Whats the purpose of this rainbow condition?
Ive seen people recommend from to time to use +Q skill on rainbow, but it always give me instability when I try that
Rainbow condition
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07-31-2012, 06:34 AMrina_inverseRainbow condition
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07-31-2012, 09:08 AMEstellios
Rainbow orb is the lowest chance of success but the highest quality/progress gains if you manage to succeed.
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07-31-2012, 09:57 AMtymora
On equal level recipes with 0 craftsmanship, tests suggest about +30% failure rate on rainbow.
Comparatively, yellow has no noticeable increased failure rate, and red is about +15%.
On recipes 20+ levels lower, all orb colors normalizes to the more or less the same break percentage, about at about 20%.
Following the trend, trying to do anything on rainbow on high recipes without a skill that guarantees success, is silly as you are most certainly to fail. On the other hand, you want as many rainbow orbs as possible if the recipe is low.
This is yet another fun (and frustrating) aspect of crafting.
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The relationship is not linear and I don't have enough good data to give a nice graph or a better estimate. Use these numbers as a general guide, not a rule. -
07-31-2012, 10:01 AMAmyNeudaizI'd like to know your sample size for that because that just doesn't seem right to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by tymora
Unless I'm misunderstanding. -
07-31-2012, 10:40 AMtymora
Very low number for samples, ~100 fish across 6 data points, hence the "general guide, not a rule" part. Not going to put too much effort in this now with 2.0 on the horizon though.
What doesn't seem right to you btw? -
07-31-2012, 12:16 PMMikita
Just wanted to add that because success on the rainbow orb gives the greatest gains in Quality, the abilities that are often used are:
Byregot's Blessing (Carpentry L45) for 100% quality gain on the next 3 steps.
... followed by Culmination (Weaver L45) to ensure Great Success. Used in combination with Byregot's Blessing on a rainbow orb gives you somewhere between a 90 ~ 130 Quality gain.
... followed by Perfection (Carpentry L36) for Great Success on Careful synthesis... hopefully on another rainbow or red orb during Byregot's Blessing for another big gain in Quality.
Increasing your Control stat will reduce the chance of an element going unstable on a failed action, regardless of the color of the orb.
Or you can play off the instability by having the appropriate Brand of ____ set for another 100 Quality gain when it goes unstable...
But that, IMO, is more of a gamble since the element can go unstable and blow up multiple times (ultimately causing you to fail the synth and negate the Quality gain from using the Brand), or not go unstable at all (in which case you waste an ability slot with the unused Brand).
I tend to only do this when leveling on cheap materials. If I'm working with expensive materials I would much rather go for Control and ensure success of the synth. -
07-31-2012, 07:17 PMrina_inverse
hmm
so for HQ recipe, based on my skill set, I guess I should avoid rainbow
thanks guys -
08-04-2012, 03:41 AMMadrox
Where can I find tests and information on the orbs colors. I've never been able to locate them.
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08-04-2012, 03:43 AMMadrox
I've been unable to locate tests and information on orb colors, can lease point me in the right direction?
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08-04-2012, 04:02 AMtymora
None out there except on the spreadsheets on my system, and probably a few more others.
As for mine, with such a low sample (low accuracy), no point to post. Still have some unknowns around. -
08-04-2012, 05:40 AMAmyNeudaizI generally notice yellow having a slightly higher fail rate than white and from my experiences red is almost as bad as rainbow. I guess I bolded a bit too much there.Quote:
Originally Posted by tymora
But this is just my experience talking, I have no solid data. -
08-04-2012, 05:47 AMKioteThis is not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estellios
Rainbow is the Highest Chance of Destabilizing with no redeeming Qualities.
Yellow is the lowest chance of Success with the Highest potential Qual Gains. -
08-04-2012, 05:51 AMKioteYou do not need a test to confirm what the Colors do. Yoshida has already stated publicly:Quote:
Originally Posted by Madrox
White - Normal Success, Normal Quality
Red - Lower Success, Higher Quality
Yellow - Lowest Success, Highest Quality
Slow Rainbow - Higher Chance of Destabilizing
Fast Rainbow - Highest Chance of Destabilizing -
08-04-2012, 05:51 AMAmyNeudaizI must of missed that o.oQuote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
Where is this post at? -
08-04-2012, 05:55 AMKioteI'm not digging for it, it was posted on the forums. It was around the time when he said he didn't believe in hiding necessary information from players, but rumors like the moon were too fun to confirm or deny.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz
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08-04-2012, 08:17 AMRaldoThis is not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...e/craft01.html
Quote:
The Stability of Synthesis Materials
The stability of synthesis materials is represented by the color of the glowing light displayed onscreen while crafting. Each command executed has an effect on stability.
When the glowing light is white, the materials are extremely stable, and the chances of success of synthesis commands are increased. The light may also turn from yellow, to red, to multiple colors flashing rapidly. Though these states represent progressively lower chances of success when executing commands, they also indicate times at which the quality of the synthesis can most easily be enhanced, therefore increasing the likelihood of creating a high-quality item.
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08-04-2012, 08:19 AMAmyNeudaizNice, thank you for the official information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raldo
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08-04-2012, 05:49 PMrina_inversehmm? how come yellow is lower than red?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
yellow has bigger energy than red -
08-04-2012, 09:08 PMMijin
When I first read the title of this thread I read Rainbow Connection.
But on the actual subject:
White - Normal Success, Normal Quality
Red - Lower Success, Higher Quality
Yellow - Lowest Success, Highest Quality
Slow Rainbow - Higher Chance of Destabilizing
Fast Rainbow - Highest Chance of Destabilizing
Is also the formula I've always used.
I've just always considered that rainbow orbs have a chance of being any of the colored ones at random, hence why its a rainbow of colors. However, no matter which one it ends up being it would have a higher chance of destabilizing. -
08-05-2012, 02:34 AMRaldo
Nobody read this? Seriously? It's like... two posts up. Sigh. Let me post it again, then give a summary of what it says.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...e/craft01.html
Highest Success <----------> Lowest SuccessQuote:
The Stability of Synthesis Materials
The stability of synthesis materials is represented by the color of the glowing light displayed onscreen while crafting. Each command executed has an effect on stability.
When the glowing light is white, the materials are extremely stable, and the chances of success of synthesis commands are increased. The light may also turn from yellow, to red, to multiple colors flashing rapidly. Though these states represent progressively lower chances of success when executing commands, they also indicate times at which the quality of the synthesis can most easily be enhanced, therefore increasing the likelihood of creating a high-quality item.
Lowest Quality Gain <-------> Highest Quality Gain (upon success)
White <> Yellow <> Red <> Flashing/Rainbow -
08-05-2012, 02:39 AMAmyNeudaizLol, hush hush now. Let people believe what they want to while we follow the official word on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raldo
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08-05-2012, 06:25 AMKioteI'm sorry man, but you are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raldo
This is not specifying the direction in which the risks and rewards change. It is simply stating that any state that is not white has different effects on Quality and Stabilization.Quote:
The light may also turn from yellow, to red, to multiple colors flashing rapidly. Though these states represent progressively lower chances of success when executing commands, they also indicate times at which the quality of the synthesis can most easily be enhanced
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08-05-2012, 06:33 AMRaldo
I'll agree that there's some room for interpretation there, so you're welcome to read it however you like, but I'm pretty sure that list of colors is in order. Mainly due to the word "progressively". If you were to ask an English major or English teacher, they'd probably tell you the same thing.
Either way, I certainly won't be subscribing to your beliefs without some data to back it up. On the other hand, I have no evidence to provide you in favor of my beliefs other than telling you that's just how I'm interpreting that paragraph. /shrug -
08-05-2012, 07:08 AMKiotelol. You can believe whatever you want. My information is directly from the Producer of Final Fantasy XIV. The fact that you wont take that at face value is annoying me enough that I'm actually not playing right now just so I can find his post..Quote:
Originally Posted by Raldo
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08-05-2012, 07:23 AMRaldo
I am honored. /bow
I have trained under Sir Hildebrand himself in order to master the art of annoying others in search of the truth!
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...imsaInn_02.png -
08-05-2012, 07:31 AMtymora
Kiote must be on drugs for that interpretation.
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08-05-2012, 10:03 AMQuesseThis is true. However its not true that rainbow has "no redeeming qualities".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
This is wrong. The above list was from Yoshida himself... you're just twisting the statement "The light may also turn from yellow, to red, to multiple colors flashing rapidly" to mean the actual progression of increased destabilization which is just a wild (and incorrect) guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raldo
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08-05-2012, 11:42 AMRaldo
Then show the source where he said that, 'cause I've never seen it. I'm perfectly willing to be wrong, but I'm not going to go along with just hearsay.
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08-05-2012, 01:08 PMAmyNeudaiz
Although the quality increase can be left up to interpretation, the fact of the matter is that it's White > Yellow > Red > Flashing for success rates. Raldo is correct in that statement since it comes from an official post he has supplied.
Anything else you say can't be taken as truth until proven. The burden of proof lies with he who makes the claim. -
08-06-2012, 06:15 PMEstellios
Seriously, it states plainly White > Yellow > Red > Rainbow for progressively worse success rates and has been that way since launch. Doing a TON of crafting for hamlet defense turn ins, this is also the order for lowest to greatest quality gains upon success. It's entirely obvious even from eyeballing it. The notion that the riskier colors would not have any kind of payoff is extremely stupid even for this game.
There is literally no other way to interpret this statement other than White > Yellow > Red > Rainbow for best to worst success rates.Quote:
The light may also turn from yellow, to red, to multiple colors flashing rapidly. Though these states represent progressively lower chances of success when executing commands
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08-06-2012, 08:03 PMMikitaOne of the funny things about language and communication is that not matter how carefully and clearly we think we've written something, two people can read it and interpret the words in completely different ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estellios
Too often through discourse we are not really seeking the truth...
We are only seeking to confirm what we already think to be true. -
08-07-2012, 02:05 PMAsiaine
If you wish to try, you can use skill for 'Ensures Great Success' on the different coloured orbs. You will see big difference in quality gain. Rainbow gives a lot more than White and even more than Red. It may not be written out as technical as desired to make sure there is no ambiguity, but give it a try and you will see.
*goes back to crafting and humming*
Someday... you'll find it.
The rainbow.. condition.
The weavers, the armorers, and me.