so mad about this 12 years of build up

I gaze into the future, and 8.0 is one story in one location. The forum has 50 topics of people whining about being bored with that story and spending too long in one location.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Im still so mad about this 12 years of build up

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While I don't think it should've been it's own expansion, as even the Devs said it probably would've contained a lot more filler, it would've been nice to get more on them besides what we got in side and supplementary content. Most of the discord happened off screen, so it's a bit harder to resonate with.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

While I don't think it should've been it's own expansion, as even the Devs said it probably would've contained a lot more filler, it would've been nice to get more on them besides what we got in side and supplementary content. Most of the discord happened off screen, so it's a bit harder to resonate with.

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I assume the idea was that it'd be creepy to enter the heart of a nation as large and advanced as the Garlean Empire and find nothing but silence and ash, but it was a lot of buildup thrown out for the sake of the Ascian of a thousand names and our bff. That said, I still think In from the Cold is one of the best solo duties they've made as far as intertwining narrative and gameplay goes, and Quintus's suicide was an excellent scene.

SB is the only issue where I feel like the region split was to the story's detriment. Largely because it was two separate storeies with little connection outside of both being 'resist the empire.' With the same goal playing out twice but in isolation mostly.

In Endwalker we do a lot of globe trotting. But it fits better because it's a single narrative thread with highs and lows.

In DT, the stories are fairly separate with Zoraal Ja serving as the connecting tissue to transition from one to the other. But the two halves are different enough that it doesn't have the same issue SB did for me. (Plus it helps that unlike Zenos in SB, none of the major villains are literally bored by the plot in DT.)

Stormblood's story is fine being split, because it literally deals with the same foe (Garlemald) on both fronts they conquered. To me the big issue is that the Gyr Abanian portion of that MSQ is pretty bland compared to the richness that is Othard.

I feel the Garlemald-only expansion was really due, and it should've been 5.0, really, because it's the natural follow up of Stormblood. Then Endwalker to resolve the Hydaelyn x Zodiark saga in 6.0 and then Shadowbringers' plot moving forward in 7.0, leaving Tural to be explored in 8.0.

Unpopular opinion: releasing the x.0 MSQ in one piece is a bad idea. It's IMHO better to release it in 2-3 pieces set a few weeks apart, with events in between to prepare the next phase. Then that filler wouldn't be that annoying and in fact, would contribute to world building.

Stormblood: Story is not split. Both sides are in the midst of a revolution against the Garlean Empire. Going to different locations and seeing different perspectives is not "splitting the story".

Endwalker: Everything funnels into the Final Days.

Dawntrail: Everything funnels into the search for the Golden City. The "rite of succession" plot is all a step towards getting to that revelation.

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

The level of entitlement here is unreal, imo. I almost feel insulted for the writer/writers.

Though the pacing might be fast and abrupt, I will disagree that the stories from your examples are 'split'. They are not.

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Entitlement because someone doesn't share your views? Isn't that sentiment, umm...entitlement?

There seems to be a gripe with the phrasing "splitting the story", so I'd say the issue is more of cramming 2 arcs into one X.0 MSQ, not giving either part enough space to breathe. I think the main issue is that Dawntrail's MSQ feels quite rushed and not as polished as it should have been to pull this off. The fact that many think so much it is filler means they didn't get the build up right.
The fact that the second arc was the second world threatening shard-related event since EW also warrants it to have more build up. Facing Zoraal Ja as the main boss would have been enough. Establishing another shard as the source of his power could work, and then have Sphene in the Post-MSQ. The Shards are starting to lose their impact, they show up and we save/stop them in the span of a few levels. They don't feel like their own complete worlds.

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Originally Posted by ElaineEura

There seems to be a gripe with the phrasing "splitting the story", so I'd say the issue is more of cramming 2 arcs into one X.0 MSQ, not giving either part enough space to breathe.

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Yeah I feel like people are dismissing OP because of semantics whereas in my eyes it's pretty clear what they want to say.

I agree with OP. I didn't it happening in EW in particular. In SB I think it was ok because as somebody else said, in the grand scheme of things they were part of one big arc.
The same can't be said about DT except for the incredibly thin thread of yarn that is the golden city which "connects" both halves of the story.
Solution 9 and the philosophical questions about souls and death they tried to tackle were way too rushed and underdeveloped.

TBH Half an expac being essentially a doorboss is par for the course considering the devs approach to the games structure at large >.>