Piety substat desperately needs change

i hopped on to do raid story quick this morning and scope out the gear, and the utter disappointment i felt at over 50% of the pieces having Piety as one of their substats was palpable. it feels like a waste of a stat right now with the way mp economy works.

proposal:

give us a similar rework to Tenacity.

Tenacity currently increases: damage mitigation, damage dealt (at ~80% the rate of Determination) and healing done by the tank. the increase in damage buff from tenacity was a buff this expansion that seems like it was in response to complaints about tenacity being a dead stat.

Piety currently increases: MP recovery

that's it. nothing else. we have a stat that is basically not helpful for anything but post-raise recovery.

i would propose granting an outgoing healing and damage buff to it, similarly in line to Tenacity's buff, such that seeing a chest piece with Piety as its primary substat no longer feels like "well, that's getting chucked in the glam dresser immediately".

I feel like most of the substats need reworking, honestly. I haven't looked much into if the changes to Tenacity significantly helped it or not; the problem with it was that it didn't scale well, and I don't know if that's still true.
Critical Hit just overshadows literally everything else because of how strong it is. If you're not melding as much crit on your gear as possible, you're basically doing it wrong.
Direct Hit is basically just crit again, except it doesn't affect heals. We really don't even need to have this stat in the game at all.
Determination is okay, I tend to meld it instead of DH because most of what I do is duty finder content, so having that extra healing cushion is nice.
Spell Speed and Skill Speed are a waste of a substat except for on a couple of jobs, and even then you only meld it to reach a certain GCD and that's it.
Piety, as you said, is basically worthless. MP economy has not been a concern for a long time.

issues with substats in general is that the only standard they are judged against are dps.
Regardless of how good tenacity is in general (it provide 10% passive damage mitigation per 2.5k tenacity), it will only be judged by its damage component, which is 80% of DET, so behind enough you don't want really want any.

The difference being if you have tenacity on a few pieces, its fine you don't need to get a 10ilvl lower piece without.
Same with skill/spell speed, even if they aren't really desired most jobs like to have 1 or 2 pieces with it for comfort during their burst phase or alignment of their rotation.
Piety is simply the most egregious one as its total value is absolute zero. Every healer has plenty of mana regen nowadays, and even the argument of helping with raise, we would get an extra raise per minute for each 2.2k piety, its not even that much.
So when you have a piece with piety on it, you take an ilvl cut if needs be to avoid it. Even on weapons, when the savage weapon (+5ilvl compared to tomestone one) has piety on it, it is desirable to take the tomestone one, which is sad.

Piety also just isn't that impactful. When I was joining random pf groups for ex's I went full piety melds after spellspeed and in ex2 there are so many deaths and raises needed I would hit not enough mp to cast malefic or broil. (This is with full Bis and piety melds) so idk. Piety is a bad Stat for any and every reason.

It's so sad that Piety was more useful when it used to increase your Max MP as that had the secondary effect of buffing your MP Regen as well since it used to be based on a % of your Max MP. Once it became a Healer substat though, it was given the same treatment as healers in being meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Wyti

issues with substats in general is that the only standard they are judged against are dps.
Regardless of how good tenacity is in general (it provide 10% passive damage mitigation per 2.5k tenacity), it will only be judged by its damage component, which is 80% of DET, so behind enough you don't want really want any.
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It would be judged by its mitigation component if tank were actually being hit hard.
In the same way piety could be useful if the only way to have mp issue wouldn't be to spam rez.

The issue with those stats is that they're tailored for a problem that really doesn't exist.

Tank only seriously take damage during tank burster and those are made to be survived at minimum ilv. Beyond, AA are usually not a problem beside week1 and 2 but DPS is also a core problem at this point.
If Tenacity would massively reduce AA damage taken, to the point that it would save several hassle/healing gcd, people would use it.
But currently what's the point? SCH sit on a full gauge at 1min mark, sage can easily play without Heima and Soteria, AST barely need to use their new cards and WHM can remove Afflatus Solace from their bar because Rapture is more than enough.

It also doesn't help that bosses can't AA while casting, and some spend half the fight casting.
If they want tank to use tenacity, just massively boost the mitigation (on AA) and the damage done by bosses AA.
Basically, make it useful.

Same goes for piety, this stat is entirely useless. Heck even the mp system is obsolete on healers as it only function as a rez limitator. Which ironically only affects casual players. (you know, those who don't actually need more difficulties playing, those which Y.P doesn't want to scare with a dps rotation). They could remove MP entirely and I wouldn't even notice beside sparing me 1 button press a minute. (And making the party frame smaller... I'm all for that)
I understand they keep it as an iconic rpg element but... Mana has stopped being a gameplay feature since ShB, you could very easily play healer without ever seeing your mp bar.

I still don't know why direct hit is in the game.

Piety should just be given in the short term enough added damage that’s it’s not a gain to drop 10 ilvls on some accessories just to avoid having piety (similar to tenacity where tanks don’t like it but they won’t lower their own ilvl to avoid it)

Then in the longer term all substats need to be reworked

I want it to work like Tenacity.

+MP regen
+ Damage
+ Healing provided

But the community isn't vocal enough about this stat.
It's a forgotten "problem".

The problem with MP and Piety is that you can't really make a healer have bad MP economy bc then you're being forced to melded a stat that the other jobs don't have to deal with.

I'd rather they just make piety similiar to DH.

If they want it to be really useful, it should provide significantly more mana regen per tick than it currently does. That way it would actually serve a purpose in prog settings. As it is, you could meld full piety over your whole set and you'll get like.. 2 more revives out over the course of a fight before going out of mana, it's a bad joke.

Or, as others said, give it the Tenacity treatment and make it roughly similar to Determination on a -10 ilvl piece, but I think buffing it to serve a niche purpose would be more interesting, because you're still never gonna meld Tenacity, and you wouldn't meld Piety either if it got this treatment.

Piety materia being useless is okay by me, but full agreement on making the stat itself useful. I would personally like it to be a mitigation stat like Tenacity + some healing potency as well, as piety is most useful during prog and a bit of damage mitigation and stronger heals makes prog easier.

just make it the Healer's det. +dmg +healing +mp. Make Tenacity and Piety on par with Det and replace Det in those specific roles. Since only those roles can use those stats.

This tier's gear proves the point. At this point, there's serious consideration being given by the better than me at combat math nerds that the item level 710 gloves, which, it should be noted, would have significantly less Mind than the augmented tome or raid gloves at 730, might contribute more to damage than either of those, Piety is such a nothing stat.

Edit: same with the 710 normal raid boots.

I thought I'd have a flick through my spreadsheet with the Neo-Kingdom, Light-Heavy, Archeo-Kingdom and Quetzalli sets in it and found the following:-
Of all gear items present 23 of 44 have piety on them.
Piety stat overlaps in the following measures:-
Head pieces: 0
Chest pieces: 2
Hand pieces: 2
Leg pieces: 0
Foot pieces: 3
Earrings: 2
Necklaces: 3
Bracelets: 2
And rings: 4 (It's inescapable outside of Ex2 or level 90 dungeons)

Piety should have a dps component added to it.

Piety desperately needs a change, as it currently is it's very existence is a nerf to Healers.

If any piece of Healer gear has it, it's actual impact as a whole is that you have less secondary stats than other roles.

What's hilarious is that according to Akh morning, piety had a little bit of a nerf at lvl 100. Back in ew, each tier happened every 12 or 13 points mean once you got that respective tier, you got 1 extra mp for regen. For Dawntrail, it got changed to 18 or 19.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

What's hilarious is that according to Akh morning, piety had a little bit of a nerf at lvl 100. Back in ew, each tier happened every 12 or 13 points mean once you got that respective tier, you got 1 extra mp for regen. For Dawntrail, it got changed to 18 or 19.

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That's a thing with all the secondary stats, the level modifier pushes the steps back, I lost a lot of crit over it.

piety was a casualty of the shift to the standardized mp pool. Now there isn't anything meaningful you can turn it into. At least anything that scales at a useful level. Nobody needs healing buff from it. If you made it a mp regen effect that scaled at all nobody would ever be out of mp even if they tried. So it sits there being largely useless. Just because they need stats beyond crit for the substat system to even look like an actual system.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I want it to work like Tenacity.

+MP regen
+ Damage
+ Healing provided

But the community isn't vocal enough about this stat.
It's a forgotten "problem".

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Because healers went on strike, so that Healer specific stats is forgotten

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Originally Posted by Eastwall

Because healers went on strike, so that Healer specific stats is forgotten

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Ah, someone who believes the 5 Youtubers who stopped playing matter. We could have gotten actual solutions had we not tried to idolize people who make money from us watching their content and hence for whom riling us up in a "healer strike" is merely a business decision: It makes more people watch their videos about it, hence more ad income.

(People are quick to forget that content creators are business people, not community voices)

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Ah, someone who believes the 5 Youtubers who stopped playing matter. We could have gotten actual solutions had we not tried to idolize people who make money from us watching their content and hence for whom riling us up in a "healer strike" is merely a business decision: It makes more people watch their videos about it, hence more ad income.

(People are quick to forget that content creators are business people, not community voices)

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About* or against*. Not in.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I want it to work like Tenacity.

+MP regen
+ Damage
+ Healing provided

But the community isn't vocal enough about this stat.
It's a forgotten "problem".

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tenacity sounds good but is not so usefull as it sounds. i would like both to be meaningfull

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Originally Posted by Dante131

tenacity sounds good but is not so usefull as it sounds. i would like both to be meaningfull

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Tenacity isn’t great but piety it’s actually a DPS gain to drop your ilvl up to 30 ilvls to avoid putting piety on your gear

Tenacity is strong enough that it’s never a gain to drop ilvls

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Ah, someone who believes the 5 Youtubers who stopped playing matter. We could have gotten actual solutions had we not tried to idolize people who make money from us watching their content and hence for whom riling us up in a "healer strike" is merely a business decision: It makes more people watch their videos about it, hence more ad income.

(People are quick to forget that content creators are business people, not community voices)

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There's been years of feedback in regards to piety that has all been ignored. To hell with the youtubers, the strike happened before they commented on it