Why are alisaie and alphinaud in Dawntrail?

Like ok no problem, i get the devs want us to see familiar faces... but why?

Well, they're very popular, unfortunately lol.

At least as far as I've seen, though, (which isn't much, tbf, I've been taking my time) they haven't been featured much. They're there, but not actually doing much. Which may leave you more confused about their inclusion, I guess, but... otherwise, it's probably just to fill out Trusts.

I mean imagine if there where not in it and you had even more of Wuk Lamat to suffer through, at this point I welcome anyone would it be Scion or not, enemy or friend, anyone as any even smallest fraction of time without Wuk Lamat is precious.

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Like ok no problem, i get the devs want us to see familiar faces... but why?

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To nod, encourage Wuk Lamat and make her seem super duper awesome, and be in the promo material to jebait you into thinking the Dawntrail story has any sense of cohesion.
Seriously- they did nothing. Worse, they're so mischaracterized in DT that 95% of the time I can't tell which twin is which.
And you know it's true, because the real Alisae would immediately throw a fit if she realized she was sounding 100% like Alphinaud.
Give me my twins back SE... these are skinwalkers. Where are they?!

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Originally Posted by CottonC

I mean imagine if there where not in it and you had even more of Wuk Lamat to suffer through, at this point I welcome anyone would it be Scion or not, enemy or friend, anyone as any even smallest fraction of time without Wuk Lamat is precious.

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I would have been ok with this though. Give me a whole cast of new characters to worry about as im taking my time in the MSQ.

They are just their to learn from how another country handles matters, Tural, and then take that information to go and help the Garleans on the relief effort. Nothing more.

So they can ask "Where's Wuk Lamat?" when Wuk Lamat isn't on screen.

https://i.imgur.com/samdv0y.png

All the scions are just background dressing now. This is why people wanted the characters retired.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

All the scions are just background dressing now. This is why people wanted the characters retired.

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Most of who we consider to be the core Scions were no more than set dressing in nearly every stage of the story before Shadowbringers (except arguably post-HW). If anything, this is a return to form lol.

I mean they should be. But the twins in Dawntrail are just souless husk with their names

What happened to Alisaie's sass and brashfulness? And Alphinaud with his political knowledge and experience on nation states had literally nothing to say about Tural

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Like ok no problem, i get the devs want us to see familiar faces... but why?

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I barely saw any of Alphinaud and Red Alphinaud, I do feel like it was a familiar face thing, since they really had little part in moving the plot along.

they gotta fill out the trust parties. Thancred, Estinien and Urianger were also pretty uneeded

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Originally Posted by fioravictorine

I mean they should be. But the twins in Dawntrail are just souless husk with their names

What happened to Alisaie's sass and brashfulness? And Alphinaud with his political knowledge and experience on nation states had literally nothing to say about Tural

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What happened to their friendship with the WoL? They didn't even bother checking on us, or even each other, Krile, Erenville, etc. after the first dungeon. As someone who has had both RP and RL friends do shit like that, it honestly freaking hurt. For a game about the power of friendship, they seem to have dropped the ball on showing one maintained.

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Originally Posted by fioravictorine

I mean they should be. But the twins in Dawntrail are just souless husk with their names

What happened to Alisaie's sass and brashfulness? And Alphinaud with his political knowledge and experience on nation states had literally nothing to say about Tural

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Specially considering that learning about Turali culture, political affairs, etc is literally the reason they tagged along. They were never in on it for the rite of succession or the city of gold.

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Originally Posted by KazukoHimura

What happened to their friendship with the WoL? They didn't even bother checking on us, or even each other, Krile, Erenville, etc. after the first dungeon. As someone who has had both RP and RL friends do shit like that, it honestly freaking hurt. For a game about the power of friendship, they seem to have dropped the ball on showing one maintained.

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They basically took a singular personality trait from Alisaie, which is her respect/hero worship/love of the WoL, went "That's her personality. Let's direct that at Wuk, completely unearned." And Alphinaud didn't even get a personality trait. He just existed.

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Originally Posted by Isala

They basically took a singular personality trait from Alisaie, which is her respect/hero worship/love of the WoL, went "That's her personality. Let's direct that at Wuk, completely unearned."

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That was honestly just...wrong. To quote my WoL in a picture I made to vent:

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Originally Posted by WoL!Kazuko

"I've been their friend for so damn long, and they didn't ask me if I was okay?"

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Because without the scions we wouldnt have trusts...i mean...you could introduce new characters....but that would steal the writers Oc Furry cat Woke Lmao time. Cant have that.

So they couldn't be sued for false advertising over the trailer.

Just killing.

It's so that we could fill out an eight man.

You need them for the trust system.

"Man, I wish the Scions would take a step back and we get new characters"

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc...M0hK/giphy.gif

All I am getting from this thread is that the Trust system ruined the writing for the scions in Dawntrail.

You know, we had like random soldiers and scions with no names help us in the past regarding trusts. Why can't we have a little bit of side lore and help from a NPC from a village/town in Tural somewhere? That way the scions we all know and love doesn't have to be wedged into the story like this. People can see them again at a more proper time. We got all of those feather guys and gals just hanging out in Tuli; so why not bring one of them along for the ride? (Edit: We had a whole entire side story explaining the importance and power of the hanu hanu feathers that were placed on armor.)

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Like ok no problem, i get the devs want us to see familiar faces... but why?

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I said this before at the end of 6.4 I said it was a mistake to take the Twins out of Garlemald.

Many people rejected my message since they love the twins so much.

But to me not only was the last 10 years the story of Hydaelyn and Zodiark. It was Alphinaud and Alisaies (and by extension Louisoix's) story

It makes logical sense that the Twins would see a rebuilding of a shattered despot nation to the end. The whole story was building to them being independent and coming into their own and the guilt they felt for those poor Garlemald children dying instead of accepting our help.

Now all a sudden it's a flaw in Dawntrail that they were put in the background.

Well of course they'd be relegated back there! They are window-dressing. There's nothing left to develop at this point.

Maybe at some later point say after a Crafter/Gather Garlemald rebuilding effort we could reunite with the Twins in a critical moment. Perhaps against a militant Dalmascan faction that doesn't want to stop fighting a war against Garlemald and our tenuous stance of protecting this new Garlemald leads us into conflict with them and even former allies in the Eorzean alliance. Sort of a story that people can change and that an eye for an eye will leave everyone blind type moral.

In my honest opinion, our only real travel companion for future installments should be Graha Tia because we promised to go on journeys together. But they wrote him out of the story only to cart him back in when we were in yet another doomsday scenario.

Estinien I understand always being kept on the sidelines because he's your JRPG ("Second Strongest" Stoic party member) that joins at the last minute when things are at their worse. The guy who holds down the fort if you as the MC should fall.

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Originally Posted by Kukajoo

Estinien pretty uneeded

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Estinien is never, ever unneeded.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

Estinien is never, ever unneeded.

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Rofl I think he would agree with you. He joins cause he is asked or out of personal interest.

Marketability and the fear that people will not tune in if the Scions aren't there in some form?

Only instead of using them in any way, they ended up being emotionless puppets to the plot and sidelined at every turn. I could understand Estinien, I mean he got a holiday and is living his best adventurer life. HELL, even Vrtra got sidelined for a 20 second ALLIANCE written offscreen with Radz At Han, like what the hell. The MSQ was rushed and slowed down at the same time.

But the rest? Eugh. Alisaie calling Wuk Lamat, "Lamatie" made me want to throw up, totally unearned, totally forced garbage tier writing for a childrens show like the rest of the MSQ. You can't just switch tones after the earlier expansions, you need to EARN it.

You honestly give the HELM of your cash cow to these unproved, rookie writers? Are you okay? With the baffling and safe choices that keep us marred in this same old cycle of "Talk to this npc, have 1.5 housing items per patch, have 2.5 quests per patch and Viera hats and Hrotgar hats still non existent after years." I'm gonna say it. I think Yoshi P needs to go, Soken needs to go and these new writers need to go together with Koji (So we don't get another expansion song advertising for their band.) and they need to helm some other project for SE.

You honestly rushed Endwalker instead of making two expansions for THIS? Only for this subpar story that was rushed and slowed down back and forth with bad pacing? Man oh man. "Krile is gonna play a huge part?" Oh really? SHE BARELY HAD LINES IN THE WHOLE OF 7.0

Glad they appeared so little, they're getting on my nerves both of them, s'pecially Alisaie. What a pain..

You could ask this question for nearly all of the Scions. The only Scion that NEEDED to be in Dawntrail was Krile. Even then though her impact on the story was so minimal, despite being hyped up by the devs constantly to have a massive role, that it feels more like she was thrown in as an afterthought simply because people wanted to see more Krile and threw together some story behind her to make her seem "relevant". The twins in particular though acted like husks of themselves, with Alisaie being one of the worst given most of her sass seems to have vanished to become a yes man to Wuk. She even STOPPED everyone from going after Zoraal Ja, when old Alisaie no doubt would've lunged at him alongside Wuk in a heartbeat. Alphinaud meanwhile was...there, he was there...just like the rest...who HAD to be there in Dawntrail too.

It's pretty much just marketing at this point, and the story finding ways to shoehorn them in so all of the Scions will always be included somehow in progressing the plot, no matter how minor the role.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

They are just their to learn from how another country handles matters, Tural, and then take that information to go and help the Garleans on the relief effort. Nothing more.

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Which is a completely arse reason if you'd ask me. There's nothing we encountered that would represent some sort of character growth in that regard. They probably seen more valuable things in Shadowbringers alone.

And even if it was meant to be a fruitless quest ("well we tried but we didn't see anything that we could use."), why both of them? Why not an actual Garlean like Jullus? The story could be written that way. I honestly feel that a garlean reacting to Turali culture and taking notes would be much more endearing to see.

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

So they can ask "Where's Wuk Lamat?" when Wuk Lamat isn't on screen.

https://i.imgur.com/samdv0y.png

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Yep, just like almost every other character in Dawntrail she's here to be Wuk's personal cheerleader.
https://i.imgur.com/51pkErY.png

It kills me because there are a fair amount of times where they could have piped up with their opinions, showing off what they've learned in our past journeys, but they... do not. Even when the story delivers the perfect scenario on a platter, they barely say anything.

We can still have the old scions participate in the story, we just need better writers so that they actually participate.

And I do think it's a writing issue, rather than them trying to make room for Wuk Lamat, because despite all the room she has her writing isn't any better. They weren't holding out on us, this is the best they had. They weren't ready for such a big project yet.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

They are just their to learn from how another country handles matters, Tural, and then take that information to go and help the Garleans on the relief effort. Nothing more.

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hey Alphinaud, you know what? Lets go to africa to find a way to help california.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

They are just their to learn from how another country handles matters, Tural, and then take that information to go and help the Garleans on the relief effort. Nothing more.

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And what did they learn? "Seeds solve racism."

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Originally Posted by midnitdragoon

Like ok no problem, i get the devs want us to see familiar faces... but why?

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Why were we even in Dawntrail?

I have a feeling the new writers don't really know how to write the scions so they just try to utilize them as little as possible. The mid expansion scene where alisaie stops wuk lamat from attacking seem so out of character. Pre-dawntrail alisaie would have been the first to attack him.

Alisaie was there so we could sit next to each other at a campfire and be asked the questio : “Do you have anyone not blood related that you consider family?”.

And then she could say, “lol, hard one, I’ll think about it. How about you WoL?”

And then my WoL could respond with, “…wtf.”

I still remember the most important quote from Shadowbringers, “this is our future, our story”.

I want the MSQ to be about the WoL’s adventures, not for us to be second fiddle to another.

Spending time on Wuk is ok but not the whole expansion and then some. Definitely not make them the main character, I got enough of that treatment back when I played WoW.

Hopefully the devs will do better in January of 2027 when 8.0 arrives.

Final advice for the devs:
8.0 should be a single story and only bring along characters that are required to move the story along. No need for cameos, save those for the post expansion patches. Take the time to flesh out the story properly and don’t rush or overload it. Look at HW and ShB for examples.

They're just here to fill the duty NPC party, they literally have no other role in this story.

Supposedly learn something to improve relations with the Garleans but it's a pretty flimsy excuse that forgets how much time they've spent as envoys/diplomats in the past. Especially Alphinaud. From ARR to HW and crowning in ShB he's shown to be very capable at navigating and understanding new cultures. You'd think that rather than sail halfway around the world to understand Garleans he'd just spend more time with them.

Unfortunately ever since Endwalker the twins have been made useless. I suppose it makes sense since they're just kids, but why bother giving them growth in the first place if you're just going to take it away?

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I still remember the most important quote from Shadowbringers, “this is our future, our story”.

I want the MSQ to be about the WoL’s adventures, not for us to be second fiddle to another.

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Naw I don't really resonate with that particular complaint.
I don't mind playing a secondary role. That wasn't the issue.

I do agree though that in the future only characters that make sense to come with us should come with us.
Like I don't like Y'shtola for example but her being absent while we travel to Living Memory when her new goal was to travel new worlds was a miss.

I assume maybe it's not just a narrative problem but maybe a wanting to give Trusts continued relevance?

Because if you take Everkeep as an example they just shoe horned Scions in place so they could be npcs for the Second Trial.

I think maybe a part of their development team is pushing that.

But like they could just make generic NPCs to help in those cases... or start preparing stories for casts that make sense since the First Trial I think with trusts made sense. We don't need the Scions.

I believe our travel companions for the future should be Graha'tia, Krile, Estinien and Erenville (Who needs to pick up a bow or something maybe he can be a beast master)

We should be more in line with the students of Baldesion now with Sharlyan as our new base of operations.

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Originally Posted by Nadda

I believe our travel companions for the future should be Graha'tia, Krile, Estinien and Erenville (Who needs to pick up a bow or something maybe he can be a beast master).

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Just make Erenville beat enemies up with his backpack like we used to do back in highschool.