Is 2.0 doomed?

I apologize if the title of this thread is a bit misleading. From what I have seen so far, 2.0 looks amazing. But at the same time, the dev team seems to be making the same mistakes that have been made for the past 10 years. The following is a neuroscience based approach to leading this game to success (I'll avoid using complicated terms). The arguments here are based on behavioural sciences (neuroscience, psych, economics, etc)

Step 1: A Community Approach
FFXI did an amazing job in creating a community. But FFXIV seems to be dropping the ball. Community is a HUGE neurological incentive for people to continue to play and pay. If you have friends in a game, you are a lot less likely to stop playing or to quit the game, solely based on your social connections.

So how can SE use this to their advantage?

They can PROMOTE FRIENDSHIPS!

How?

First:Create A Mentor Program
Have a way for experienced players to tutor, help, and become friends with new players.

Second: Implement Level Sync
This should be a priority. Level sync will allow players to join up with each other regardless of level. This allows friendships to be created, and fun to be had.

Third: Have an achievement system with two tiers.
Tier 1 is for new players. As they level up, the achievement system should promote exploring the world and fighting different things (while being a certain level). The reward should be the best gear in one slot in the entire game at different levels. This will also act as an incentive to not abuse the level sync feature.

Tier 2 is for experienced players. This would promote teaming up with new players to get enhanced versions of the same achievement. Rather than reward equipment, this should award a certain type of "helper currency" which when accumulated will allow the player to purchase some of the best gear endgame in a certain slot.

Lets use an example:

Achievement: Gone Banana's Tier 1: Kill 100 Gridanian opo-opo's while you are between lvl 5 - 15.
Reward: 100 blue achievement points

Achievement 2: Gone Banana's Tier 2: Unlockable with 1 job at level 50 - kill 1000 Gridanian opo-opo's while you are between lvl 5 - 15.
Reward: 3000 blue achievement points

Items attainable with blue achievement points (you get the item when you hit the level of points):
Best level 10 helmet: 200 points
Best level 20 helmet: 1500 points
Best level 30 helmet: 5000 points
Best helm for para resist which is best helm for 2 end game bosses: 200,000 points

So what does this system actually do?
This system allows new players to work towards a goal, by experiencing more of what the game has to offer. It also creates an incentive for experienced players to become a mentor and help newer players. Level sync makes this possible even for those with all jobs leveled.
As a result: new players feel less alone in the game, especially if they don`t join at launch. It allows new and old people to form long-term relationships what will be an incentive to continue playing. It creates an incentive to keep playing because you know that in a few achievements more and you will get that really hardcore looking helmet. And it promotes experiencing the game and exploring as opposed to the current "grind as fast as you can to 50" mentality.

Step 2: Separate solo from group

All individuals should be able to play and enjoy the game without ever doing end-game or group content.

Why? Because it will prevent people who suddenly get busy with school or work from quitting, and increase the amount of people who play and pay.

FFXIV already has a system that will allow this to easily occur. Classes can be turned into solo-specific. Meaning that in most solo situations (leves, future ffxi-esque campaigns, behests, solo nms, etc) using a class should give a huge advantage.

There should be relic weapons specifically for classes, designed for solo only. And these relic weapons should be attainable solo (mind you with hours and hours of grinding)

Also, most achievements that get you good end-game-group-gear (ex. a resist paralyze helmet that is the best for 2 major end game boss fights) should be easiest done while solo

That isn't to say group should be ignored. I'm just saying, a lot of people leave FFXI and FFXIV because they feel they don't have time for it or because they don't want to grind endgame. There should be plenty of content for these people to do while they are in their busy phase, to prevent them from leaving the game and maybe going to a more casual and solo-friendly game.

Step 3: Eliminate Luck from -most- End-Game content

Rather than repetitive grinding end-game, events should have a longer cool-down period and give currency instead of items.

A longer cool down will help linkshells avoid spamming content, which at the moment creates a serious issue. If everyone spams content and gets all the gear within a month, they have little reason to do it again. They get bored and demand more content. However, if people are limited to doing something once or twice a week, it will take a lot longer for them to get the gear (meaning the content will last longer) and it will get linkshells to do more things, meaning the game will seem less boring.

However there should be one stipulation: Timer doesn't get reset until you WIN. meaning if you lose a dungeon you can go right back into it.

Having currency drop instead of random items would be a massive benefit to any mmo. From a neurological perspective, there is usually heightened emotion right before a desire is to be fulfilled (opening a chest with random items) and then if that desire is unfulfilled there is serious disappointment. This can be demonstrated with a lot of book-to-movies where people get all hyped up that their favourite book is now a movie, realize how much the movie sucks, and spend an hour to write a horrible review on imdb about how the movie didn't meet their expectations.

By having a currency system in place of random items you do the following:
-Prevent people giving up or quitting due to continued disappointment
-Reduce linkshell drama and individual strife, as everyone gets the same amount of currency, and there are no fights over who gets what gear
-Create a neurological incentive to keep playing. When you can feel you are advancing to a goal, your brain is less likely to stop you from reaching that goal. You also look forward to reaching that goal, and will enjoy doing the dungeon that gets you the second last 10 currency you need.
-Balance out the player base. There is no reason why one person should be super elite, while others in their LS play just as much and just as well but aren't. This systems lets everyone know "if you play and do this you will have a chance to get the elite gear," which can be a huge factor in player retention and willingness to do certain things.

If 2.0 continues the XIV tradition of "do this dungeon 500 times as speed runs to get gear" or "kill moogles 200 times and never get the drop you want" I can't see the game going far. If casuals are ignored, and new players feel left out, the game will probably lose new members fast.

Friendships and Incentives are what will keep individuals playing and paying for this game. And while I respect SE for redesigning an entire game, sometimes it is the simple things that make all the differences. This game has proven that lots of quests and all the prettiest graphics in the world are not what most players are interested in.

I really hope SE doesn't make the same mistake again.

aside the total assuming topic :

1)this should promote friendship, or achievment point farm ? Also, achievment point are, and should remain pointless. If you farm it, they need a purpose, and better they don't

2)the system we have now it's already like that. Classes more feasible for solo, jobs for party. Sure some jobs can solo well, as classes still have some usefulles in party (but very low), but the actual system already work that way.
for classes, they have already class-specific weapons and armor, and they'll get AF too in the future, so you're point it's null.
For smaller events, i'm not pro or cons.

3)this is beated to dead since forever. In some events we got better loot systems, and they said 2.0 will have need/greed system like any standard mmorpg. Also remember events we have now it's just to keep up busy, and they work REALLY bad with long cooldown. Leave it for crystal tower please

some 4 man content would be fantastic too, I mean I do and enjoy 8 man content, but I have close friends who can't do it with me and when we see Skirmish saying "For 4-8 players 45+" and we try it with 4 level 50 players, it's misleading and annoying, and very discouraging for them to keep playing

A long cooldown is not good either. It makes schedules rigid and prevents PUGging.
Think Dynamis in FFXI and how many LS leaders went emo when their members ran an event with another LS.

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Originally Posted by tymora

A long cooldown is not good either. It makes schedules rigid and prevents PUGging.
Think Dynamis in FFXI and how many LS leaders went emo when their members ran an event with another LS.

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See this is double-edged because you not only ended up actually communicating and working with your entire server, the "emoness" was non-existent in major linkshells. When you were in an EG shell you were only in one generally, the "emoness" was more people trying to double dip in shells (outside of dynamis).

Cooldowns are good, even WoW has em.

The only problem with that achievement example given, is that if you level all DoW/M passed the lvled range you no longer will be able to unlock it. Other than that most of those ideas are pretty good. Im anxious to see the core changes of loot in 2.0. Fortunately I got my skirmish axe already! I'm stocked!

Putting everything under instance access and unendingly repeatable ends up with the situation we have today with the majority of people rushing through the content and then the people who lag behind being utterly stuck due to lack of people doing content.

Hell they don't even give much incentive for someone to do a fight/mission after it's complete add a 1-2k seal bonus for re-running content once every day or so and you got alot of people more willing to help others because they are actually getting something worthwhile.

Skirmish is content doomed to fail due to the developers allready stating that it is ONLY for the weapons, so what happens when everyone has them? The content is abondoned due to there being no real lasting reward or satisfaction or even goal to reach.

SE is great at churning out content but for some reason they don't seem interested in giving people any sort of incentive to help others outside of gear. Once the gear is farmed and gone so are the players it seems.

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Originally Posted by tymora

A long cooldown is not good either. It makes schedules rigid and prevents PUGging.
Think Dynamis in FFXI and how many LS leaders went emo when their members ran an event with another LS.

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Makes sense. So they could have like 1 day or 2 day cooldown, just so no one spends a night grinding the same dungeon 15 times.

And 4-man content makes perfect sense and would be an incredibly beneficial addition to the game.

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Originally Posted by Talus

The only problem with that achievement example given, is that if you level all DoW/M passed the lvled range you no longer will be able to unlock it. Other than that most of those ideas are pretty good. Im anxious to see the core changes of loot in 2.0. Fortunately I got my skirmish axe already! I'm stocked!

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This can be solved easily by allowing people to leve sync to any level solo. This would also let solo players challenge themselves and re-experience parts of the game as they are intended if they ever want to.

Great post, OP! I am really looking forward to 2.0, but I have similar concerns.

Sure, I love getting in a full group and doing stuff 1-2 nights a week. But honestly, really difficult battles (I'll admit it, I am not a highly skilled player; I know I'm not the only one out there!) are not the highlight of my gaming experience but rather something I find fun in limited amounts.

And thanks to my classes a lot of my playtime is off-peak hours, when I am subject to interruptions, so I want something to do by myself besides level yet another battle class or grind crafting/gathering. If you can't so much as tie your shoes in 2.0 without a well-coordinated group of 8, no amount of Miqo'te cuteness will be able to keep me playing! :(

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

Step 2: Separate solo from group

All individuals should be able to play and enjoy the game without ever doing end-game or group content.

Why? Because it will prevent people who suddenly get busy with school or work from quitting, and increase the amount of people who play and pay.

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I especially liked this part.

if people dont wanna play there not, nothing SE can do will change peoples minds.

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Originally Posted by indira

if people dont wanna play there not, nothing SE can do will change peoples minds.

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While i understand and respect your point of view, the person posting immediately before you seems to show that your statement is incorrect, as they would be willing to play if there was stuff to do outside of a group, and unwilling to play if everything requires a group.

Further, if your statement is true then why even change the game? If SE can't make people want to play a game what is the point of spending millions of dollars to try and do just that?

I remember reading about a mentor system in one of the 2.0 interviews.

I like longer cooldown with higher droprate, but whats gonna happen is the safest route to defeat the content will be used to an extreme. Dont expect melee to clear content first day yada yada, or even expect a PUG shout for them. There is no more testing stuff for fun because of the valuable timer, everyone want to win and they will go with a way that will win.

It will also increase elitism bc ppl wil not want gimps that might cause them a loss, ppl dont even want them now, what will happen when we have longer cooldown? We start looking at LF>BLM with int 400 only.

Encouraging class stacking and elitism ftw brah.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

First:Create A Mentor Program
Have a way for experienced players to tutor, help, and become friends with new players.

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Did you know 2.0 has a mentoring system?

Yeah the level sync would have to accompany that system. Sorry, I forgot you mentioned that. I'd even be fine with those being a lifetime achievement so that you don't even have to be in a lvled range for the kills to count. But still have the two tiers like you said.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

I like longer cooldown with higher droprate, but whats gonna happen is the safest route to defeat the content will be used to an extreme. Dont expect melee to clear content first day yada yada, or even expect a PUG shout for them. There is no more testing stuff for fun because of the valuable timer, everyone want to win and they will go with a way that will win.

It will also increase elitism bc ppl wil not want gimps that might cause them a loss, ppl dont even want them now, what will happen when we have longer cooldown? We start looking at LF>BLM with int 400 only.

Encouraging class stacking and elitism ftw brah.

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dont think you read what i posted....

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

However there should be one stipulation: Timer doesn't get reset until you WIN. meaning if you lose a dungeon you can go right back into it.

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If they do that then you can experiment and die all you want. Elitism won't matter.

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Originally Posted by Talus

Yeah the level sync would have to accompany that system. Sorry, I forgot you mentioned that. I'd even be fine with those being a lifetime achievement so that you don't even have to be in a lvled range for the kills to count. But still have the two tiers like you said.

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The reason i was wary about saying lifetime achievement is that it might get people to just solo the things as a level 50 and never help anyone. By making them limited to a certain level range it would force them to sync down and be a lot more timely. So it would be logical to team up with a new player since that would make it faster.

That is true when content first released, but when someone got a first kill, community will auto follow that strat regardless, bc it will be deemed safe and work. I guess which is already happening, hence why i believe lockouts timer isnt the root of the issue.

Myself, i prefer spammable content but with tokenized system for at least 90% of the loot and have 10% of the very strong loot on RNG to keep them rare. Kinda like Garuda right now and additional say Garuda Leather at 5% droprate to craft some very strong armor that BoE (Bound on Equip).

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

That is true when content first released, but when someone got a first kill, community will auto follow that strat regardless, bc it will be deemed safe and work. I guess which is already happening, hence why i believe lockouts timer isnt the root of the issue.

Myself, i prefer spammable content but with tokenized system for at least 90% of the loot and have 10% of the very strong loot on RNG to keep them rare. Kinda like Garuda right now and additional say Garuda Leather at 5% droprate to craft some very strong armor that BoE (Bound on Equip).

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What about spammable content with a tokenized system but diminishing returns + no timer?
Like the amount of tokens you get are based on how many times you have entered recently. First time 10, second time 5, third time 2, then 1 1 1 1 1 etc.

The main problem i see with no timer is it makes end-game for people literally with no life. To get the best gear you have to spend 50 hours doing the same thing.

A lot of people in XI kept playing even when busy just to get dynamis stuff. Like my first year of university all I really did was show up for gods and dynamis a few times a week. I kept paying but didnt have to invest tons of time.

The thing is that with a tokenized system, it will pretty much just be like ifrit except with much more noticeable progress. If you ask me, the best way to do a tokenized system is by randomizing the content, such as different path ways/events throughout the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

See this is double-edged because you not only ended up actually communicating and working with your entire server, the "emoness" was non-existent in major linkshells. When you were in an EG shell you were only in one generally, the "emoness" was more people trying to double dip in shells (outside of dynamis).

Cooldowns are good, even WoW has em.

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This wasn't the case for some servers.

There was this website - I forget the name, and I'm fairly certain it was created by a Japanese community of players - where linkshells, sorted by server, could 'reserve' a dynamis slot for a specific amount of time, and this site was created for the sole purpose of shells not getting in eachother's way.

However, using it wasn't a requirement set by the game, but simply a guideline set by the community out of a sense of courtesy. There were plenty of shells that said "Fuck the list, we'll do it when we want to."
Your shell could already be forming for a Dynamis run while someone gets the hourglass, but before you knew it another shell quickly comes and steals your run from beneath your nose with their alliance all set to go.

I was in a number of shells on across several different servers, and this kind of attitude is prominent no matter where you go. No matter how much you try and promote comradery and friendship, there are always those who stand against it and make it mean absolutely nothing.

Also, on the topic of multiple shells~ I think it's unreasonable for EG shells to require their members to be exclusive only to them. I recently joined a new LS on my XI server, and I was immediately required to drop all of my pearls to other shells - with people who I had already been friends with for roughly a month - and I wasn't too happy about that. This sort of behavior promotes only working within your shell and forsaking others. It's a shame I kept the pearls to all of my socials.. :rolleyes:

XI wasn't the end-all-be-all, Elexia. There were some things it did right, and plenty of things it DIDN'T do right. Community isn't necessarily on the positive side either.