PvP Machinsit solves PvE Machinist problems

I didn't enjoy machinist PvE before.. but today I tried it in PvP and oh boy the job is way better..

I don't know if these changes to attack being so satisfying and heavy feeling could go to PvE at some point but I wish they do

Attack feels heavy like warrior

Mobility not like casters

I would like to add 1 thing just to balance things out for PvE that after casting any attack just add 20% move speed for 1 second after each attack on 1 - 2 - 3 combo

PvP Machinist just feels satisfying to hit a basic 1 attack

YES!! Walking casts solve a lot of balance, and gameplay problems for phys ranged. MCH, and BRD should have had walking casts like yesterday.

I'm really not convinced on walking casts for pve (hint: they're worse to play around than actual casts, way more cumbersome to cancel, and won't magically make you able to dodge stuff much easier, but they do feel less stressful to use).

But I do believe that pve design could definitely take inspiration from a lot of pvp concepts. What feels great with pvp MCH is the burst flexibility and how to set it up, and how to end it. You end up making choices every 20s with wildfire that all adjust to the situation, where the target stands, etc. I wish the job was more focused on those small regular and modular bursts than the current carpal tunnel spamm of pve hypercharge.

What pvp MCH does badly though is overheat, which is frankly, not very great and controllable. I hope they do change it for 7.1. Ironically overheat burst was great in pve...

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Originally Posted by Valence

I'm really not convinced on walking casts for pve (hint: they're worse to play around than actual casts, way more cumbersome to cancel, and won't magically make you able to dodge stuff much easier, but they do feel less stressful to use).

But I do believe that pve design could definitely take inspiration from a lot of pvp concepts. What feels great with pvp MCH is the burst flexibility and how to set it up, and how to end it. You end up making choices every 20s with wildfire that all adjust to the situation, where the target stands, etc. I wish the job was more focused on those small regular and modular bursts than the current carpal tunnel spamm of pve hypercharge.

What pvp MCH does badly though is overheat, which is frankly, not very great and controllable. I hope they do change it for 7.1. Ironically overheat burst was great in pve...

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Walking casting is the best thing in Machinist PvE kit

I think it will work in PvE with minimal adjustment

Current MCH would actually transition to getting walking casts pretty well. Replace the Clean Shot combo with Blast Charge, it grants 5 or 10 heat per use, and after every 3 Blast Charges, you get an off global attack that grants 10 battery. All multitools, and Blazing shot would still be instant so there would be plenty of options for mobility. The main issue would be potentially cutting back on double weaving. BRD would need more work to make walking casts work, and DNC should not get walking casts as they would disrupt its flow too much, and it already has pseudo casting mechanics with its dance steps.

Wait, you want MCH's combo filler to turn into a walk cast 1-1-1 spamm? I don't have much love for the basic melee combo they gave it but this sounds like healer territory... Even Bard's is more engaging with RA procs.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Wait, you want MCH's combo filler to turn into a walk cast 1-1-1 spamm? I don't have much love for the basic melee combo they gave it but this sounds like healer territory... Even Bard's is more engaging with RA procs.

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Actually yeah I do kinda want it. It would be more like 1-1-1-2 etc.. The spam should be disrupted by tools, and Hypercharge at roughly the same rate if done correctly so it would be pretty far from healer territory. Spam isn't bad, but it is incredibly easy to make bad spam.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Actually yeah I do kinda want it. It would be more like 1-1-1-2 etc.. The spam should be disrupted by tools, and Hypercharge at roughly the same rate if done correctly so it would be pretty far from healer territory. Spam isn't bad, but it is incredibly easy to make bad spam.

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If attacks feels impactful no need for more buttons..
Pressing fire 4 or Fell cleave is so satisfying i dont mind pressing them more

If there is one thing rphys needs, it's more intricate rotations with actual agency, not a simplification... F4 works well because BLM has other (big) things to deal with. Ranged physical doesn't...

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Originally Posted by Valence

If there is one thing rphys needs, it's more intricate rotations with actual agency, not a simplification... F4 works well because BLM has other (big) things to deal with. Ranged physical doesn't...

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Machinist had big attacks no?

I mean there should be a downside being range to remove range tax + no casting tax

I believe PvP bard and Machinist is a great starting point to design PvE physical range

I wasn't aware about walking casts before this thread, but it felt very satisfying to use on testing. I'll caveat this with the fact that I'm not a physical ranged main and this should not be interpreted as a recommendation for or against on my part.

To answer Valence's point about cast cancellation, I think it depends on whether the developers could implement a channeled moving cast. Effectively, you would press a button, incur a movement penalty while held, and then regain normal movement on release. If you held it for the full duration you get the full potency, but if you release early you inflict the percentage that you charged for. If you've ever played Hanzo on Overwatch, it's basically the same idea. I think channeled effects, be it as stationary, walking, or even full movement casts could be one way in which Physical Ranged could distinguish itself from other roles.

I think it's worth brainstorming as a role right now, because if we're going off of previous release orders, they ought to release a Physical Ranged DPS one of the next jobs. If you want things to change for the role, now is the time to get your ideas in.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Machinist had big attacks no?

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You misunderstand me: BLM has casting uptime constraints that can justify a more repetitive rotation, MCH has nothing.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I wasn't aware about walking casts before this thread, but it felt very satisfying to use on testing. I'll caveat this with the fact that I'm not a physical ranged main and this should not be interpreted as a recommendation for or against on my part.

To answer Valence's point about cast cancellation, I think it depends on whether the developers could implement a channeled moving cast. Effectively, you would press a button, incur a movement penalty while held, and then regain normal movement on release. If you held it for the full duration you get the full potency, but if you release early you inflict the percentage that you charged for. If you've ever played Hanzo on Overwatch, it's basically the same idea. I think channeled effects, be it as stationary, walking, or even full movement casts could be one way in which Physical Ranged could distinguish itself from other roles.

I think it's worth brainstorming as a role right now, because if we're going off of previous release orders, they ought to release a Physical Ranged DPS one of the next jobs. If you want things to change for the role, now is the time to get your ideas in.

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I'd rather have rphys to have its own unique constraint, if possible not tied to positioning and mobility, which are two niches already occupied by melee DPS and caster DPS respectively.

I'm also reluctant with buttons to keep pressed since it completely changes the paradigm of mouse/keyboard layouts and which hands/fingers you use to move at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I wasn't aware about walking casts before this thread, but it felt very satisfying to use on testing. I'll caveat this with the fact that I'm not a physical ranged main and this should not be interpreted as a recommendation for or against on my part.

To answer Valence's point about cast cancellation, I think it depends on whether the developers could implement a channeled moving cast. Effectively, you would press a button, incur a movement penalty while held, and then regain normal movement on release. If you held it for the full duration you get the full potency, but if you release early you inflict the percentage that you charged for. If you've ever played Hanzo on Overwatch, it's basically the same idea. I think channeled effects, be it as stationary, walking, or even full movement casts could be one way in which Physical Ranged could distinguish itself from other roles.

I think it's worth brainstorming as a role right now, because if we're going off of previous release orders, they ought to release a Physical Ranged DPS one of the next jobs. If you want things to change for the role, now is the time to get your ideas in.

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it is not just satisfying to use but make sense!

We know that archer or gunner type of jobs have to aim and focus on most attacks
it makes sense to have walking casting so they aim correctly.. even if button canceled it should do damage but less

In this case we can finally have Black mage for physical range

MCH need some buff potency to rival the raid buffs of the other phys range but the class is quite strong compare to other phys range in terms of defense utility. A reprisal and tactictian. That's 25% mig.