Just needed to vent with how frustrated I was leveling scholar from 90-100 as someone that dumped it to play SGE all through EW high-end content and for grinding 99 EX2 totems in Dawntrail.
Things I like about SCH in DT:
- Seraphism gives you instant cast healing. very nice,
- Because ED didnt get any damage increase and Broil did, it makes up a bit less than an GCD worth of potency every time you burn 3 aetherflow on something else so you can completely ignore ED and only loose like 10-12 Broil IV's worth of potency
All the questions I have for whoever is responsible for this sorry state of a job compared to SGE:
- Why does dissipation remove half of your healing kit for 30 seconds on a 3 minute cooldown?
- Why cant dissipation be turned off??
- Why doesnt dissipation give mana in light of mana regen being removed from ED and moved to Aetherflow?
- Why doesnt scholar have any neutral/higher dps instant cast to make their opener and using all 6 energy drains less messy?
- Can we go back to Fey Blessing costing Faerie gauge and either having a 30 second cooldown, or no cooldown?
- Why didnt Ruin II get an upgrade?
- Why is there still a massive delay between faerie abilities?
- Why do faerie abilities even contribute to your GCD when using the "place" command doesn't?
- Why doesn't the faerie go back to its place after using dissipation?
- Why doesn't excog either have a shield or damage mit 38 levels later when Taurochole is only 100 less healing potency and has a mit applied to it?
- Why is the only way that scholar can increase healing from all healing actions the single target Protraction when SGE gets it from Physis II?
- Why is Fey Illumination only 5% mit and 10% increase potency healing when Holos having 5% more mit than it and a 300 potency shield is infinitely better?
I just want SCH to be a better job.
Scholar Sucks
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07-21-2024, 11:26 AMRaionKansenScholar Sucks
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07-21-2024, 12:16 PMJeeqbitConsequences to make you think about whether it's wise to use it, or to plan ahead cooldowns to use before it. It at least gives Scholar something to think about other than spamming Broil.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaionKansen
I'm sure it could; the question is if it's needed.Quote:
Why doesnt dissipation give mana in light of mana regen being removed from ED and moved to Aetherflow?
They made them cast faster. But what you most likely notice from instant casts in this game is that they still tend to have global cooldown times in many cases.Quote:
Why is there still a massive delay between faerie abilities?
They aren't GCDs so I assume you mean they contribute to an OGCD slot. One is a player ability that commands the pet to use their version of the ability, and another is directly a pet ability. It used to be the case that they were all directly pet abilities, but a lot of people ignored their pet hotbar, so SE tried to make them "feel" like a formal part of Scholar's kit by being in the player's Actions & Traits window.Quote:
Why do faerie abilities even contribute to your GCD when using the "place" command doesn't?
Because while Scholar has a pet do auto-healing, one of Sage's main forms of healing is from Kardia (which amounts to mostly the same thing in practice). However, it is rather logical to buff Kardia instead of certain features Scholar has to make it slightly unique since Kardia is the "unique" thing about Sage.Quote:
Why is the only way that scholar can increase healing from all healing actions the single target Protraction when SGE gets it from Physis II?
It's also worth pointing out that Scholar has Recitation, Dissipation and Fey Illumination for healing buffs as well.
True but honestly whenever I've added all the potencies up across healers in previous expansions, it's worked out roughly the same in practice, so I assume they see it as balanced somewhere. Eos can shift target automatically while Kardia is more of a manual process for example.Quote:
Why is Fey Illumination only 5% mit and 10% increase potency healing when Holos having 5% more mit than itand a 300 potency shield is infinitely better?
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07-21-2024, 01:06 PMSupersnow845
SCH is just a job that has higher highs and lower lows than SGE you just have to understand how it works
1) dissipation locks out the fairie kit because it offers two massive bonuses- a full set of aetherflow and a massive 20% GCD amplifier, SGE’s equivalent is on a 90 second CD and only offers one addersgall, dissipation is designed to be worked around when optimised or used as an oh shit I need resources button and no other healer can recover that many resources
2) because turning it off removes it downsides which are there to balance the skill
3)a fair question, I’d rather have mana on energy drain than aetherflow but SCH’s mana economy isn’t weak
4) that’s why they increased the length of chain
5) blessing needs a CD but id be happy for it to have a shorter CD if it cost gauge, the only thing to consider is adding other spenders to the fairie gauge does make the opportunity cost of fey union way too high to ever actually use
6) ruin 2 is supposed to be a loss, now its a 85 potency loss but if you reduced it back to 70 it’s use wouldn’t change
7) this is something I don’t really notice except for seraph, you just have to not bunch up fairie abilities
8) a totally fair question, it used to have its own GCD but that was kinda messy
9) please make this change
10) because excog is a reactive heal, it really doesn’t need anything else attached
11) because SCH has recitation as an equivalent action healing up and dominates in GCD amplification which leans into spreadlo which is why it dominates on mitigation
12) because SCH’s equivalent to holos is expedient, get illumination is a free extra skill that SCH has and why it’s a better mitigator than SGE -
07-21-2024, 01:06 PMRaionKansenIt still causes you to clip your GCD if not used correctly. That is what I meantQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
You can use summon commands like Place for your faerie at anytime. it does not affect your GCD or cause any clipping -
07-21-2024, 01:16 PMBellybell
Because it's mainly old ARR design and dev don't know how to manage it in modern era
I'm still pissed that SCH need to use FeyIllu+something else to actually (try to)compete with SGE's Holos 1 button, and many more issues -
07-21-2024, 01:35 PMSupersnow845Holos was buffed to compensate for how strong spreadlo is compared to Zoe e prog, spreadlo is almost 3 times as strong as Zoe e prog when you factor in buffsQuote:
Originally Posted by Bellybell
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07-21-2024, 01:42 PMRaionKansenIs there a note from the dev team saying that was their reasoning? I feel like if that was the case, they could have just buffed Zoe or given it a specific interaction with e.progQuote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
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07-21-2024, 01:49 PMSupersnow845It was a response to SGE getting locked out of DSR prog parties because SCH’s mitigations were so much better. Specifically spreadloQuote:
Originally Posted by RaionKansen
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07-21-2024, 02:27 PMKyanari
I stopped doing EX trials or attempt doing hard content but even on dungeons, I decided to forget using Dissipation for this reason. I still can't understand why HP gain on every ED rather than MP. I miss SB Aetherflow.
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07-21-2024, 10:26 PMRaionKansenFirst of all of I'm taking your response with a very small grain of salt because of your signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
I liked scholar basically until Holos was buffed and I started playing sage. There's really no reason to play it at this point. I'm very aware how it works and I hate how much you have to operate at a potency loss more often to be an effective healer in high end content where mitigation is important
Dissipation would be a much better ability if it was 10s long on a 60s CD vs 30s every 180s that you can't turn off.
The skill has aged horribly with how the game plays today.
You basically have to gcd heal at a potency loss for 30s if your aetherflow abilities can't cover the healing. Something no other healer in the game is punished with.
Ruin II shouldn't always be a loss when scholar gets nothing out of his healing and sage does. At least make the DoT or something have a proc change to upgrade Ruin II so that it's neutral with Broil IV
Excog is hasn't been great for a long time. High end content is so dependent on having party mitigation going and everyone being topped up. Taurochole is going to save someone more times than Excog ever will in the current state of the game unless you have any issues with a tank dying to autos after a buster.
I would not say scholar dominates in mitigation by any degree because it has to spend more gcds to operate all of it at a potency loss where sage doesn't. -
07-21-2024, 10:33 PMSelvokaz
Shield healing sounds like it bites more than it used to back in heavensward and maybe stormblood, but its been years since I touched Scholar on a high skill level, and it sounds like you have to do way to much mental gymnastic to play it effectively from what I'm reading in this thread, and presumably so does Sage.
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07-21-2024, 10:44 PMCaptainLagbeard
I think SCH is still the best designed Healer of the ones currently in the game, like there's not really anything missing from their healer kit and they even have Expedient over others... But they maybe use some buffs and like all the healers more offensive options.
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07-21-2024, 10:55 PMSupersnow845Dissipation is how it is because it’s the only one of the 4 healers that can generate its full gauge back instantly, that’s why the skill has drawbacks. Because it’s so powerful, the fact it also buffs adlo is just the cherry on top. You need to plan around it, if you used dissipation with your fairy abilities ready to go then run out of aetherflow abilities that’s entirely your fault not the skillQuote:
Originally Posted by RaionKansen
Ruin 2 is a movement ability, that’s all there really is to it, it should be a loss because it can be freely cast
Single target healing in general in this game is bad, I’m not really going to compare those two because the benefits each offers is relatively redundant, the 10% mitigation on SCH comes from protraction
SCH has 3 free mitigations and spreadlo dwarfs anything SGE can put out, that’s just a fact -
07-21-2024, 10:58 PMConnorI’m confused by this statement. Do you mean gcd healing causes dps potency loss, or that Scholars put out less healing when using gcds? The latter is only true if you don’t know Emergency Tactics and Recitation existsQuote:
Originally Posted by RaionKansen
I don’t see any reason for them not to do something with Ruin II. At the same time though I think that’s kinda defeating the purpose. Isn’t the whole point of Sage that it’s healing and dps are both interlinked and ‘feed into each other’? I imagine they don’t want to have that same identity for Scholar too (considering they already pretend it isn’t present on WHM lol). For Scholar though people always say the enjoy the fact it has potential ‘losses’ because it means having to weigh up the tactical value of the skills. If they were entirely lossless that aspect of the job would be gone in many people’s eyes. To clarify, I wouldn’t really care either way if Ruin II was or wasn’t a loss. At the very least they could give it a visual upgrade along with Energy Drain, I don’t want to use ugly pre-level-50 skills lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaionKansen
Isn’t this comparing apples and oranges? If anything I’d compare Taurochole more to Protraction. Max HP increases provide effective mitigation through the extra health, and it restores the HP difference which isn’t an insignificant amount (it’s not amazing lol but not bad). And there’s the fact it buffs not only gcd shields, but any personal healing the tank is providing. I only do normal raids, but I use Excogitation to heal dps that have been clipped by AoEs (provided they’re below 50% ofc) much more frequently than I do on tank busters, since it gets them closer to a safe HP level than just throwing Lustrate at themQuote:
Originally Posted by RaionKansen
*Laughs in Seraphism*Quote:
Originally Posted by RaionKansen
Lastly (couldnt get the quote for it lol) I feel like all of the fairy skills can’t really be compared to anything in the other healers’ toolkits and that’s why they’re balanced the way they are. Plus, there’s the undeniable advantage that the Scholar can apply Fey Illumination etc to the party regardless of their actual position because of movement. Obviously, that’s not as simple as they make out, but for the devs I do think they believe this is a ‘real advantage’ the Scholar has over Sage, though the truth of that is debateable.