(Probably unpopular opinion) All jobs should start at 30.

Could just be me, but I like having everything on the same playing field in terms of leveling.

AST/DRK/MCH- Starts at 30
RDM/SAM- 50
GNB/DNC- 60
RPR/SGE- 70
VPR/PCT- 80

Its just all over the place and I feel like all jobs starting at the same level and make them more obtainable by starting at 30.

30 to me ( or at most 50) is a sweet spot, still within ARR and players can play the jobs they want from the start of their journey.

Level crunch to 50 overall should do the trick for the next 5 xPacs

They can do it that you start at lv 1 and finish arr at 10 and then level 5 levels per old xPac.
They should also trim the "fat" from the story, too many unimportant things in each xPac, players dont want to go trough 100 hours of story just to join their friends.

They wont tho, because selling story skip is great for business :shrug:

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Originally Posted by DaveFishnomer

They can do it that you start at lv 1 and finish arr at 10 and then level 5 levels per old xPac.

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that is a lot of pointless overhauling when they can just keep ARR the same but disconnect the next expansion from the rest so HW-DT is extra content that you can go to as you pls but 8.0 is 50-60

story skips would still sell cause anyone who hasn't played could skip straight to the end of ARR and start the new journey, plus they just add more per expansion like normal.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

that is a lot of pointless overhauling when they can just keep ARR the same but disconnect the next expansion from the rest so HW-DT is extra content that you can go to as you pls but 8.0 is 50-60

story skips would still sell cause anyone who hasn't played could skip straight to the end of ARR and start the new journey, plus they just add more per expansion like normal.

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Sorry I did not understand your first point, how is it pointless exactly? Leveling up any character from 1 to 100 is much more time consuming than 1-50, the main issue is the time it takes.

Regarding the second point, story skips would sell less if you shirnk down the MSQ, if you need to waste around 250 hours (according to google) to complete the story vs lets say 100, you are more likely to story skip, they need to trim down the less important stuff in the msq (which imo there are a lot of) to allow new players to join in, I personally have a lot of friends who wont even look at the general direction of ffxiv because they dont want to skip the story but they dont want to dedicate 5h a day for 2 months just to be able to play with me.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

30 to me ( or at most 50) is a sweet spot

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They 're not making low level weaponry. Small indie company, you know.

I remember really liking the "class into job" system but they gave up so quickly on it. Now it's just there to confuse new people.

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Originally Posted by DaveFishnomer

Sorry I did not understand your first point, how is it pointless exactly? Leveling up any character from 1 to 100 is much more time consuming than 1-50, the main issue is the time it takes.

Regarding the second point, story skips would sell less if you shirnk down the MSQ, if you need to waste around 250 hours (according to google) to complete the story vs lets say 100, you are more likely to story skip, they need to trim down the less important stuff in the msq (which imo there are a lot of) to allow new players to join in, I personally have a lot of friends who wont even look at the general direction of ffxiv because they dont want to skip the story but they dont want to dedicate 5h a day for 2 months just to be able to play with me.

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"rehaul tons of systems because leveling is time consuming"

You do realize that they could just speed up leveling lol, and that by shrinking the amount of levels you need does not in any way mean it'll be faster, they could just make each level take longer.

Overhaul the systems because new jobs being both dumbed down for beginners and locked behind level 90 is genuinely stupid game design made to sell skips

Edit: here's my overhaul suggestion for at least level sync

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ion-level-sync

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Originally Posted by DaveFishnomer

Sorry I did not understand your first point, how is it pointless exactly? Leveling up any character from 1 to 100 is much more time consuming than 1-50, the main issue is the time it takes.

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it's pointless cause why would they balance lets say lvl 50 content around lvl 10? not only that they have to change and rebalanced every expansions based on 5 lvls.

its a very very big change, while they will have to stat squish next expansion going back to lvl 50 stats is the easiest and quickest squish just make all expansions besides the newest one lvl 50 content.

They could make weapons that scale like preorder earrings

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Could just be me, but I like having everything on the same playing field in terms of leveling.

AST/DRK/MCH- Starts at 30
RDM/SAM- 50
GNB/DNC- 60
RPR/SGE- 70
VPR/PCT- 80

Its just all over the place and I feel like all jobs starting at the same level and make them more obtainable by starting at 30.

30 to me ( or at most 50) is a sweet spot, still within ARR and players can play the jobs they want from the start of their journey.

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Nah, the problem is the story. In order to play the game as intended, the 1-30 "class" came directly from 1.0
All the other jobs were introduced "at 30" but everything introduced after HW starts at a later level for precisely the reason that people don't want to start at level 1 and grind it again.

What SHOULD be happening is SE removes the entire class/job road cone, just split off all the "classes" entirely. If a player selects a White Mage, or a Black Mage or a Pictomancer from the creation screen, they should just be given it at level 1, and have the entire "job story" experience all the other classes/jobs have.

Then the game should just use a "Role" Experience after that, so if you complete a class or job to level 30, you can acquire any other job or class in that role at that level at that time. So if you get to level 50 you can acquire it at level 50, if you acquire it at level 30 you acquire it at level 30. If you get to level 90 you can acquire everything at level 90. But it has to be the same role (Eg melee or ranged, or healer, etc) You still have to do the job quests to unlock the things that doing the job quests do, but you don't have to sit there and grind endlessly for new jobs.

That is the simplest way of doing it. But that would still require a 1-90 job quest set for everyone, and as we've seen we basically seen no job quests for anything after stormblood.

I think the better approach would be to separate player level and job level and use the new player level to scale your stats to the legacy content. This way you could retain all of your job kit even at low levels.

Come on, do it, CBU3! I want to use all of my kit in the game, not in like only 10% of the game.

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Originally Posted by genuine_stranger

I think the better approach would be to separate player level and job level and use the new player level to scale your stats to the legacy content. This way you could retain all of your job kit even at low levels.

Come on, do it, CBU3! I want to use all of my kit in the game, not in like only 10% of the game.

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I just personally find it weird an awkward that every expansion, you don't have much time leveling your new job, 10-20 levels is hardly anything, I feel like im getting a free job close to max level, I love leveling and seeing the words Level up and music playing, like I am accomplishing my goal to getting to max level.

I'm pretty sure 1.0 era did that Player Level and Weapon Level.

Starting at high level is more fun. I don't see any benefit to starting lower but it wouldn't bother me if players could start at level 1 on any class.

i agree, nothing feels worse then being told you have to do 700 hrs of MSQ (that you could/will be shunned for skipping) just to play the job that fits your personality, the jobs should al be accessible after oy have access to all 3 starter city's and have received your first job stone..
or better yet:
let us start as what we want to play,
add a updated job quest to those that need it and leave the original job quest for those that pick it up the traditional way, bam alt replay value.

I personally think everything should start at lv 1, but that's because I enjoy leveling. I however understand why they don't do that.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

i agree, nothing feels worse then being told you have to do 700 hrs of MSQ (that you could/will be shunned for skipping) just to play the job that fits your personality, the jobs should al be accessible after oy have access to all 3 starter city's and have received your first job stone..
or better yet:
let us start as what we want to play,
add a updated job quest to those that need it and leave the original job quest for those that pick it up the traditional way, bam alt replay value.

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Yeah, that's how I feel about jobs being more or less "Expansion Gated", All jobs minus Ishgard jobs are in one of the three nations, so why not go all the way and make them ARR accessible. And in terms of SE getting money from Story skips, most people are using that so they can get to the latest content with their buddies. New Jobs is less of a reason to fork over real money just to try the new job.

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Originally Posted by Brian25

"rehaul tons of systems because leveling is time consuming"

You do realize that they could just speed up leveling lol, and that by shrinking the amount of levels you need does not in any way mean it'll be faster, they could just make each level take longer.

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Should have thought of that before copying the unsustainable leveling system other mmos used for archaic reasons. Have said this for WoW also. If they so must have that 10 level grind, then make it so that 50 or something is the max level, permanent. Then when a new expansion rolls out downlevel everyone within the last 10 levels down to 40, and lower the ilvl on all gear.

That way they can easily reuse the same stat weights that they already have. Doesn't have to cram more random stuff onto classes for no reason. Preserve the quality of the past content. Easier time balancing since they no longer have to readjust everything since stuff that worked at 50 is broken at 60 and so on.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Could just be me, but I like having everything on the same playing field in terms of leveling.

AST/DRK/MCH- Starts at 30
RDM/SAM- 50
GNB/DNC- 60
RPR/SGE- 70
VPR/PCT- 80

Its just all over the place and I feel like all jobs starting at the same level and make them more obtainable by starting at 30.

30 to me ( or at most 50) is a sweet spot, still within ARR and players can play the jobs they want from the start of their journey.

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I agree I think they should make some starter jobs for the other classes and a bare bones story for them so you can functionally play the class you want from the start.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

I personally think everything should start at lv 1, but that's because I enjoy leveling. I however understand why they don't do that.

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It was fun when they added Blue Mage. Hopefully Beastmaster will bring a similar experience.

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Originally Posted by genuine_stranger

I think the better approach would be to separate player level and job level and use the new player level to scale your stats to the legacy content. This way you could retain all of your job kit even at low levels.

Come on, do it, CBU3! I want to use all of my kit in the game, not in like only 10% of the game.

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I actually really like this idea. However, I would make it so you still slowly unlock your kit.

The main thing I dislike about picking up new expansion jobs, is they fill your bars immediately with the entire kit and it's super overwhelming.

Starting at Level 1 but having the armory bonus to quickly level up and be slowly introduced to the kit gradually making it more digestible would be a great design decision.

As a small bonus to this, having players go through lower-level content again albeit for a short time will improve queues in that content as well.

I think they should start at 1 personally. It sucks trying to learn something like Viper from 80 when they throw a billion abilities at you that all have a Yu-gi-oh card worth of text on them. At least give us the option to start at 1, or allow us to reset jobs to 1.

They should have full kits by 50, preferably earlier to not make leveling boring (it still is because you can ignore all the mechanics)

I agree, every 2 levels don't need a story quest behind it to make leveling fun.

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Originally Posted by Kelg

I think they should start at 1 personally. It sucks trying to learn something like Viper from 80 when they throw a billion abilities at you that all have a Yu-gi-oh card worth of text on them. At least give us the option to start at 1, or allow us to reset jobs to 1.

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I'm for this as well. Going through 90% of the game to unlock pictomancer as a new player isn't the idea of fun. Unfortunately some job quests are locked behind expansion locations so this will never happen unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

They should have full kits by 50, preferably earlier to not make leveling boring (it still is because you can ignore all the mechanics)

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Was just about to say this. The problem with levelling is that so many jobs don't have a complete kit until level 70. 50 should be when our gameplay loop is fully unlocked and everything after should be mostly supplementary abilities and upgrades to existing ones.

You level so fast that you'll hitting 50 half way thru ARR. I agree that they need to overhaul the system but I think they have to crunch the numbers again first bc we're getting into bigger numbers kinda fast.

Part of the problem of MMOs. Level 50 used to have tons of abilities back in ARR because it was the max but as the level cap increased, abilities were removed, jobs were redesigned, everything got spread out.
It's part of the reason why I'm on team, end levelling try something else from now on.

It would be a wardrobe nightmare if I had to keep digging up old pre level 80 sets just to level a new class. I like knowing I can just dump anything level 80 and under and never have to worry about it again. And after everything is leveled tin DT, maybe do the same for level 90 and under.