A bold proposal for harmony

Thank you for reading this post, and I welcome feedback.

Here I propose a system satisfying both types of players.

For paid players, a casual mode for MSQ dungeons&trials is accessible.

For free-to-play ones, only the hard mode is available.

Thank you for you time, and feel free to ask! ♥

There is already casual mode for dungeons and trials, it's called Duty Finder. For the people who want it easy and no pressure, there's trusts.
Some people who are complaining right now would probably be happy with what you're pining for, but most want to clear the same content as everyone else.
IE: The most popular post is about the raids, nothing to do with story.
You're basically pining for the game to tell them they can't, and here's a consolation prize. :P
At what point do we say "it's enough, we don't need to bend over backwards for everyone", that "not a single game will cater to everyone" and "it's okay if this isn't for you, for everybody's sake, look for an experience that is instead of changing this".
Realize this might seem mean, but a majority of the people who are pining for easier difficulty are mean waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the majority of people who say no, and empathize much less with our perspective lol. It's all about them.
Also, at what point do we realize that this is a MMO, and like, I don't think they want to split their playerbase and add friction for a player who's been playing this with trusts for 90 levels and decides to try with players.
If someone can't play this, it's okay, I can't play counter-strike anymore because am honestly terrible at it, feels like am probably too old, and that's okay lol.
There's some other stuff for me, like FFXIV, but here, am on the opposite, some players who can't play it want to take my experience away from me. Do you see how repulsive this debate is from my side ? lol.
And we're painted the villains. :P

Another thing is... Even the most hardcore raider will do story, and they might want it to be engaging too.

It's weird to me, people don't do this with any other kind of entertainment. If a movie is too graphic for us or in a style we don't like, we don't watch it, we don't ask for changes.
The "harmony" side of this would be these players realizing that the content just came out, that no one is overgearing the content, that the expansion is barely a month old, everyone is still learning it, everyone is barely edging over the minimum ilvl, that a huge influx of players came in and that probably lowered the average skill level... All of these things make it so you can rely less on other people or on gear, which make the content seem harder, but none of these things are the content actually being harder. It's a tiiiny bit faster paced, it's barely perceptible lol.
There's plenty of players out there willing to help people who are struggling, but having a positive attitude and wanting to learn is step 1 to that, I think.
All I see from the other side is demands that the game gets nerfed or twists itself into offering alternative paths. They don't want help or learning.

What about the most obvious solution: Asking for help ?
I already see the easy "social anxiety" response, welp, if you never try to get over it, you never will.
I have social anxiety too, and lookit me nyooming on the forums and in-game. I developed that skill.
On the other hand, maybe we can ask ourselves "is a massively multiplayer game for you" ?

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Originally Posted by jdtuggey

There's some other stuff for me, like FFXIV, but here, am on the opposite, some players who can't play it want to take my experience away from me.

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Oh you think it's difficult? How unfortunate.

I fall asleep more in the new dungeons now.

I am proposing a real hard mode for hardcore casual players like you,

further lowering the output/input ratio, and for free.

And the true casual players can enjoy their paid service as solid as before. Thank you.

If you fall asleep more in the dungeons now, why are you torturing yourself ?
If it's gonna be a push pull of "You weren't doing good before, now you are, but I am not", why not defer to the people the game actually belongs to.
Just let them cook.
Also let like... More content come out. Even if you don't do savage, savage raiders will lift everybody with them. Crafted gear is coming out next week too. People will get used to this new pace too.
Of course when you compare the experience of being grossly overgeared in content we've done on repeat for 250 times to a slight increase in pace + barely edging over ilvl + content people haven't learned, it feels like it's more difficult, but we're missing critical context here.

Then, is it free to make changes like that ? That's debatable. I see it as "Square Enix has a pool of resources, and resources that go towards X don't go towards Y", you don't know if implementing this would be frictionless.
I know that everytime I tackle a coding job that I think will take 10 minutes, it takes an hour and a half.
Also, if Y is something I'd care about that is scrapped to instead make another X for people that don't really want to engage with the game, I'd consider that a cost I'm incurring.

Here's a scenario: There was complaints about the normal raids. To me, the normal raids aren't harder than the content in dawntrail. Suppose they take normal raids down to accommodate less talented players, and they make this new tier "Dawntrail difficulty", it will become the defacto difficulty, cause it's where the average of players are. The game itself will be telling people that they can only do lesser contents, and they don't deserve the same rewards as the average of the playerbase. I don't think anyone wants to hear that. An even better argument is that the difference in difficulty is so small, is it really worth it ? lol.
If they make it harder than dawntrail difficulty, dawntrail difficulty for the normal raids was perfect for me. I find myself in a gap again and I'm the one who has no engaging content... Again. Either I adjust up, or compromise down. :P

Though I do want more content that would help people bridge between extreme and experts, I don't think offering the same track again, but "nerfed" is the solution.

I also think you misunderstand the kind of player I am. I feel hardcore is a mischaracterization.
I feel am the true casual here, being casual has nothing to do with being good or bad at the game ?
Like, I don't care that much for the game (it's still my favorite game! I still care, but reasonably so), I let my sub lapse more often in endwalker because it just wasn't as interesting. I didn't even complain. :P
I feel like the player who cares to the point of feeling their experience is ruined by a slight change in pacing are way less casual than I am and way more involved in the game, even if it isn't "optimizing dps" and "clearing content".
Like, letting sub lapse and just playing something that's more interesting to them isn't even an option to them. I've only heard that once in all of these discussions.

I'd say these people that are in limsa 24/7, don't even close their client for sleep, make a tea parlor in their large house in shirogane, farm for glams/minions and nothing else, visit balmung quicksand, runs to player hosted events, have 529057230597 modded assets, and are really mediocre at clearing content are a million times less casual than I am. I'm using hyperbole to make a point here. :P

Also, paying for the game doesn't entitle you to the game being for you or you even liking it.
You could turn this against me for sure, but I never complained against the state of the game, I just don't play it when it doesn't work for me.
The devs just naturally gravitated towards a status quo that fits my needs better, and I'm here saying I like it, and I don't want it to change.
If the changes are truly abhorrent to you, nothing will send a louder message to square enix that just playing something else.
The question is, would there even be enough of these "louder messages" to even change things even if 100% of the people that disagree with dawntrail changes did so tomorrow ?
Only square enix knows, that's why I trust their choice. Pretty sure they have already considered the cost/benefit relationship of your solution. ;o

I am not targeting you in any way, shape or form in this post. When I say "you", I generally mean someone who disagree with the dawntrail pacing changes.

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Originally Posted by jdtuggey

a lot of words

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You are responding with far too much effort to a bait post.

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

You are responding with far too much effort to a bait post.

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I do tend to give too much credit to people, thanks for grounding me. :P

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Originally Posted by jdtuggey

why not defer to the people the game actually belongs to.

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I've paid for the game and played since 2019,

and you are saying the game does not belong to me?

Are you trying to harass or bully me out of this game? Wow.

Impressive attitude, impressive.

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

Thank you for reading this post, and I welcome feedback.

Here I propose a system satisfying both types of players.

For paid players, a casual mode for MSQ dungeons&trials is accessible.

For free-to-play ones, only the hard mode is available.

Thank you for you time, and feel free to ask! ♥

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This makes absolutely no sense to me.... Everyone playing beyond SB is forced to subscribe. So how exactly does this help in any way/shape/form? I'm a paying player who enjoys more difficult content, this doesn't seem to fix any issues that people who are complaining about the difficulty I enjoy are taking the time to write about. On the other hand, I don't want my difficulty lowered just because I pay my subscription. This seems like something that should be the other way around. Add an option to increase difficulty for those who choose to pay, and allow only normal/easy mode for those on the free trial.

or those casuals can learn to play the game at a basic level.

You don't need to be hardcore to be decent at the game.

most of the female hyurs I meet are offbeat and kooky like this, idk why
feels like it's on brand ;o

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Originally Posted by NovaStella

I've only seen

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Go and see more.

Inexperience is not an excuse of being a casual.

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Originally Posted by NightHour

or those casuals can learn to play the game at a basic level.

You don't need to be hardcore to be decent at the game.

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I agree.

So you, as a casual, go and learn "to be decent" "at a basic level".

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by jdtuggey

most of the female hyurs I meet are offbeat and kooky like this, idk why
feels like it's on brand ;o

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Thank you very much for your RACISM.

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Originally Posted by Kazeshindo

I don't want my difficulty lowered

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Go play savage and stop whining in my post.

Thank you very much. ♥

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

I've paid for the game and played since 2019,

and you are saying the game does not belong to me?

Are you trying to harass or bully me out of this game? Wow.

Impressive attitude, impressive.

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You do not own the game. You own a license to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

I fall asleep more in the new dungeons now.

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After 35 seconds of researching your character's accomplishments.....

*AHEM*.... Liar Liar...Pants ... On... Fire....

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Originally Posted by Banggugyangu

35 seconds of researching

...Pants...

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Impressive attention span and fetishism.

But that is fine, I am not judging.

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Originally Posted by Syrun

You do not own the game. You own a license to play the game.

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In fact, that is correct, but only on the paper.

Remember the hard times of ARR?

I wonder what would have happened,

Had Yoshi-p said "You do not own the game" to the players then.

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

I've paid for the game and played since 2019,

and you are saying the game does not belong to me?

Are you trying to harass or bully me out of this game? Wow.

Impressive attitude, impressive.

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NOPE, the game and ALL of it's assets belong to SE.

From the TOS you agreed to in order to play this game;
All aspects of the Game (including but not limited to the Game computer code, updates, patches, expansion packs, characters, character names, character data, virtual items, character profile information, (non-personal) account information, chat transcripts, artwork, plot, dialogue, locations, sounds and music) are owned by Square Enix or its licensors. You do not have any property rights in the service account you use to play the Game

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

I agree.

So you, as a casual, go and learn "to be decent" "at a basic level".

Thank you.

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I'm not a casual and I'm not hardcore either.

I'm clearing Savages and Ultimates.


I also parse pretty well in Savage.

I consider myself somewhat decent at the game.



Being "good", "decent" or "bad" at the game does not revolve around your commitment status to the game.

I know some giga casual players who are decent at the game, can play their jobs well and have good spatial awareness in content I do with them.



How good or bad someone is at the game depends solely on their willingness to learn and take criticism/feedback.

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

Thank you for reading this post, and I welcome feedback.

Here I propose a system satisfying both types of players.

For paid players, a casual mode for MSQ dungeons&trials is accessible.

For free-to-play ones, only the hard mode is available.

Thank you for you time, and feel free to ask! ♥

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What does someones trial or sub status have to do with content difficulty?

The reason casuals never improve at the game and make threads like this is because every time someone tries to give them tips or pointers they play the "stop being rude, you dont pay my sub" card.


You can be casual and have a good understanding of the game if you just show willingness to learn and take criticism and feedback.


And this is why we get nonsensical threads about "Content being too hard".



Nothing stops you from watching a 10 minute youtube video on how your job plays or how to do a raid fight.


The resources are there, you just need to be willing to improve.



Whether you're Casual, Midcore, Semi Hardcore or Hardcore is mainly about your commitment to the game from a time standpoint.

Normalize understanding that "casual" is time invested, not skill level.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

Normalize understanding that "casual" is time invested, not skill level.

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I know some casuals who are damn good at the game, just because someone raids savage it doesn't make them "hardcore".

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Originally Posted by NightHour

I know some casuals who are damn good at the game, just because someone raids savage it doesn't make them "hardcore".

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I agree with you.

A player can take up anywhere from 10 - 16 hours a day, face smashing Savage or Ultimate. Meanwhile, another player can take 2 - 3 hours a week doing the same content. Yes, the player investing the most time in that content will likely clear content first, but that doesn't mean that the casual will never progress. Both players can be really good at the game.

Like I said, it's all about time investment. You set the pace you want. Or don't, you don't have to play Savage or Ultimates to enjoy the game.

This is something OP, and anyone else complaining about difficulty, needs to understand about these terms in an MMO setting moving forward, whether they're trolling or not. It's okay to admit that the game's difficulty is not your cup of tea.

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But let me circle back onto why this proposal bothers me:

OP, you seem to have a very skewed understanding of difficulty. Like, what is a "hardcore casual???"

You also made the claim that you find dungeon crawling boring now, but say this does get implemented; Won't it make playing a lot worse for you? People tend to go through the path of least resistance. When it comes time for people to answer an old mechanic in a new dungeon and they repeatedly fail at it, won't it mean we're right back at square one?

Just because we pay a sub doesn't, and shouldn't, mean we're entitled to anything special, it's what you agreed upon making an account. They may give you rewards as a thank you for your patronage, but nothing else. This proposal reeks of entitlement. "I pay for my sub, so I should get much more ease into content." Lol no.

Compared to other MMOs, we're SPOILED as it is. I've been playing since 2.0, I've always appreciated the pace we're currently go at. We don't bother with too much RNG when it came to quest progression, the EXP is fine where we're at, and the difficulty from ARR to EW is fine, albeit a little bit lax.

And since playing 2.0, it's been normal for me to struggle at first. Struggling has been second nature for years and it's how I, and many others, learned new mechanics. Your reward for getting into current content is that you get to struggle along with us vets.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

Just because we pay a sub doesn't, and shouldn't, mean we're entitled to anything special, it's what you agreed upon making an account. They may give you rewards as a thank you for your patronage, but nothing else. This proposal reeks of entitlement. "I pay for my sub, so I should get much more ease into content." Lol no.

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Indeed.


I categorize players like this

Casual: Logs in after work, chills out in Limsa for an hour or 2, hardest content they do is probably normal and alliance raids. May dip their toes in harder content at their own pace via Party Finder.

Midcore: Does Savage and Ultimate, raids for 3-4 hours a day, 3-4 days a week. May do 5 day weeks on week 1.

Semi Hardcore: Raids more hours than Midcore but not quite as much as HC. Aims to clear the content on patch or in a very early week.

Hardcore: Raids 10+ hours a day, 7 days a week on content release to clear as fast as possible, spends a lot of time in game optimizing etc.

World Prog: Sweatiest of the bunch, logs in immediately on server up, does all their necessary raid prep many days/weeks in advance. Races to clear the content before anyone else.




Midcore is what I'd consider myself.



@OP - It's fine for a game to have activities that are outside of your skill level or the amount of time you can commit to the game.


If you're not good enough to do Savage, Ultimates or Criterion then that's fine. Paying a subscription does not entitle you to have access to content that's above your capabilities as a player.


Content for the more casual player base exists, stay in your own lane as they say.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

we're SPOILED as it is

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I am not spoiled for sure, but I am not going to judge your character like you did to me.

FYI, the "dungeons are boring so I almost fell asleep" was referring to Naoko Yoshida's own justification of increasing dungeon difficulty.

I have played a lot of MMORPGs in the past 20+ years, in which period I did and even lead multiple top tier raids in WoW and other games.

My old friends pulled me into this game, and I am witnessing something I deeply loved withering in Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by NightHour

I categorize players like this

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What you are describing is a hierarchy, where players become unpaid workers of SE, and worse, it is actually SE getting paid by the workers.

I have life and work, and do not have so much time as I did when I was just an undergraduate student, when I was doing and sometimes leading top tier raids in top teams in video games like WoW, BnS etc.

Learn some social etiquette and stop being so judgemental. As an adult, I think that the problem is not merely the difficulty, but the output-to-input ratio.

Those who need no external validation and do not want so much emotional manipulation or cognitive overload are not weak, but wise.

Read this again before spouting judgemental words to people you know nothing about.

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

I am not spoiled for sure, but I am not going to judge your character like you did to me.

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If you attach your character to an idea, then that's on you. You laid yourself bare on a public forum, expect criticism. All I've been doing is attack the idea, never you. That's how forums work. There's a difference between "I think you're stupid." and "I think your idea is stupid." It's true, I don't know you to say the former and it'd be unfair, but I don't have to know you to say the latter.

And yes, we're spoiled when it comes to MSQ.

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FYI, the "dungeons are boring so I almost fell asleep" was referring to Naoko Yoshida's own justification of increasing dungeon difficulty.

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But didn't you also say this over at Page 1:

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

Oh you think it's difficult? How unfortunate.

I fall asleep more in the new dungeons now.

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I see no mention anywhere of Yoshi P in that post. Hmm. How strange.

The point I was making was that if your idea did get implemented, we'd be back at square one anyway. You will continue to fall asleep in dungeons. You are asking for a pay to win scenario, which goes against the direction the game is going.

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I have played a lot of MMORPGs in the past 20+ years, in which period I did and even lead multiple top tier raids in WoW and other games.

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I also have played a lot of MMOs, and I still argue that this game is much more forgiving. We don't grind for hours to get anywhere like other MMOs.

Thanks for cherry picking, tho.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

"I think your idea is stupid."

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What are you AFRAID of?

What has triggered you so much?

I apologise for not adding a trigger warning in the title:

"Fanboys might get triggered and start yelling."

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Originally Posted by Katachthon

What are you AFRAID of?

What has triggered you so much?

I apologise for not adding a trigger warning in the title:

"Fanboys might get triggered and start yelling."

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I have to laugh at this.

Thanks for playing.