2 possible combat style chanes...let us vote?

i saw in the FFXIVcore interview that the team is "battling" over which of their 2 combat system idea that want to use.....so why not show/explain it to the people an let us vot in a poll?

give a decent description of what they are like and possibly a short video clip of how it looks like then say "vote on which you would like to see.

cant see how it could hurt. And at this point a lot of people are going to sit there and wonder if the other one would have been much better.

anyone agree?

the quote:
"We're not looking to copy what other MMOs are doing. But we are looking to move in that direction, and right now the battle team has two options that they're thinking of. And basically, they're battling against which one they're going to choose. We're going to be moving in a similar direction, but it's not something that copies another game."

I'd rather not. Enough with the immature requests of 13-year olds controlling how we spend our time. Put a damn professional GAME DESIGNER in charge and have some authorship over your own work!

It's like waiting for another mona lisa to be painted by all of italy (=it's going to be a mess with everyone involved).

This is the kind of thing I see here, and from SE that drives me nuts.

Every time someone makes a suggestion there are mixed thoughts and ideas which is completely understandable. However, it always seems to come to, on here, "Ok, well lets just make an option" or "Lets vote on it". And then when it comes to SE its "Let's have a poll and see what the playerbase wants". These, imo, are the wrong answers. This game, right now, needs direction and leadership. Someone on that dev team needs to grab the bull by the horns and say "This is the direction we want to go with this game". They need to pick a direction, get people interested and go from there. Not this "We'll do our best to give you guys what you want" bullshit.

Like jumping. Holy crap. Its just jumping but everyone went off on this spam jumping crap and Noaki says, basically, "Oh, you guys don't want spam jump ok ill make sure we do something to make it work without spam jumping" rather than just adding jumping because they felt its a good part of the game and nerfing the problem after. IF IT BECOMES A PROBLEM.

I don't know why I decided to fire this off in this thread, but whatever. Just saying.

arent the only people who can vote are the actual players (people who bought the game and made an acount)? so how is it a bunch of 13yr olds voting....and in the end if more people want one thing over the other, they are just satisfying more then less.

by now the people who follow the game and bother to take the poll are not random people who dont care, its mostly the people playing or the people who are waiting for it to get better, so i cant see that being a good excuse. Its still leadership to make the decision to say, lets let the players decide. We are not deciding on how everything will work, just between 2 options that they like both of.

Yeah, can we let the game developers do their job instead of trying to put our 2cents into every damn thing they do?

If EVERYONE keeps making suggestions THEY think would make the game better, NOTHING is going to get done and nobody is going to like the outcome.

Everyone seems to think they have the answers, but they have no idea how to build a game or how to balance all their suggestions. Most of them aren't even feasible.

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Originally Posted by Seif

I'd rather not. Enough with the immature requests of 13-year olds controlling how we spend our time. Put a damn professional GAME DESIGNER in charge and have some authorship over your own work!

It's like waiting for another mona lisa to be painted by all of italy (=it's going to be a mess with everyone involved).

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Lol, what a bunch of sanctimonious babble.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Yeah, can we let the game developers do their job instead of trying to put our 2cents into every damn thing they do?

If EVERYONE keeps making suggestions THEY think would make the game better, NOTHING is going to get done and nobody is going to like the outcome.

Everyone seems to think they have the answers, but they have no idea how to build a game or how to balance all their suggestions. Most of them aren't even feasible.

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clearly the company thinks both are viable..hence they answer they gave, so asking the people who play the game to see what they might like better cant really hurt. It has nothing to do with balance or us not knowing things, because if that was the issue, they wouldnt have 2 things they want to use.

again its not what we think up, they already have 2 idea they like and work, but havent decided on, we just get to help them pick.

Well it seems that Companies are the only thing that SE doesn't want our opinion on. I bet after they come out people will complain that their to hard and because theirs no challenge in the game why start now. For me i want something thats going to take time to get, an item or gear. I want to be challenged at this game. I want great gear to take months to get, not days. That way theirs a goal and actual endgame content to do.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Yeah, can we let the game developers do their job instead of trying to put our 2cents into every damn thing they do?

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{Yes, please}

its possible both of these ideas suck too.

though i'll give this new team the benefit of the doubt.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Yeah, can we let the game developers do their job instead of trying to put our 2cents into every damn thing they do?

If EVERYONE keeps making suggestions THEY think would make the game better, NOTHING is going to get done and nobody is going to like the outcome.

Everyone seems to think they have the answers, but they have no idea how to build a game or how to balance all their suggestions. Most of them aren't even feasible.

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I entirely agree.

While I believe it's important to be connected to your fanbase, it's also really important to... you know

know what you're doing and have a plan.

SE just seems to be going in circles with all of this user feedback. To this day I still don't understand why they didn't take any of their past experience from XI and shape it into a constructive pattern for XIV. I'm not saying XIV should be XI, but SE can certainly learn a couple things from the past.

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Oh, you guys don't want spam jump ok ill make sure we do something to make it work without spam jumping" rather than just adding jumping because they felt its a good part of the game and nerfing the problem after. IF IT BECOMES A PROBLEM.

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PERFECT EXAMPLE. I don't get why they don't do this, instead of trying to fix everything at once...

If you take a feature from XI,then ask if people would like it, while not mentioning it's from XI you'll find out what a lot of people really think about it

this whole thing only came up because of how he specificly answered the question, that they have 2 very down pat ideas that seem to work, but they havent decided on one. If he had been less specific and just said "we have ideas" or something, i would have never brought it up, but knowing the details of what is going on, this would be one of the few things id say give the people a voice for. We arent giving any ideas/details/examples, we would just be giving the nudging vote on one of their 2 ideas.

For all we know they already said "well this one in the end will work better" wich would be great, get it done and give it to use, but again it was a recent interview that he gave that answer that just screams "help us pick one".

In order for you to figure out why things are like this you need to look at the entire story. They made this game, assume it would be good, they knew the problems it had way before beta, they admitted it in a interview, if only they had more time SE said. Now they've replace they're workers as if to blame someone and now with a new leader assuming it will lead to a new direction. However they are still stuck, because as people have already reminded them countless of time is (you guys made a terrible game, because you didn't listen to us the fans) now they are unhappy and forced to write us letters and giving us a poll trying to gain our trust back. They they have a solution plan to fix this world war VI. They came up with plan stfu but they can't say heres stfu plan they need to make people happy into knowing plan stfu will be best direction to go. So they give us option stfu and we're doomed. Sure they came up with option stfu and we're doomed but what if they like stfu the most and people select option we're doomed. because it has to show they are taking our feedback. Which will cause more problems, the game will take a unknown direction that's for sure no one knows how it will end I hope with a big bang. Square Enix has to man the F up, we all know what really happened and that doesn't matter. Who cares about giving us up to date information, build this thing back up from ground up if that's what it will take. Stop taking peoples feedback all the time...

This will be selfish but I don't care. It has to be said if your going to take ideas from people you're ears should only be open to those who are playing XIV and XI current players. only people that are really intersted and actually want this game to success. Not people just trying to bright down the house with ideas of other MMOs. If you want to add jump, I dislike that but by all means add it, if you want auto attack add it, do something remember XI and all of those FF games you made come on for god sakes.

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Originally Posted by Seif

I'd rather not. Enough with the immature requests of 13-year olds controlling how we spend our time. Put a damn professional GAME DESIGNER in charge and have some authorship over your own work!

It's like waiting for another mona lisa to be painted by all of italy (=it's going to be a mess with everyone involved).

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Lol, what a bunch of sanctimonious babble.

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If by sanctimonious babble you mean 100% correct, then yes. Game design should be in the hands of game designers, not left up to the whims of a majority who can't even agree on the most minor of details, much less stuff that can make or break a game.

Alright hold up, its fair that a lot of you dont trust SE to handle things on their own but thats why they restructured the team with a younger more ambitious project lead (that nobody had heard of before) at the head of development. This is really Yoshida's chance to make himself this new big guy at square everyone looks up to so I doubt he's going to make careless decisions when faced with two systems.

That being said i'd totally like to know what these two systems are :3c i cant help it i'm curious

As someone in game design myself(programming point of view), it's harder than you think to come up with well balanced, implementable (within given time frames and deadlines) and enjoyable mechanics/systems. If they havn't told us what the options they're currently working on are then it's probably just because there's still some tweaking that they'd like to do instead of presenting us with 2 half-baked ideas and getting more trolling(although some people who don't troll may actually be helpful). Might seem easy to say "We want to be able to jump", but something as simple as that would involve:

-New animations for every single character model jumping (possibly even having to make the armor pieces move)
-Making sure terrain could be transversed and objects could be jumped over
-Getting rid of potential(and critical) "Stuck" spots
-Preventing abuse(jumping to places monsters can't reach and shooting them pew pew style).
-In-battle jumping(currently if you're moving and you use skills, the animations queue up, they don't chop each other to bits, that may have to change).

And that's just what I could come up with at the time of writing this, something that as a player we may view as being just a spacebar button, involves a lot of coding and debugging.

So now think of trying to revamp an -entire battle system-, considering they've had to have new people coming in to work with some other dude's code, the fact they've got TWO ideas in the works is amazing.

But that's just my 2 cents. Just hoping for less trolls and people raging at SE.

I don't like the idea of us voting of everything for the game let the GAME DESIGNER pick on what they like i want to play a SE game not "FFfanboy" game. If they allow us to vote on everything this would be like wow -.- oh this mob too hard 1day later update "we fix the mob hp and made him easyer"

Whats the saying.. To many cooks in the kitchen ruin the stew?

In a recent interview Robin walker of Valve software said, and im loosely paraphrasing here. Raw solutions are really not that helpful. The most helpful things they see coming from there fan base are the problems there having with there games. If multiple users post a "Update idea" for team fortress 2 often they see that the people are trying to fix the same problem, just coming at it from different angles. Once they understand the root problem the posters are trying to fix they can attack it and hopefully do so in a way that makes most happy. He later went on to say something along the lines of The most valuable feedback they can receive is to watch people talking to each other about the game. What they like about it, what they dislike about it. While i imagine that the culture over at the Square enix hq is a we bit different then Valves i can see the same being true.

Discussion and debate are healthy, especially in this environment. But at the same time what we need from the team is strong leadership. For them to wade through this morass see the heart of the discussions that's beating beneath the surface. To take that and apply what makes sense for the direction they want to take this sleeping behemoth. Honestly my biggest worry is that there currently to focused on what every one wants rather then what we need, even if we don't always recognize it.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

If by sanctimonious babble you mean 100% correct, then yes. Game design should be in the hands of game designers, not left up to the whims of a majority who can't even agree on the most minor of details, much less stuff that can make or break a game.

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If I meant he/she was correct I would have stated it as such. "Whims" my arse, there was nothing whimsical about the polls and the direction people wanted the game to head in. The data collected was very acute. That said, sure I'd be more comfortable leaving it in thegame designers hands completely if they didn't botch the game up so badly its running on fumes. Nor would I mind so much if FF11's crew wasn't so notorious for never listening to the fan base about anything. Sorry, they don't come even close to deserving total unfettered control to the extent we shouldn't have some kind of say in a game and battle system that is so bad its become part of the online joke culture; regardless if its a new team or not.

Make or break the game? Maybe when you get a job to some kind of enlightening level you'll understand the game is broke. Unless of course you consider a game that cost hundreds of millions to make has only poultry 33k in users a success. Heres a hint: You know why the game is broke? Because they refused to listen to anyone in beta or the other myriad of voices saying this game will not work.

If I can have a say in what direction they want to go in you better believe I want to voice my opinion. Perhaps you don't get that fine line between having a say of direction Vs "game design". No on on these boards is going to be designing anything any time soon, but we should have some kind of insight in a game they admit themselves is broken.

they did have a direction of where the game was heading. Everyoine hates it so their asking what everyone want. I agree with a vote thing. Since if they don't and decide on their own. No one going to like it for the sake of not liking it. And we are back to square one.

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Originally Posted by Neogohan1

As someone in game design myself(programming point of view), it's harder than you think to come up with well balanced, implementable (within given time frames and deadlines) and enjoyable mechanics/systems. If they havn't told us what the options they're currently working on are then it's probably just because there's still some tweaking that they'd like to do instead of presenting us with 2 half-baked ideas and getting more trolling(although some people who don't troll may actually be helpful). Might seem easy to say "We want to be able to jump", but something as simple as that would involve:

-New animations for every single character model jumping (possibly even having to make the armor pieces move)
-Making sure terrain could be transversed and objects could be jumped over
-Getting rid of potential(and critical) "Stuck" spots
-Preventing abuse(jumping to places monsters can't reach and shooting them pew pew style).
-In-battle jumping(currently if you're moving and you use skills, the animations queue up, they don't chop each other to bits, that may have to change).

And that's just what I could come up with at the time of writing this, something that as a player we may view as being just a spacebar button, involves a lot of coding and debugging.

So now think of trying to revamp an -entire battle system-, considering they've had to have new people coming in to work with some other dude's code, the fact they've got TWO ideas in the works is amazing.

But that's just my 2 cents. Just hoping for less trolls and people raging at SE.

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You are kinda trolling yourself assuming people don't know how much work it takes revamp an entire battle system. Jump, really who needs it, sure it would save time but it's better if they focus on other major and likeable things. It's pretty obvious that everyone should know how much time and effort it takes into building any game not just MMO. IMO.