Can we have more of Erenville please? (slight MSQ Spoilers)

I know it's already been kind of hinted at, but I hope that the writers keep Erenville in the story! He is a well written character and I feel like his future goals can very well align with those of the WoL. I'd love it if he could join our group in post-patch content and maybe even future expansions?

PLEASE?

Best I can do is more Wuk Lamat.

But yes, agreed. He didn't get the screen time I wanted him to get in Dawntrail, I sure hope they aren't just going to shelve him now, he has potential.

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Originally Posted by BakoolJaJa

He didn't get the screen time I wanted him to get in Dawntrail

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Goes for most of the characters in Dawntrail. I was surprised Krile's part was so small, they practically fit her entire subplot into the last 20 minutes of the MSQ.

If his invitation to travel together at the end of the MSQ was an empty bait by SE I'm gonna be quite disappointed. You can't dangle an adventure with possibly the best new NPC in front of us only to say "lol jk :)".

So yes, I totally agree! Please give Erenville more involvement in the future.

I agree. More Erenville please.

Erenville is the only good thing to come out of this (but technically he's from EW so not sure it counts). He's the only one that felt like a real, independent person with thoughts and feelings of his own. I'm guessing he developed an immunity to Wukie's mind control field in childhood, it's why he denies being her friend, he knows what's up.

It's okay, Erenville, let's escape together!

No thanks, I've had my fill. Give him an offscreen adventure with Lyse, please.

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Originally Posted by BakoolJaJa

He didn't get the screen time I wanted him to get in Dawntrail,

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He was like maybe second to Wuk Lamat if not tied. He got an entire wild west zone with JUST him. He was the narrator of the entire expansion. He got to jump ahead of Krile and steal the spotlight.

You cannot. You shall have Wuk Ramato.

Please. I want to go on random adventures with him. Not Wuk Lamat. He doesn’t suck the life and relevancy out of all the characters around him the way she does. Nor does the plot have random contrivances half-baked or tossed into it just to prop him up as a character. If anything, he got the shaft in Dawntrail. Both him and Krile.


The Wild West section of the MSQ was my favorite part of Dawntrail because that was what I had in mind when thinking of a “low stakes, laid back, brand new adventure”: journeying somewhere with another character to basically sightsee on the way to said character’s home town (and planned reunion with family), but then my character is suddenly pulled into and wrapped up in some low stakes, crazy shenanigans with a kid trying to exonerate his friends from the lies of a dirty deputy. There was comedy and it was just an easy-going adventure that was quickly resolved without being overly drawn out.


Whoever is complaining that Erenville is a 2nd Wuk Lamat because he got half of a zone to himself (not even the full one, since the plot forced us to drag Wuk back to Texas with us to create the Wild Bull Doom Train) must have been playing a different version of Dawntrail than me. Because imagine saying Erenville was a 2nd Wuk when Wuk got basically all five of the other zones to herself while also black-holing any and all characters around her. Blows my mind.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Nor does the plot have random contrivances half-baked or tossed into it just to prop him up as a character.

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He was just a gleaner, they contrived an entirely new backstory just to cram him into Dawntrail. Where he doesn't fit at all with his accent.

He deserved more screentime than Wuk Lamat...

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

He was like maybe second to Wuk Lamat if not tied. He got an entire wild west zone with JUST him. He was the narrator of the entire expansion.

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He has less than 1/3rd of Wuk's dialog.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

He was like maybe second to Wuk Lamat if not tied. He got an entire wild west zone with JUST him. He was the narrator of the entire expansion. He got to jump ahead of Krile and steal the spotlight.

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And yet he and Krile combined don't even reach half the voiced lines Wuk Lamat does. Nor does that wild west zone revolve entirely around him. In fact, it's the only time in the entirety of Dawntrail our character actually gets to do something. How convenient when one certain character isn't on screen, everyone else gets to breath a little.

For reference sake. Which of their respective voiced dialogue are listed below:

Wuk Lamat: 647
Erenville: 160
Krile: 118

Him being the narrator artificially bloats this count too.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

And yet he and Krile combined don't even reach half the voiced lines Wuk Lamat does. Nor does that wild west zone revolve entirely around him. In fact, it's the only time in the entirety of Dawntrail our character actually gets to do something. How convenient when one certain character isn't on screen, everyone else gets to breath a little.

For reference sake. Which of their respective voiced dialogue are listed below:

Wuk Lamat: 647
Erenville: 160
Krile: 118

Him being the narrator artificially bloats this count too.

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Why are you only counting voiced dialogue instead of all dialogue when considering the involvement of characters?

Also, remember how the 6.1-6.5 story was all about Zero, who wasn't even in 6.0? I'll add my proverbial wager that the 7.1-7.5 storylines will focus primarily on Krile and Erenville.

Please god yes, the final scene with him and his mother almost brought me to tears, after so much filler and fluff it felt like such a real scene. You could tell after not seeing her he didn't want to see her go, simulacrum or not, but knew what had to be done, then she convinced him to go follow his dreams and pick up where she left off.

He feels like an actual character, hopefully he'll pick up a job stone next expansion and we can have him aid us in combat.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Why are you only counting voiced dialogue instead of all dialogue when considering the involvement of characters?

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Including all dialogue brings the tally up to Wuk 7k words, Erenville 2k, Krile 1.3k.

I was so sad. Here we were having a date with our beautiful bunny boy husbando, and then boom back to Wuk Lamat's adventure. I just wanted a vacation with my bunny boy, with Krile along as a support of course, but that can only ever be a dream... I hope he comes along in another expac to make up for this expac, because we need to make up for lost times. We barely get to hear him talk, but the intro dialogue for each zone were pretty great though. I hope to hear more from him in the patches.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

He was just a gleaner, they contrived an entirely new backstory just to cram him into Dawntrail. Where he doesn't fit at all with his accent.

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I listen to this game in Japanese, where there is no forced or out of place cringe accents. Seems like an English audio exclusive “issue”. Is that the best defense of your argument you have? Or is it simply you wanted Krile to be the expansion narrator? It makes more sense for it to be Erenville since he is from the New World originally; though Krile wouldn’t have been a bad choice. I’m shocked the writers didn’t make it Wuk Lamat considering how much she dominates Dawntrail everywhere else.

Secondly, the plot does not have forced contrivances to prop him up as a character. You must be confusing him with the Blackhole Sue that is Wuk Lamat. The dude literally decided to go see his mom again before the Dome appears and he gets wrapped up in that drama. And despite his significantly less lines of dialogue compared to Wuk, he still had ten times the character. Just say you don’t like him as a character instead of trying to make up a nonsensical argument.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Also, remember how the 6.1-6.5 story was all about Zero, who wasn't even in 6.0? I'll add my proverbial wager that the 7.1-7.5 storylines will focus primarily on Krile and Erenville.

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That’ll be better than 6.x. My issue with 6.x is that it was very clearly an anime filler arc, and I doubt we’ll ever see any of those characters ever again (Zero or Golbez—I’m well aware Azdaja made a small cameo in Dawntrail). Which makes it seem like almost a waste compared to previous .x patches where old expansions were tied up and new ones built up. 6.x would have been better served spending more than three quests building up Wuk Lamat and this succession rite than us gallivanting around the Thirteenth if they are going to just abandon that arc in its entirety.

Please no. Why was Krile almost a non entity when from my perspective the only reason the WoL would have even wanted to go was 1: help a friend (Krile) and 2: actual low risk adventure/exploration for the first time in what was likely literal years. Number 2 never happens, and 1 is basically a 10 minute throw away sub plot that is more there just to be a plot maguffin not anything meaningful.

We didn't need more Erenville. We needed more WoL, more scions, and less everything else. Especially less Wuk Lamat.

Erenville seems like a good fit for the coming beastmaster.

Right when you enter the wild west... that was THE best part of the MSQ. You and Eren vs the world...then WL shows up again... was so sick of it at this point.

Agreed.

Also give the man a more reasonable bag for being out and about, he doesn't always need his "everything I own + extra boots" bag!

Hug the bunbun!

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Erenville seems like a good fit for the coming beastmaster.

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That's my thought too, and he'll have have a modified version of it for Trusts later.

I was so excited to get to have some alone time with Erenville in the 4th zone... ONLY FOR THAT PART OF THE STORY TO BE ABOUT WUK LAMAT TOO.

Don't get me wrong I like Wuk Lamat, but there were parts where Erenville, Krile and G'raha should have gotten much more time and they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Erenville seems like a good fit for the coming beastmaster.

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Should he pick up a jobstone (to me it's fine if he doesn't, I don't mind it either way), I could see an archer type of class for him, too, given that his mother was said to be an excetional archer if I recall correctly.
There's also chances we could get a new physical ranged job next expansion. That might also be an option for Erenville, depending on what it is.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

I was so excited to get to have some alone time with Erenville in the 4th zone... ONLY FOR THAT PART OF THE STORY TO BE ABOUT WUK LAMAT TOO.

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I also wish we could have had more time with him ;_;

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

I was so excited to get to have some alone time with Erenville in the 4th zone... ONLY FOR THAT PART OF THE STORY TO BE ABOUT WUK LAMAT TOO.

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Zone 4 onwards should've been Erenville's story and Krile could've had some focus on zone 5 onwards too, it honestly feels like they've been robbed.

Yeah, Erenville was a joy throughout, and he got way too little focus, just like Krile. I hope he becomes a permanent companion and part of the standard line-up; I'll always be glad to see him. He has a personality and his own thoughts, I like his calmer personality paired with his own opinions and sense of humour. And miraculously, despite all the writing flaws in this expansion, he still feels like the same person we met in Endwalker, and he keeps some of his thoughts to himself only to show glimpses of them to catch. And we get to know him better over time as he starts to consider us his friend. Like a real person! More of that again please. It used to be a writing standard in 14, but now it really makes him stand out all the more.

Like for many, the wild west section with him was my highlight of this expansion, just two equal companions going on cool adventures together (like what I'd expected of Dawntrail's early part in the first place).
Only for it to be cut short by the same old. But he holds his own in the serious "everything is terrible and the world is at stake" scenarios too, when he gets the chance to be present. That's very valuable too, he's not a character I like but will always leave at home for the serious stakes stuff like Tataru. I want him in the actual hero party.

The only reason the Wild West section is the best part of the expansion is because Wuk Lamat wasn't there. You weren't two equal adventurers, you were a guy who literally can't fight and has clearly been stated to have no combat prowess at all multiple times, and the WoL most likely the most powerful living mortal. I don't dislike Erenville, but he has an actual job, is not worth anything in combat, and frankly I never needed a guide until Dawntrail insisted I did. He is not a Scion and doesn't serve any actual purpose outside of being a foil for everyone's favorite Wookie and a source of plot drama in the final two zones. There is no reason for him to continue as a recurring character. He barely had a reason to exist in this plot.

Seriously, the Wild West section was not good. You are forced to wait for mounts, even though there is no reason you couldn't have gone on foot. You can't just deal with the bandits for fear of "the law". When has that ever been an issue before for the WoL? You don't even get the satisfaction of taking out the bandit leader, you just stand there and watch someone else do it. Also on the "Law" point, literal Duels can be used to make legal decisions (????) and at least one character is shown to blatantly break the law and is let off. Why am I worried about "the law" again? It is better than most of Dawntrail, but that is a really low bar. It would have been called out as bad filler in Endwalker or Shadowbringers. Heck it would have been called out as bad filler in Heansward too, and that expac had some filler.

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Originally Posted by Karkarov

I don't dislike Erenville, but he has an actual job, is not worth anything in combat, and frankly I never needed a guide until Dawntrail insisted I did.

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You say that while completely ignoring that almost all throughout ARR to Endwalker we always had someone in the party or at least an NPC who was somewhat familiar with the zones we were in, be it Ishgard, Kugane, Ala Mhigo, Sharlayan or all the sub-regions. The only difference is that they weren't a guide in name, whereas in Tural none of the Scions were familiar with it, so Erenville who was born there and knew both the Scions and Tural was a good choice.

I won't argue with you on MSQ writing, I personally enjoyed my time during the quest with Erenville.

The only thing I couldn’t reconcile were the two accents of Icelandic and American it was just odd between them both.

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Originally Posted by PaulH

The only thing I couldn’t reconcile were the two accents of Icelandic and American it was just odd.

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Yeah I was expecting his mom to have an accent like him, that at least would have made somewhat sense since he was always rather withdrawn from others and she was both his mother and mentor.

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Originally Posted by Karkarov

The only reason the Wild West section is the best part of the expansion is because Wuk Lamat wasn't there. You weren't two equal adventurers, you were a guy who literally can't fight and has clearly been stated to have no combat prowess at all multiple times, and the WoL most likely the most powerful living mortal. I don't dislike Erenville, but he has an actual job, is not worth anything in combat, and frankly I never needed a guide until Dawntrail insisted I did.
(snip for post length)

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Oh yeah, we're not equals in combat, but as people and as characters, in the social dynamic. We each have our specialties, and I'm neither babysitting nor being sidelined, we just hang out together because we want to. That's such a breath of fresh air.

And of course the quest line is silly and has nonsensical contrivances and we should have gotten the train right, and the law/rubber bullet aspect is pretty funny too considering what previous content in the game was like, not least of all ARR. But it was a fun diversion in the moment, doing things a different way just because. I was okay with that for the sake of fun, and I enjoyed the interactions.

For where it was set in the overall story, it would almost have bothered me: We were just yanked away from the Golden City, arguably our only reason to even be on this whole continent to begin with, for no good reason, and we've just seen an ominous cutscene on how that's being punished because now someone else is there with villainous intentions, and things will go badly, and that's when a hero would actually be needed. But I'd had so enough at that point and was so frustrated with the main quest; I was talking to my friend at the time and said something to the effect of, I don't care anymore, let the world burn, we'll play tourist now. And that's exactly what it was good for, and it worked for me. And then it got yanked away again. So it absolutely shines in contrast.
But I still like the character, and thought he was good in all the zones besides.

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Originally Posted by Yegu

Goes for most of the characters in Dawntrail. I was surprised Krile's part was so small, they practically fit her entire subplot into the last 20 minutes of the MSQ.

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Build up from Heavensward turned into a 20 minute storyline. Might as well of not had Krile there in the first place.

they told us krile and thancred would get big roles in DT.... yeah you need a magnifying glas for it
we got a lot of thancred over the years but i'm heavily disappointed about krile. instead we got wuk lamat saying the same things over and over and over again.

erenville is kinda the same. more of him would be nice

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Erenville is the only good thing to come out of this

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I got to ride a romantic Gondola with Raha.

So umm. No. :<

Although I did enjoy my time with the fussy bunbun. (Seriously imagine your mom calling you that in front of your co-workers)

I honestly don't know what to make out of the info that vieras call each other bunbun. (Not that I mind it, not at all.)
(Funnily enough, it's an invention by the English localisation. In the Japanese original she doesn't give him any kind of nickname apparently and the EN team just added it to better convey the tone of their interaction.)

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Originally Posted by Mondschnee

Should he pick up a jobstone (to me it's fine if he doesn't, I don't mind it either way), I could see an archer type of class for him, too, given that his mother was said to be an excetional archer if I recall correctly.
There's also chances we could get a new physical ranged job next expansion. That might also be an option for Erenville, depending on what it is.

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I'm curious about this. Cahciua said he was never good at fighting and I reckon that she has definitely tried to teach him archery since it's her specialty. So perhaps this is precisely why he will not become an archer but instead do his own thing. Beastmaster would reflect him as a person, his strength and his passions. It would be a good way to differentiate himself from his mother and forge his own path/identity as a traveler and adventurer.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I got to ride a romantic Gondola with Raha.

So umm. No. :<

Although I did enjoy my time with the fussy bunbun. (Seriously imagine your mom calling you that in front of your co-workers)

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Hmm, I'm not sure I'm ready to forgive G'raha for convincing me to come here in the first place and then even have to audacity to not come along. Like hello? That's not what we agreed on? He's on the couch for the time being.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I honestly don't know what to make out of the info that vieras call each other bunbun. (Not that I mind it, not at all.)
(Funnily enough, it's an invention by the English localisation. In the Japanese original she doesn't give him any kind of nickname apparently and the EN team just added it to better convey the tone of their interaction.)

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I.. really don't like it? It's not as cute as the writers think it is.

I think it's just weird with all the references to various character's animal characteristics, cause.. that was never a thing before? Like I thought people in this world just did not care/notice because its normal to have catgirls or whatever everywhere or that maybe it's considered impolite to comment on.

But suddenly it's a thing. I don't know, it comes off a bit demeaning. Are we gonna call Y'shtola a kittycat now? I'm sure she'd love that.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

I.. really don't like it? It's not as cute as the writers think it is.

I think it's just weird with all the references to various character's animal characteristics, cause.. that was never a thing before? Like I thought people in this world just did not care/notice because its normal to have catgirls or whatever everywhere or that maybe it's considered impolite to comment on.

But suddenly it's a thing. I don't know, it comes off a bit demeaning. Are we gonna call Y'shtola a kittycat now? I'm sure she'd love that.

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I agree with this; I'd always enjoyed how every included race was seen as part of mankind, and these features were just something one had, and then conversely the mix-up on the First, where the distribution of who was part of the in-group was different from the Source. A few ancients in Elpis notice because it's different to them, while others just see us as the spitting image of Azem and don't even comment on the ears etc. And in the modern age, there is no difference at all; there's only regional politics, and it's shown as exactly the arbitrary thing it is. In the end, we're all humanity, hyur, catgirls, sahagin, amaljaa, ancients, fussy little bunbuns. So while this may be a line that'll be quoted on social media to great amusement for months to come, I also have to be a spoilsport and say it doesn't fit the world and feels jarring.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

I.. really don't like it? It's not as cute as the writers think it is.

I think it's just weird with all the references to various character's animal characteristics, cause.. that was never a thing before? Like I thought people in this world just did not care/notice because its normal to have catgirls or whatever everywhere or that maybe it's considered impolite to comment on.

But suddenly it's a thing. I don't know, it comes off a bit demeaning. Are we gonna call Y'shtola a kittycat now? I'm sure she'd love that.

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Yeah I see what you mean about it being considered impolite. Though tbh it makes more sense to me that they notice those features. To me not noticing them always gave me the feeling of disney characters such as Mickey owning a dog when his best friend Pluto is also a dog and yet nobody seemed to even be aware of the paradox.

Btw this is not me saying they are somehow lesser than other races, or are more beastly or anything. What I mean is that if you live in a world where rabbits and cats exist then it seems illogical to me that people wouldn't be able to denominate rabbit/cat features on a person in a way that is purely destricptive/without negative connotations. Rabbit ears don't make anybody less of a person but they are as a completely neutral matter of fact rabbit ears. I don't think relating to those features/talking about them would be inherently impolite or demeaning regardless of context. I completely agree that calling Y'shtola "kittycat" would be degrading but imo that's already a completely different context than, e.g., acknowledging the presence of cat ears. I think it's really about how, when and why it's said.
(Sorry for writing such a lengthy text on that point. I'm just worried that it might come off wrong, otherwise. orz I absolutely respect your opinion that you don't like the animal reference.)

I can see how a viera/miqo'te/au ra/hrothgar might not be excited if a stranger/acquaintance referred to them wrt their features because in that context/given the level proximity between those two people it would probably come off as degoratory. I can kind of see that with close friends it might be perceived differently depending on the context though because I don't think animal-related nicknames/pet names are inherently degrading.

But anyway, at least it's only "half-canon". You could choose Japanese canon over English canon and reject the bunbun reference that way.