I played the Throne & Liberty beta last week and..

.. despite not even having a distinct trinity system in place, healing in that game is engaging, unpredictable and fun.

Take notes CBU3, take notes.

Is it also a giant cash grab with $200 pre-order packs and will be dead in 6 months or?

We must have played different games. Last thing I would want as a healer, is only two healing spells, one on a 10 second cooldown and the AoE one on a 40+ second cooldown, if running Wand and Tomb weapons. Even if go Bow and Wand, to get the regeneration, ya....

Def not what I'd want in FFXIV, nor would others want that, since not an action RPG.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Is it also a giant cash grab with $200 pre-order packs and will be dead in 6 months or?

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1. Early Access Packs
2. Custom currency Lucene
3. Everyone plays generic human with the option to shapeshift a bit
4. Focus lies on massive world and guild combat, and guild PvP


so yeah, will be dead in 6 months because they won't be able to balance this for the more chill players, the lifeblood of any game.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

1. Early Access Packs
2. Custom currency Lucene
3. Everyone plays generic human with the option to shapeshift a bit
4. Focus lies on massive world and guild combat, and guild PvP


so yeah, will be dead in 6 months because they won't be able to balance this for the more chill players, the lifeblood of any game.

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Early access packs in an mmo are a sign of death to me. Won't touch it. I remember when this forum was all a buzz about arch age, then BDO....

Arch age is dead and BDO is well... I don't think anyone talks about it anymore.
Same with new world....

pretty much.
It would be nice if these games tried to add something new and innovative to the mix, but from going over their website, there was literally nothing that caught my attention.

Remember this is NCSOFT we're talking about, and they actually do know how to make content or classes enganging. Problem is, it's a Korean MMORPG, meaning it's going to be pay 2 win from the start.

The Auction House (Marketboard) is completely reliant on a currency called Lucent. You can only get this currency by using your wallet, or doing PvP castle sieges at max level. The game is entirely focused on guild wars, meaning the top guild will hold all castles at one point and you won't be able to get stuff done because those don't accept weak players. There's also other methods to farming it in game that I've found here.

The streamer Kanon has been advocating for the game to be less p2w in the West, but we know it's very unlikely to be so. He even attended one of the dev meetups and told them what Western audience already thinks about it: p2w garbage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go06gADja_Q

People will play it because the market desperately needs another MMORPGs to compete with the "Big 5". Game might not last long in the West because of the entire Lucent system.

I've playered a few KR MMOs before and I really don't enjoy "going to work", or obsessive PvP. At least Final Fantasy allows me to chill when I want to.

But I do agree healing in FF feels off. It's boringly scripted. Well, everyone is scripted.

Yes take notes from a game that plays completely differently from the tab-target MMO that is FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Is it also a giant cash grab with $200 pre-order packs and will be dead in 6 months or?

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6 months, you're feeling generous. I played the open beta, the combat was garbage, melee was clunky and un responsive animations didn't flow smoothly, add in the cash show and p2w I don't think it will make 3m.

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Originally Posted by AddictedToWitches

Yes take notes from a game that plays completely differently from the tab-target MMO that is FFXIV

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Tbf it is also a tab target game, they just added an action cam that alot of games have done now days. What amazes me is that this is the company that gave us GW2 many many years ago and somehow managed to deliver a combat system of the same vein but infinitely worse than the one they delivered in GW2

Assuming this isn't a troll post, it's not very hard to beat FFXIV's healer gameplay for most MMO.

Also, if that game is an aRPG, what business does it have being an inspiration for FFXIV? Totally different gameplays.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

We must have played different games. Last thing I would want as a healer, is only two healing spells, one on a 10 second cooldown and the AoE one on a 40+ second cooldown, if running Wand and Tomb weapons. Even if go Bow and Wand, to get the regeneration, ya....

Def not what I'd want in FFXIV, nor would others want that, since not an action RPG.

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Yep, I wouldnt even call it a healer with how long those cooldowns take. With a good group it isnt bad, but when you have people that dont understand the mechanics or know how to block it makes healing a nightmare.

NCsoft AND Amazon games? LOL run fast and far, as fast and far as you can.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Remember this is NCSOFT we're talking about, and they actually do know how to make content or classes enganging. Problem is, it's a Korean MMORPG, meaning it's going to be pay 2 win from the start.

The Auction House (Marketboard) is completely reliant on a currency called Lucent. You can only get this currency by using your wallet, or doing PvP castle sieges at max level. The game is entirely focused on guild wars, meaning the top guild will hold all castles at one point and you won't be able to get stuff done because those don't accept weak players. There's also other methods to farming it in game that I've found here.

The streamer Kanon has been advocating for the game to be less p2w in the West, but we know it's very unlikely to be so. He even attended one of the dev meetups and told them what Western audience already thinks about it: p2w garbage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go06gADja_Q

People will play it because the market desperately needs another MMORPGs to compete with the "Big 5". Game might not last long in the West because of the entire Lucent system.

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i'm surprised NCsoft still a thing. it has been ages and their games never age well

From the game play section of their website:

"THRONE AND LIBERTY features a class-free system where your weapons decide your role. Combine and configure two different weapons to maximize strength, defense, and damage." (but not healing?)

Out of the weapon options, only the "wand and tome" offer any sort of healing ability "Leverage curses to deal damage, weaken enemies over time, and heal allies in battle." (healing is the least important?)

All in all, sounds like healing is less than an afterthought in the game. I'll pass and stay here.

I saw the title and thought "Is this an MMO that takes place in colonial times? That could be fun."

Then I watched the gameplay footage and saw it's just another generic NCSoft game.

If you wanna leave XIV for this, have fun, but I hope to hell the game has good solo options for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Tbf it is also a tab target game, they just added an action cam that alot of games have done now days. What amazes me is that this is the company that gave us GW2 many many years ago and somehow managed to deliver a combat system of the same vein but infinitely worse than the one they delivered in GW2

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Even more egregious to me is NCsoft apparently won their lawsuit with Bluehole studios over TERA and thus have access to TERA's combat system (which had actual action combat and actual healers in said action combat) and are doing nothing with it even though TERA "stole" it from a Lineage game NCsoft was working on.

I played LOTRO yesterday and would much more want a Minstrel Healer and Warden (Hoplite, spear and shield) tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Remember this is NCSOFT we're talking about, and they actually do know how to make content or classes enganging. Problem is, it's a Korean MMORPG, meaning it's going to be pay 2 win from the start.

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It's also NCSoft, so they're going to just kill it if it isn't as profitable as their main cash cow, Lineage 2, within 6 months. Look at their track record with:
City of Heroes/Villains
WildStar
Auto Assault
Dungeon Runners
Tabula Rasa
Exteel
Point Blank
Master X Master
FUSER


And how they dealt with Richard Garriott, who sued them -- and won -- for forging his resignation announcement, and was awarded $32M in damages for it.

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Throne and Liberty is an upcoming massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) developed and to be published in South Korea by NCSoft. It is to be published in North America, South America, Europe, and Japan by Amazon Games.

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https://media.tenor.com/oogDhgo0PqEA...baybeemaka.gif

No red flags at all there.

New World is coming out for consoles.

Nah.
Look at wow instead, imo ff14 has way better tank/dps design, but they absolutely need to look at how wow does its healers because clearly the team has no idea

Ah yes, lets learn from a game that isn't going to last long.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Nah.
Look at wow instead, imo ff14 has way better tank/dps design, but they absolutely need to look at how wow does its healers because clearly the team has no idea

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I have literally never heard anyone praise XIV's tanks and DPS design over WoW's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malthir

What amazes me is that this is the company that gave us GW2 many many years ago and somehow managed to deliver a combat system of the same vein but infinitely worse than the one they delivered in GW2

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NCSoft is just the parent company of the one that made guild wars. Arena Net made guild wars, not ncsoft.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Nah.
Look at wow instead, imo ff14 has way better tank/dps design, but they absolutely need to look at how wow does its healers because clearly the team has no idea

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While I disagree on the tank thing (FF14 doesn't have something as cool as a DH tank, I do prefer FF14 dps jobs though), they definitely do healing better over there. They also just nerfed tank self sustain across the board for War Within so that healing feels more impactful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

I have literally never heard anyone praise XIV's tanks and DPS design over WoW's.

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I enjoy XIV's tanks and DPS design over WoWs. One more "literally" you won't be able to say :(

The games really are different beasts entirely.

Throne and Liberty is more PvP focused and revolves around that typical 'slot machine' upgrade cycle like Black Desert Online.

I honestly wouldn't even attempt to compare them.

The most impressive thing Throne and Liberty has done since I last saw the beta was how many players can be on your screen without the game turning into a Power Point Presentation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

I have literally never heard anyone praise XIV's tanks and DPS design over WoW's.

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Thats just my opinion. I'd say dps is more or less even between the 2 but i despise wows tank design compared to ff14, way more fun to tank here.

I do think ff14 could benefit greatly from looking at how wow differentiates classes though for job identity, especially healers.

This thread was not meant to be serious, though T&L is pretty fun! Well for the first few months anyway. There is a reason I played XIV for nearly 11 years and will continue checking out future expansions.

As far as NCSoft goes, old Aion was pretty cool back in the day. Even on the healing front, both Cleric and Chanter (and later Bard) had some very nice build variety - both offensive and supportive.

From a pure gameplay perspective though, TERA was sick. Nothing comes close, it is that what Bluehole did to that game only to shut it down last year or so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Venarius

This thread was not meant to be serious, though T&L is pretty fun! Well for the first few months anyway. There is a reason I played XIV for nearly 11 years and will continue checking out future expansions.

As far as NCSoft goes, old Aion was pretty cool back in the day. Even on the healing front, both Cleric and Chanter (and later Bard) had some very nice build variety - both offensive and supportive.

From a pure gameplay perspective though, TERA was sick. Nothing comes close, it is that what Bluehole did to that game only to shut it down last year or so.

---

Cleric and chanter are light years ahead of any healer in this game, aside from the animations, I will grant FFXIV has superior animations for healers. Aside from that- Aion, with only 2 options, beats a game with 4 options.

While bard was technically a third option , and did have an extremely important role in at least one instance that I can recall, I would say that at least 90% of players remained in DPS spec- but it was an extremely well designed class and fun in either spec.

I would rather they take ideas from ff11 instead of a Korean grindfest mmo thats pay to win when it comes to class design. I would prefer ff11 class design over the throne liberty game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Venarius

This thread was not meant to be serious, though T&L is pretty fun! Well for the first few months anyway. There is a reason I played XIV for nearly 11 years and will continue checking out future expansions.

As far as NCSoft goes, old Aion was pretty cool back in the day. Even on the healing front, both Cleric and Chanter (and later Bard) had some very nice build variety - both offensive and supportive.

From a pure gameplay perspective though, TERA was sick. Nothing comes close, it is that what Bluehole did to that game only to shut it down last year or so.

---

TERA shut down directly because of NCsoft winning their lawsuit against Bluehole. While bluehole mismanaged it, it would still likely be up and going if NCsoft didn't win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

I have literally never heard anyone praise XIV's tanks and DPS design over WoW's.

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Having played WoW since Wrath and FFXIV since the last closed beta for ARR tanking is way better in this game than in WoW healing as well is much better, don't need to download an add just to heal a normal dungeon.

DPS on the other hand is a toss up, sometimes I feel WoW does it better then sometimes I feel FFXIV is better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Cleric and chanter are light years ahead of any healer in this game, aside from the animations, I will grant FFXIV has superior animations for healers. Aside from that- Aion, with only 2 options, beats a game with 4 options.

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Sometimes simpler is better. There's always going to be some trade-off.

Is the combat game play really better off now with 4 tanks, 4 healers and 13 DPS compared to when it was just 2 tanks, 2 healers and 5 DPS? Was the demand for more job choices worth it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skyclaw726

Having played WoW since Wrath and FFXIV since the last closed beta for ARR tanking is way better in this game than in WoW healing as well is much better, don't need to download an add just to heal a normal dungeon.

DPS on the other hand is a toss up, sometimes I feel WoW does it better then sometimes I feel FFXIV is better.

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I liked the general concept of the RIFT class system though I think they made it too complex in the long run.

Have a base class to fill a role then let the player customize it as they like. You give up any pretense of balance among the customization options but it can make each role clearly defined compared to the muddled definitions we now see in FFXIV roles.

It's the new shiny and won't last a year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Venarius

This thread was not meant to be serious, though T&L is pretty fun! Well for the first few months anyway. There is a reason I played XIV for nearly 11 years and will continue checking out future expansions.

As far as NCSoft goes, old Aion was pretty cool back in the day. Even on the healing front, both Cleric and Chanter (and later Bard) had some very nice build variety - both offensive and supportive.

From a pure gameplay perspective though, TERA was sick. Nothing comes close, it is that what Bluehole did to that game only to shut it down last year or so.

---

Aion was my first mmo healing experience, it spoiled me! I had so much fun healing there, changing stigmas for dps or full healer, I just felt more…impactful there as a cleric. I would check out throne and liberty but I don’t want to put effort into it since they ruined Aion, and other things of course. Man why do companies have to be to so greedy…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ketojan

Aion was my first mmo healing experience, it spoiled me! I had so much fun healing there, changing stigmas for dps or full healer, I just felt more…impactful there as a cleric. I would check out throne and liberty but I don’t want to put effort into it since they ruined Aion, and other things of course. Man why do companies have to be to so greedy…

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Aion had the best healing classes by far, and it definitely spoiled me as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

TERA shut down directly because of NCsoft winning their lawsuit against Bluehole. While bluehole mismanaged it, it would still likely be up and going if NCsoft didn't win.

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Pretty sure TERA died due to how EnMasse mismanaged the whole DPS meters situation, where they would outright ban any person creating it and anybody talking about it, in-game, forums or on social media. Then they collapsed on themselves, sold it to Gameforge but it wasn't enough to maintain the game since all players moved on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Venarius

.. despite not even having a distinct trinity system in place, healing in that game is engaging, unpredictable and fun.

Take notes CBU3, take notes.

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It was surprisingly fun for a F2P MMO and I'll probably visit it again in the future when it's actually released, but I'm not a big fan of micro transactions. I'd rather pay a flat fee instead to have access to most of the game, but if it continues to be as fun as it is I'd be willing to overlook the MTX aspect.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Pretty sure TERA died due to how EnMasse mismanaged the whole DPS meters situation, where they would outright ban any person creating it and anybody talking about it, in-game, forums or on social media. Then they collapsed on themselves, sold it to Gameforge but it wasn't enough to maintain the game since all players moved on.

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EnMasse was only for NA and they were replaced by Gameforge, who despite reputation, was running TERA much better than EnMasse did and it continued. Gameforge wanted to continue hosting it but had to respect Bluehole decision to shut it down. While Bluehole never stated a reason, it is suspected that the Lawsuit with NCsoft and failure of other projects (other than PUBG) had basically left them unable to afford to continue support.