Flow of time

How does the flow of time work in Heritage Found and Solution Nine? How is that 30 years passed for Zoraal Ja and other characters like Cahciua and Namika who got trapped in the dome, but now after the story, it seems to pass at the same rate as the outside world? For example, after dealing with the final zone, shouldn't have another 30 years have passed in Solution Nine? Is time synced between that area and the outside world now? If so, how?

Based on what we've seen in the First and with Dawntrail's story, some sort of corporeal travel past an interdimensional barrier creates a lockstep stabilization between the two areas. For the First, that stabilization seems to have started with the WoL's travel there. For Heritage Found, that stabilization seems to have started with the invasion. The exact mechanism is unclear, as with most things involving shard travel.

But then shouldn't synchronization first occur from Zoraal Ja traveling to the shard? Or even Krile's parents bringing here here?

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Originally Posted by Nitelancer

But then shouldn't synchronization first occur from Zoraal Ja traveling to the shard? Or even Krile's parents bringing here here?

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I figure they're going to go into this at some point. Because we've now had two instances where our traveling from one shard to another (or a merged shard) normalizes the flow of time. Maybe Azem's presence does that, idk.

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Originally Posted by Nitelancer

But then shouldn't synchronization first occur from Zoraal Ja traveling to the shard? Or even Krile's parents bringing here here?

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Krile's parents bringing her here wasnt done within the dome, and it is in fact the WoL traveling that seems to synchronize the shards together. Its relatively unclear as to this methodology. But time is relative to ourselves in this world and all. That being said, The OP is thinking in reverse. If we were in there for "several days" it would be mere minutese on the outside of the dome. Its only 30 years = 1 day from the point of view of those outside the dome. Generally if it wasnt the WoL themselves stabilizing the dilation, it would not have been Krile's parents that first crossed, its the first crossers a few Eons ago Source time.

That being said the time dilation is quite a conundrum when it is looked upon in terms of When Alexandria's war happened. Since Otis is in the 450-500 yr old range, that happened all of 16 days ago on the source. If Krile has been here for 20 years and 1 day =30 years... The golden city portal has been around for 219 THOUAND years of Souce time, even if we shift that from 1 day to 3 or 4 days we only shift that into the 50k year range. So we can only assume that time dilation isn't a constant over time. In order for Alexandria to have had its history as recent as Otis asserts it to have been.

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Originally Posted by niwaar

Krile's parents bringing her here wasnt done within the dome, and it is in fact the WoL traveling that seems to synchronize the shards together. Its relatively unclear as to this methodology. But time is relative to ourselves in this world and all. That being said, The OP is thinking in reverse. If we were in there for "several days" it would be mere minutese on the outside of the dome. Its only 30 years = 1 day from the point of view of those outside the dome. Generally if it wasnt the WoL themselves stabilizing the dilation, it would not have been Krile's parents that first crossed, its the first crossers a few Eons ago Source time.

That being said the time dilation is quite a conundrum when it is looked upon in terms of When Alexandria's war happened. Since Otis is in the 450-500 yr old range, that happened all of 16 days ago on the source. If Krile has been here for 20 years and 1 day =30 years... The golden city portal has been around for 219 THOUAND years of Souce time, even if we shift that from 1 day to 3 or 4 days we only shift that into the 50k year range. So we can only assume that time dilation isn't a constant over time. In order for Alexandria to have had its history as recent as Otis asserts it to have been.

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That is quite the conundrum. But here's another: if it's the WoL's presence that syncs time, then shouldn't time still be unsynced when Zoraal Ja invades Tuliyollal so that a significant amount of time would have passed in the dome while he was outside? Maybe this could have happened and the story still makes sense, but I'm not sure.

I think that we're just looking at a moment of convenience-based storytelling that, in-universe, sort of just manifests as a 'weird it happened twice' thing.

Heritage Found synced up with the outside world at around when we busted into Vanguard, just as the First synced up with the Source at around when we crossed over. But in both cases, it's correlation rather than causation; there is no suggestion that the transit actually caused that sync, rather that it just happened to line up, and it lines up just because it'd be a massive headache to factor in 'time flows differently between shards' in a game with a largely consistent world.

I could possibly be convinced to believe that Heritage Found wasn't coincidence and we're looking at sort of a temporal instance of something like 'two connected containers of water equalize in pressure', but I don't think that would explain anything outside of Heritage Found specifically.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I think that we're just looking at a moment of convenience-based storytelling that, in-universe, sort of just manifests as a 'weird it happened twice' thing.

Heritage Found synced up with the outside world at around when we busted into Vanguard, just as the First synced up with the Source at around when we crossed over. But in both cases, it's correlation rather than causation; there is no suggestion that the transit actually caused that sync, rather that it just happened to line up, and it lines up just because it'd be a massive headache to factor in 'time flows differently between shards' in a game with a largely consistent world.

I could possibly be convinced to believe that Heritage Found wasn't coincidence and we're looking at sort of a temporal instance of something like 'two connected containers of water equalize in pressure', but I don't think that would explain anything outside of Heritage Found specifically.

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They introduced a new concept this expansion: interdimensional fusion. If the fusion takes time to complete, then time could be unsynced while it's happening and synced once it's done. That could be one explanation. But the idea of interdimensional fusion as a process is kind of hard to comprehend. Like a dome appeared and some people from our world got trapped in it while the fusion was incomplete?...

tl;dr: Don't worry, a wizard did it.

When the dome appeared, time for the people in Yyasulani (and Zoraal Ja, who had gone over earlier) passed at an accelerated rate compared to time for the people outside of it. By completing Vanguard, a bridge was made that stabilized the difference (synched it to Source time).

Don't worry about the how or why of it; it happens however the writer wants it to.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

tl;dr: Don't worry, a wizard did it.

When the dome appeared, time for the people in Yyasulani (and Zoraal Ja, who had gone over earlier) passed at an accelerated rate compared to time for the people outside of it. By completing Vanguard, a bridge was made that stabilized the difference (synched it to Source time).

Don't worry about the how or why of it; it happens however the writer wants it to.

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Always remember the main rule of time travel:

Time travel works how the story needs it to work this week.

If they ever fully solidified the time flow between Shards into a measurable and controllable phenomenon, they gut the flexibility and range of stories.

The electrope around the portal - and possibly the portal itself?- wasn't there a thousand years ago when the Yok Huy were mining and starting to have the visions. Which, hmm.. We are going to assume that bleedover was attempts at the fusion that later affected Yssalani> Or a form or radiation contamination from the gate? Is the material electrope grown from whatever the gate is or just what you get from electric aether poisoning? I'm about to start mining in the Sylphlands.

And the Golden City of Alexandria with its dome, Endless, and regulators was running for centuries after the war and it was only as the power demand grew too great as a drain on the surviving aetheric resources that the idea of fusing with another Shard was urgent. The question then becomes is does Krile's parents' dialogue confirm that they personally were alive during the time that Eternal Queen Sphene was created or are they from at least a few decades afterwards? We do know that 100 years passed on the First when only a few months of Stormblood's MSQ did on the Source, and the flow on time isn't a steady conversion rate.

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Originally Posted by niwaar

Krile's parents bringing her here wasnt done within the dome, and it is in fact the WoL traveling that seems to synchronize the shards together. Its relatively unclear as to this methodology. But time is relative to ourselves in this world and all.

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I don't agree WoL stabilizes time.
In ShB, the Exarch told us the First was coming to a period when time in both shards is flowing about the same speed. He didn't mention it was exactly when we joined, he seemed to know about it before hand.
In Dawntrail, Sphene tells us time synchronized when the army left the dome.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

I don't agree WoL stabilizes time.
In ShB, the Exarch told us the First was coming to a period when time in both shards is flowing about the same speed. He didn't mention it was exactly when we joined, he seemed to know about it before hand.
In Dawntrail, Sphene tells us time synchronized when the army left the dome.

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Do you remember which part of the MSQ that was? I'd like to go back and read what she said.

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Originally Posted by Nitelancer

Do you remember which part of the MSQ that was? I'd like to go back and read what she said.

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Around the first quests in Heritage Found, when Sphene does some lore dump on us.
At this timing in this playthrough https://youtu.be/tPbX4x8maDE?t=6461
Quoting G'raha :

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Originally Posted by G'raha

And based on the queen's account, this encampment may have come to serve as a physical bridge between the two planes, after which the dome was forced into the Source's temporal flow.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

Around the first quests in Heritage Found, when Sphene does some lore dump on us.
At this timing in this playthrough https://youtu.be/tPbX4x8maDE?t=6461
Quoting G'raha :

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Thanks!

Sphene:

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"As absurd though it may sound, there is no doubt in my mind the events that led to the joining of our lands occured thiry years ago."

"Which is not to say I understand why our perceptions of the intervening time are so radically different. We only just become aware of the discrepancy, when Zoraal Ja's military base was complete, and we were at last able to venture beyond the barrier."

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G'raha Tia:

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"It's not unlike how time passess differently in the First and the Source—the fluctuating space of the rift between them disrupting temporal equivalence."

"Perhaps the same holds true here and time flowed faster within the dome."

"...based on the queen's account, this encampment may have come to serve as a physical bridge between the two planes, after which the dome was forced into the Source's temporal flow."

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So, the construction of the encampment brought them into temporal equivalence. That is strange. Or was it the construction of Vanguard (dungeon shown before this part in the video)? That is where they traveled to the outside from. But Vanguard interfaces with the outside world—part of it is outside the dome. That how we bust in. But how could they build something on the outside without knowing that a lot of time passes inside?

...this is why I wish they would stay away from time stuff lol.

My impression was that Vanguard was acting as a sort of "airlock" between the two realities, but once we burst it open, the area within the dome became fully part of the Source and subject to an equal flow of time. This is also likely what allows linkpearl communication across the barrier.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

My impression was that Vanguard was acting as a sort of "airlock" between the two realities, but once we burst it open, the area within the dome became fully part of the Source and subject to an equal flow of time. This is also likely what allows linkpearl communication across the barrier.

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I don't see why it's when we went into Vanguard, and not when they obviously opened it to let troops and units go through.
We have no mention of Zoraal Ja having come back to a significantly different time, nor of any time effect between any command center they have (since they're able to relay infos to Zoraal Ja during the second attack) and the units/airships in Tural.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

I don't see why it's when we went into Vanguard, and not when they obviously opened it to let troops and units go through.
We have no mention of Zoraal Ja having come back to a significantly different time, nor of any time effect between any command center they have (since they're able to relay infos to Zoraal Ja during the second attack) and the units/airships in Tural.

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Yeah, I was under the impression through the dialogue that Zoraal Ja breaching the dome with Vanguard and sending his force outside the dome is what made the time on both sides sync up.

They said that they had to puncture the barrier in order for them to send their forces out and it makes no sense for the punctured barrier to maintain the time dilation inside, especially if it wasn't even known to Zoraal Ja since he thought 30 years passed on both sides.

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Originally Posted by Nitelancer

They introduced a new concept this expansion: interdimensional fusion. If the fusion takes time to complete, then time could be unsynced while it's happening and synced once it's done. That could be one explanation. But the idea of interdimensional fusion as a process is kind of hard to comprehend. Like a dome appeared and some people from our world got trapped in it while the fusion was incomplete?...

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They stole this trope from the failed last season of the TV series sliders. A dr. Geiger uses a fusion device called the combine to experiment in fusioning dimensions.

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Originally Posted by Astronema

They stole this trope from the failed last season of the TV series sliders. A dr. Geiger uses a fusion device called the combine to experiment in fusioning dimensions.

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Far more likely is that it's riffing on Final Fantasy IX, which was approximately concurrent with Sliders' last season. The plan laid out in IX never really got put into play, but the description more or less lines up. Hardly 'stolen'.

And of course even then it was a reiteration on Final Fantasy V's story, and over the years similar ideas have cropped up in Doctor Who, Xenoblade, both DC and Marvel comics (including DC and Marvel together in 1996) and more examples that I haven't really got the time or interest in cataloguing. I wouldn't call this a common trope, it's not especially often that a story winds up in a situation to do it, but it's fairly plentiful to the point where Final Fantasy's done it a few times.

I think now time is stabilized and in sync with the source. This is because the gate between worlds is now closed. There isn’t a true direct connection between Heritage/Solution and whatever share they came from anymore so those spots have synchronized with the sources time and happen to hit an equilibrium at the time of the invasion.