Was Dawntrail, Yawntrail? (Spoilers)

TL; DR - Yes, but it wasn't all bad. :/? :)? :| 5/10 too much Wuk

SPOILERS - This is gonna be a long winded review of Dawntrail by me, an ardent critic of the narrative direction and character portrayals of FFXIV for the past few years.

All in all, to put it mildly, this expansion was weighed down heavily by its starring character, Wuk Lamat. Never before has a major NPC been so forcefully thrust into the spotlight, so much so that they were at risk of becoming a Blackhole Sue. Even when not on screen, Wuk Lamat was the subject of nearly all dialogue, while having roughly 10x more dialogue (and this is an understatement) than any other major character in the entire expansion. This is a serious problem, and they had better never do it again, especially not with such a untested and non-serious character. There was only one segment of the MSQ for which she was not present, and that was Erenville and the WoL's Wild West Shaaloani trip. All in all, the story wasn't bad, but it started slow and stayed slow and felt slower than it was due to this heavy heavy dumb ass of a character.

Wuk Lamat is not a relatable person. She succeeds by merely wanting too. And when that's not enough (in DT it is always enough), the WOL and friends dig her out of what little trouble she does get in. The antagonists stop their murderous rampage just to give her the chance to beat them later.

Wuk aside, the plot had it shares of, "Why?" and "How?" and "holes." Like, why did the populace that was largely indifferent or against Wuk suddenly change their opinion of her without witnessing her deeds during the Rite? It was a journey, after all, not broadcast to the populace at large. What reason do they have to change their opinion of her by the time the rite was finished?

Why did Koana turn down his intellect and immediately start simping for her by around the 92 quests?

How was Wuk able to become strong enough to beat not just Bakool Ja Ja but all of Bakool's henchmen without some sort of training or battle readiness? She goes from being kidnapped in one scene to just a few scenes later being able to take him on like he's nothing.

After the rite was over, and the story was firmly in the realm of, "The Scions should handle this." did they keep taking orders from Wuk?

Why was no one curious enough to even inspect the gate or try to open it the first time we went to The Golden City? We got there, incidentally opened the bridge, and then left. Like that place is a big deal. But the rite was over so...? No Scion was like, "I'ma go investigate that gate." They just sorta putzed off to do whatever.

Why did the Interdimensional Fusion happen in Erenville's hometown and not locally around the gate? You're telling me that it had to happen an entire continent away from where the gate is at? What?

How come Sphene couldn't tell us OG Sphene's favorite food? Does she not remember what food tastes like? The Endless as computer system sustained souls could still taste the simulated food, just not the living, real food. She should have been able to answer that easily off of memory alone.

So Krile is descended from Southern Seas Lalafells who didn't call themselves that, who fled the Umbral Calamity of Ice and wound up on Alexandria's shard. Given how long ago that was, does this mean Krile has a shard soul or a Source soul? Obviously the first generation Lalas to go to that Shard had Source souls, but what of their descendants?

Beyond that, it's hilarious to me that we turned right around from Endwalker into the opposite theme. "Everybody dies some day! And that's OK!" And as good guys we're told, "Living at the expense of someone else is wrong." Knowing full well that we live at the expense of the Ancient Ascians and the original, natural world.

Dawntrail's story was also quick to stop focusing on that The Endless weren't just after aether, but after souls. That was a weird way to start rephrasing what they were after. Like they were trying a last minute backpedal to make Sphene and the Alexandrians more sympathetic.

All in all on a scale of 1/10, I'd rate things in Dawntrail thus:

Music - 8/10 - Not Soken's best, but some honestly good tracks. Kept my attention in places I otherwise was second monitoring.

Story - 4/10 - Really terrible until the Rite of Succession ends. Even after that, though, there's too much Wuk Pandering. Did we really have to stop every other quest for her to spout some Dattebayo Love and Peace drivel? Heated up at Train scene. The last 3 levels story portions are why it's not a 1/10.

Gameplay - 7/10 - Of the jobs I've played to 100, it seems like some of them aren't too bad off. Namely Machinist. New jobs seem to be being enjoyed as well. More than that, dungeon bosses actually threw me for a loop a few times (I opted out of Trust usage most of the time to avoid having yet more Wuk forced upon me). I actually did have a lot of fun in the fights. Of course, I was rusty from lack of playing, too, so that may have had some hand in it. My Dawntrail prep consisted of me undertaking one of the most laborious, tedious grinds in FFXI for several months prior to this, so I went in as forgiving as I could possibly be. Trials were very interesting with new twists and mechanics that were not familiar to me, granted I have refused to do Ultimates or even watch them.

Zone Design - 7/10 - Really solid zones in Dawntrail, even if location names are words I will never be able to pronounce. I particularly liked Urqopacha cause of the big mountain. Mountains are nice. Also though, the blue forest, and then all of the dungeons. Solution 9 was actually kind of a let down, and doesn't really appeal to me.

Average those together, and it's a 6/10, but I have to rate it as a 5/10 because of how long it took to get to parts that I actually enjoyed. Until 95+ I was putting XIV down to play Elden Ring's DLC, and occasionally Pokemon Yellow. Enduring bad part of game to get to enjoyable part of game is pretty common in story heavy games, where that's part of the enjoyment, but if the bad part gets bad enough you may lose interest. I almost did.

If I see one more "Talk to Wuk Lamat" quest objective in my life I am going to lose my mind

You know how Marvel went downhill after Endgame?

I didn't want to believe it and fully trust the writing team, but Endwalker was it. And its going to much worst Dawntrail onwards I fear

There was far too much Wuk. There was also far too much Krill and her useless Malalla family, I'm glad we purged them.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Like, why did the populace that was largely indifferent or against Wuk suddenly change their opinion of her without witnessing her deeds during the Rite?

What reason do they have to change their opinion of her by the time the rite was finished?

Why did Koana turn down his intellect and immediately start simping for her by around the 92 quests?

How was Wuk able to become strong enough to beat not just Bakool Ja Ja but all of Bakool's henchmen without some sort of training or battle readiness?

After the rite was over, and the story was firmly in the realm of, "The Scions should handle this." did they keep taking orders from Wuk?

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I agree with the rest of your post but this part....

I'm honestly... honestly beginning to think that Wuk Lamat is unironically someone's OC at Square Enix. Same with Zero. I no longer think it's just a meme bros...

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

If I see one more "Talk to Wuk Lamat" quest objective in my life I am going to lose my mind

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Remember to smile at her, and on the odd chance the dialogue options let you be mildly contentious towards her planned course of action, she just ignores you :)

"Yawntrail" is such an overexaggeration imo. It was a slow start but I think overall it was a fine story. We seen better, yes.
But some of you make it sound like it was a 1/10 story. Alter your expectations.

DT's story is so terribly bad that I willingly went back to doing the FATE grind for the 60 Fate clears in all EW zones, because the alternative was dealing with more of that fanfiction after she got Princess Peached. We finally got to be around a character with actual development, and as soon as she got rescued, it's like a switch flipped, and everyone went back to being nothing but a background NPC in the "glorious story" that is Wuk Lamat's Adventures.

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"Yawntrail" is such an overexaggeration imo. It was a slow start but I think overall it was a fine story. We seen better, yes.
But some of you make it sound like it was a 1/10 story. Alter your expectations.

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My expectations were set at Anime Beach Episode Filler arc, as per my Signature. I expected terrible writing that had no relevance to the plot, and was nothing more than a chance for us to hang out and be friendly friends with our friends, the Scions. I did not expect a thirteen year old's fanfiction, where her "Original Character: Do not steal" became the main character of an entire expansion, turning my own character into less than a background NPC. Even the camera is refusing to acknowledge our existence.

In not so many words... yes in too many words?

I still haven't beat the game because I'm falling asleep during it.

I finished MSQ today. And I wouldn't call it Yawntrail, no. It was a chore for me. Ugly, soulsucking chore. And though it was some years since I finished various schools, I now feel like it's first day of summer holidays. I'm finally free!...

This is not how I expected the expansion to play out. Still, I'm naive enough to hope that patches will be better. Gonna skip though all WL dialogue that will ever pop, obviously.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

"Yawntrail" is such an overexaggeration imo. It was a slow start but I think overall it was a fine story. We seen better, yes.
But some of you make it sound like it was a 1/10 story. Alter your expectations.

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Yawntrail is a perfectly apt description for me. I literally fell asleep, albeit it only for a few minutes, during the Pelupelu split because of how bored I was. I don't even necessarily blame that particular narrative itself since some of the Pelu I genuinely liked. Same with the Hanu. It's just so much of the same thing without even the slightest degree of conflict became incredibly uninteresting. Made even worse with how little of it was voiced. The Moblin is where I drew the line and actively began speed reading. Every expansion has low points, even the beloved Heavensward and Shadowbringers. I've never been legitimately put to sleep by them.

On the whole, I gave Dawntrail a 5/10. The second half does enough to salvage the story into average territory but can't carry the weight of an otherwise dreadful first half.

Is that discord from the good peeps of the Endwalker thread still open for invitations?

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

"Yawntrail" is such an overexaggeration imo. It was a slow start but I think overall it was a fine story. We seen better, yes.
But some of you make it sound like it was a 1/10 story. Alter your expectations.

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I wouldn't rate it 1/10. But like....3/10? Sure. It's really REALLY below par. It hasn't just bored me, it has angered me that I wasted money on the expansion and I'm seriously considering cutting my losses and giving up on FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Is that discord from the good peeps of the Endwalker thread still open for invitations?

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It's still kicking around though I think the folks within it are mostly unsubbed. A fair few are enjoying seeing DT get negative reviews, though it wasn't surprising to them, either.

I haven't looked in on it in a minute. I'm in too many discords :(

MSQ is okay, nothing super stellar (sorta reminds me of FFXI in a way). Dungeons and Trials were very nice, though. Felt like I was actually playing a game.

A great read up, thank you. I have yet to complete MSQ so I only read as far as I had progressed but a couple of things that you pointed out and I am still reeling over and am struggling to accept that SE decided to write.

I went back and watched a youtube video of a more up to date MSQ to see what information I missed that the cast chose not to push forward at the gate to the golden city, but instead wander off. Surely I missed something. No, they simply opted there were more important things than this fabled city they had been chasing the entire expansion. This is where the nerve of IGN comparing it to One Piece actually tickles me. It's as if the strawhats sail up to Laugh Tale and then decide it isn't necessary to go any further and sail back.

The disgruntled Tuliyollal citizens discussing the prospect of leader Wuk Lamat before the promises leave to battle for their succession. The game chose to show us their doubt. Then the game shows a united crowd under leader Wuk Lamat where she hasn't done a single thing to soothe or assure the hesitant in question over her leadership. This is incredibly par for the course for WL, where she wills something, and it is so. I would say I appreciate the writer's tick in attempting to show her as an underdog where you want to root for her stakes, and then magically deleting the underdog qualities when she achieves what she wants. But I don't appreacite it, I don't view myself as the intended audience for this level of writing.

The Scion's would have faired better just being absent for an expansion, with the exception of Krile. Thancred and Urianger may as well have been cardboard cutouts of the characters that Koana was carrying around with him for all they measured up to contribute. I don't blame them for this as Koana was wittled down to only knowing how to emotionally react to whatever was going on with his sister and not much of anything else. On that note, the twins do not get a pass and should have just shipped their own cardboard cutouts with us on the ship.

I really disliked Wuk Lamat but other than that I thought it was pretty good.

Nah its not Yawntrail

It's actually Dawnfail

I think a lot of the negative feedback also comes from people who have played FF16 and realized, this team isn't all that.

I actually really loved 16, especially narratively it was the dark fantasy FF I didn't have anymore after Heavensward, as much as I adore Shadowbringers and Endwalker. Some minor pacing issues aside, I enjoyed it and I'm glad it was made; it was pretty much exactly my thing.
But now I'd be happy if everyone involved in the writing came back and wrote 14 again (a guy can dream).

I'm halfway through MSQ and I have mixed opinions so far (Currently finished Dungeon 3 in Dawntrail).

Was Wuk Lamat bad? No. Could she have been written better? Yes. Wuk Lamat is a good character, sheletered princess who develops and eventually leads a nation. I didn't like her much at first but she kind of grew on me to be a more likeable person. I just think she was written poorly. The story's execution didn't help either. The story's writing felt really weak at times. I did not feel as connected to the story as previous ones and there was a lack of emotional investment for me due to the lackluster writing. I did get what the writers were trying to convey. I just think it was done poorly. There's a lot of things that the writers get that we as the players don't know or are aware of, and I think that miscommunication really shows in the writing. Other times, it feels like they're repeating the same points over and over for no particular reason. We don't have the same insight because we are not the writers. Some reveals come out so leftfield that it's hard to relate. I think that is something the previous writers take extra care when writing.

The comedy and humor felt a bit forced at first and very unnatural, but it has slowly gotten better as I progressed through the MSQ. I sometimes get a weird impression from Wuk Lamat's voice actor feeling slightly monotone too and wasn't able to fully portray the emotions of some scenes. Maybe it's just the nerves, because the voice acting seems better later on.

The music isn't bad, in fact some of the soundtracks in various zones became my favorite song choice in this expansion. However, the musical execution to the some of the cutscenes felt very lacking this time around. Poor choice of music for the vibe, or the execution and the way the music cuts off for some cutscenes felt bad / left a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe it also has to do with the writing, I'm not sure. It's such a stark contrast compared to previous expansions that it became noticeable.

For example, I'll talk about 2 particular points that had a big contrast in its storytelling to me. (Trying to avoid spoilers) -> The Instance battle in The Xobr'it Cinderfield and the follow-up cutscene before going into the Ja Tiika Heartland. The cutscenes for the opposition felt just... very rushed. Very forced. I can sympathize with the plight of the characters later on, but there's not much context before going into the second half of the zone and going through half of the story for that zone. We got a claimant's one scene flashback before we went to Ja Tiika Heartland, and I think that random flashback has such a weird dissonance to us as the reader/viewer as there's no context to anything at all. Sure, we learn about it, but we don't even see the exact details until reaching near the end of the zone. There's no context until then. The storytelling felt a little lacking.

I understand a part of the reason why this is done is because they want to make Wuk Lamat learn the importance of the next zone. After all, a big part of the story is understanding. However, I felt like this could be handled better. Maybe if there were more signs done through the storytelling. All we saw was arrogance of the claimant, not the suffering underneath it. They felt very 2-Dimensional as a character only through a lack of means to see through the lens.

As for the build-up cutscene to the Instance Battle before the third dungeon, the second cast felt a bit weak in context since that group aren't necessarily with the main party (so we have only a general understanding of their personalities and motives). However, it was understandable what they do during the cutscene due to the build-up from the previous zone and the events in the earlier part of this zone. All those things combined led to a very hype/exciting moment. We understand their motives and choices because there is sufficient build up. Although the execution to this instance battle is flawless, I felt like the writers could have done a bit better to show the motives that drive this claimant's decision beforehand to make the point far more noticeable.

There are places I really enjoyed in Dawntrail. The graphical update helped in these instances make the place look vibrant and amazing.
As for the encounters and battle design, it's an improvement from Endwalker. Endwalker encounters were... bad to say the least. The fight encounters here feels much better in Dawntrail. Though only time will tell whether that will remain true later down the line.

Overall, I like the general concept of the story and where it is headed. I am looking forward to the rest of the MSQ. My opinion of some things may change as I continue to do MSQ.

i neither hate the story nor wuk lamat. but i dislike heavily how everything is constructed around her saying the same few things over and over and over again while all the other characters stand on the sidelines with only having screentime when it helps wuk lamat.

and also all the cutscenes... its more extrem than ever.. where is the game?

I just received the keystone after doing the MSQ at the start of Yak'tel. I could do with much less Wuk. Am I disappointed? Not really because it's about what I expected from this expansion. I'm entering into it with less expectation because this was meant to be a new story and not have the buildup from several expansions of anticipation worth of wanting to see what happens next. With that said, I find myself wanting to skip a lot of the MSQ cutscenes because some of them just annoy me, but I try to watch as much as I can tolerate because I would at least like to know the gist of the story. It seems the further in I get the better it seems to be getting so I figure it's just cutscenes that are meant to build character for Wuk, but I really could care less about that. I do find myself still enjoying more than just the MSQ this time at least. Last expansion, I burned thru the MSQ so quick I stopped after finishing and only returned to keep it with the patch MSQ. I will see this through to the end but compared to the last 2 expansions, I've had much less desire to see what happens next. With that said, I will continue to play for the MSQ and hope it will lead into some thing good eventually.

[QUOTE=Vyrerus;6514715]TL; DR - Yes, but it wasn't all bad. :/? :)? :| 5/10 too much Wuk

Yes. I literally nodded off several times while doing the MSQ!

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

I'm halfway through MSQ and I have mixed opinions so far (Currently finished Dungeon 3 in Dawntrail).
...
Overall, I like the general concept of the story and where it is headed. I am looking forward to the rest of the MSQ. My opinion of some things may change as I continue to do MSQ.

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Keep playing, you're not done with Wuk Lamat. Or rather, she's not done with you.

I felt generally the same about the character when I was at where you are in the story, I neither particularly liked them nor hated them. But they did come off a bad combination of a bit overbearing, naive, and needy the way they're written, which cancelled out any endearing qualities the character may have had.

Without giving away spoilers, the second half of the story just doubles down on all of the worst tropes of Wuk Lamat in all the wrong ways.

A little further in, another Follow the NPC quest. Last expansion seemed like walking to the end with npcs following beside you, but this time it's like they really like making us trail the npcs till the dawn.

Absolutely Hate to say it but....this is the first time i was actually relieved when MSQ was over...i rly nodded off several times and not because i was tired

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Absolutely Hate to say it but....this is the first time i was actually relieved when MSQ was over...i rly nodded off several times and not because i was tired

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I, for one, didn't yawn too, too much. Mainly because when the dialogue treads the same water continuously it upsets me. Groans were had, but Groantrail doesn't rhyme at the start Q.Q Also looking at my clock and being like, "Yeah, I should just go to bed." While being on my time off... that's not how I tend to be when something's good.

No need to hate to say it, by the way. Honest critiques and feelings are more valuable than the negligent insistence by so many in this community that they just experienced a story that rivaled any of the other FFXIV stories. It's time like these that I'm reminded that the word, "fan" is just an Americanism shortening of the word, "fanatic." So I'm very glad to see your honest feelings.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Keep playing, you're not done with Wuk Lamat. Or rather, she's not done with you.

I felt generally the same about the character when I was at where you are in the story, I neither particularly liked them nor hated them. But they did come off a bad combination of a bit overbearing, naive, and needy the way they're written, which cancelled out any endearing qualities the character may have had.

Without giving away spoilers, the second half of the story just doubles down on all of the worst tropes of Wuk Lamat in all the wrong ways.

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I honestly don't know how they managed to make her even more annoying in the second arc but they really succeeded. She got rid of her "character flaw" and just full-on becomes a moralizing AI who can only ever, ever talk about the power of friendship and understanding others. I seriously never felt more disrespected as an adult, but joke's on me for actually watching and reading any of the story even after 6.x.

The way Wuk Lamat becomes a vehicle for pace disrupting MMO shenanigans "Please help me delay the MSQ by teaching me your ways and problems!" is criminal to both Wuk and the player. Living Memory is screwed from the beginning narratively because of their "map reveal" structure. We needed to get to LM much earlier to do most of that stuff and come back later to wreck it. But instead they shoved everything into the last 2 hours and robbed the moment of most of its impact. Using Wuk Lamat to force us to dwell there and create fake impact feels unnatural, hence why people are frustrated with the ending and Wuk. It's poorly executed.

This is by far the worst expansion and some of the most atrocious video game writing I've seen. For the first time in years, I've considered cancelling my subscription. I haven't even made it far in the expansion and I've just got no will to play the game, there just doesn't seem to be any story hook to draw me in and honestly that was a problem even in the patches leading up to the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

"Yawntrail" is such an overexaggeration imo. It was a slow start but I think overall it was a fine story. We seen better, yes.
But some of you make it sound like it was a 1/10 story. Alter your expectations.

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No. I paid for this. Why am I gonna go easy on them just because its supposed to be a brand new story? The entire time I played this game I have been nothing but hopeful and full of praises for them. And now it seems like I got punished for having faith in the dev team and for having hope that this is gonna be another fun adventure.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

The way Wuk Lamat becomes a vehicle for pace disrupting MMO shenanigans "Please help me delay the MSQ by teaching me your ways and problems!" is criminal to both Wuk and the player. Living Memory is screwed from the beginning narratively because of their "map reveal" structure. We needed to get to LM much earlier to do most of that stuff and come back later to wreck it. But instead they shoved everything into the last 2 hours and robbed the moment of most of its impact. Using Wuk Lamat to force us to dwell there and create fake impact feels unnatural, hence why people are frustrated with the ending and Wuk. It's poorly executed.

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Huh, we agree on something for once, and I like this observation as well. It kind of worked in the first half in a good way, the clumping of the first few zones into dense, "quick" MSQ progression, but that ending zone was definitely rushed. Leaving us to wonder what will be done with it, and if in later expansions, ending zones are just gonna be plot dumps and then forgotten mostly instantly.