Dawntrail plot is not chill low stake, but it's pacing is and that's why it's bad

For all those who are saying well of course it's slow paced this is the chill expac getting away from the idea of saving the world etc. The problem with that, is we aren't chilling, from minute 1 we are helping decide the future of a continent, by what marker is that chill or relaxing?

If they wanted chill it should have been:

We arrive with Wuk and Krile, to relax and help Krile etc, Wuk never mentions a leadership campaign. Wuk likes partying with the people and cultures and she takes us around to the different groups, instead of 900 longwinded info dumb cutscenes, we should have been doing solo duties with mini game type things learning about those cultures. For example, lama racing up the hills with the traders (literally just re skin the chocobo racing minigame), then solo another duty where we're on the back of a cart protecting the barrels of goods from waves of mobs while it's going down the path etc. Have us do surfing minigame and other beach themed solo duties with lore involved so as a player we feel involved in the story. We learn that Wuk loves her people and spends time with them. Have her not interested in the leadership race because she would rather spend time with her people than on a throne. Starting her as a fun loving and caring goofball. Then slowly have us cross paths with the leadership race, basically the same interactions with 2 twin headed heel etc. Then slowly due to the second arc of the game Wuk realises that if she truly cares for her people she needs to help them, take responsibilities and fight for the sake of her people.

See that's an Arc it's character progression, I'm not a good writer, I'm sure there are plenty of people that could come up with something better. But even then that shows my point the writing is so flawed.

Instead what was delivered is an incredibly important functionally high stake story, stretched out and delivered at a slow pace, by just info dumping us massive backstory lore of a group of people, in a constant stream of long winded cutscenes. Wuk is a mary sue instead of a well written character, she's immature, constantly makes mistakes and can never truly grow as a character because even with all her flaws everyone always responds to her as if she was right and amazing and she always wins in the end, just get a powerup out of no where cause Wuk. it doesn't feel like and adventure or holiday, it feels like I've been sent back to school to be talked down to and sat in the corner listening to other people for the next 100 hours.

... and who play that kind of ... thing?

I tried some "social MMO", it was so bad I had to hot-swap and burn the ssd, because it was the only way to avoid infecting the whole PC.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

The problem with that, is we aren't chilling, from minute 1 we are helping decide the future of a continent, by what marker is that chill or relaxing?

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The marker of defeating what is essentially the devil on the moon, then god, then flying to the edge of the universe and defeating the source of the end of all existence? Going into a political dispute is just Tuesday for the WoL.

Remember Ishgard? Ala Mhigo? The Nadaam? Doma?
The only difference here is that there isn't more at stake.

Dawntrail has some "ARR Syndrome" in the beginning of the expansion--that I won't deny.

It absolutely picks up after you hit up the third zone, and imo is well worth it. It's just whether you want to wait that long.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

The marker of defeating what is essentially the devil on the moon, then god, then flying to the edge of the universe and defeating the source of the end of all existence? Going into a political dispute is just Tuesday for the WoL.

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You seem to be missing the point, it's still high stakes, it's basically exactly the same as Stormblood, continent at war. That's not lower stakes, that's not relaxed or a random adventure, we are basically dumped into a political intrigue campaign without any dog in the fight in the first place, which is one of the other reasons why Wuk is so unlikable, outside of her character being poorly written. We are basically dragged straight into being a campaigner for her political career for no good reason, basically, just cause. It's the same as before without a shadowy cabal only this time, we're a background character that has no impact in the story what so ever.

There's actually way more at stake here than SB but the pacing is inexplicably bad. The final zone in particular had me just shaking my head with the 'hey, let's take it easy for a while and get to know some people' vibe they tried to sell and it just doesn't work imo. It worked for the first half of the expansion due to the plot but it feels really out of place in the 2nd half.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

There's actually way more at stake here than SB but the pacing is inexplicably bad. The final zone in particular had me just shaking my head with the 'hey, let's take it easy for a while and get to know some people' vibe they tried to sell and it just doesn't work imo. It worked for the first half of the expansion due to the plot but it feels really out of place in the 2nd half.

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Yeah I agree with that, but I think that a better explanation might have sufficed. Something "like we need to blend in to not be suspicious" and maybe at that point you have Wuk Lamat say that doesn't sit well with her, but she wants to get to understand the people here, and then it can kind of progress organically into the emotional situation you have.

Or if you don't want the duplicity, simply something where helping them come to terms is needed, just something where the heroes have to interact to some degree--even if just at the beginning, rather than it being simple fancy.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

<SNIP>We arrive with Wuk and Krile, to relax and help Krile etc, Wuk never mentions a leadership campaign. Wuk likes partying with the people and cultures and she takes us around to the different groups, instead of 900 longwinded info dumb cutscenes, we should have been doing solo duties with mini game type things learning about those cultures. For example, lama racing up the hills with the traders (literally just re skin the chocobo racing minigame), then solo another duty where we're on the back of a cart protecting the barrels of goods from waves of mobs while it's going down the path etc. Have us do surfing minigame and other beach themed solo duties with lore involved so as a player we feel involved in the story. We learn that Wuk loves her people and spends time with them. Have her not interested in the leadership race because she would rather spend time with her people than on a throne. Starting her as a fun loving and caring goofball. Then slowly have us cross paths with the leadership race, basically the same interactions with 2 twin headed heel etc. Then slowly due to the second arc of the game Wuk realises that if she truly cares for her people she needs to help them, take responsibilities and fight for the sake of her people.

See that's an Arc it's character progression, I'm not a good writer, I'm sure there are plenty of people that could come up with something better. But even then that shows my point the writing is so flawed. <SNIP>

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I don't agree the problem with the story is solely pacing. Pacing is a MASSIVE issue, yes, but there is truly poor writing.

This quoted example, I would've loved going through a story like this. The more I go through the story the more I realize I truly like Wuk Lamat's character, but the writing has destroyed any goodwill this character had. Telling me what peace is over and over again to the point where I'm literally skipping scenes because I'm sick of reading / hearing it, giving me literal verbatim recaps of what I just did an hour ago was so exceptionally jarring - it didn't feel like I was playing any final fantasy game period. Not to mention, I don't know who Wuk Lamat is.

I think the comparison to Lyse is valid, but I think there are even better comparisons to Yugiri. Yugiri saved her people, helped us in ways she never needed to, and we sought HER out. We grew together as buddies. I went on 1 hunt with Wuk for her to vet my WoL. The story itself attempts to blackmail you and scare you into helping her; if you don't help her... well her warmongering brother could win! If you don't help her... well, how are you going to find the city of gold! Hey... remember that old grumpy guy that we all love and snaps his fingers alot? Yeah yeah.. emotional attachment, he told you about something! Even those reasons in and of themselves are fine, but without developing Wuk's character or giving some sort of growth / attachment makes this whole thing feel so shallow.

No, I want to help her b/c I want to. I want the story to show me, grow with my wol for good reasons like Yugiri, Lyse, shoot I was pumped chasing after Hien during the dungeon where we're pushing the enemy back.

This is legitimately bad writing in the game. This suggestion in the quote would've been leagues above what we got. I just hope the post patches are better and they listen to our feedback.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

You seem to be missing the point, it's still high stakes, it's basically exactly the same as Stormblood, continent at war. That's not lower stakes, that's not relaxed or a random adventure, we are basically dumped into a political intrigue campaign without any dog in the fight in the first place, which is one of the other reasons why Wuk is so unlikable, outside of her character being poorly written. We are basically dragged straight into being a campaigner for her political career for no good reason, basically, just cause. It's the same as before without a shadowy cabal only this time, we're a background character that has no impact in the story what so ever.

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I mean, "low" or "high" stakes are relative terms.

Compared to defeating the embodiment of universal despair and absolute entropy, effectively stopping it from erasing the entire universe, a mere continent is quite literally insignificant.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

I mean, "low" or "high" stakes are relative terms.

Compared to defeating the embodiment of universal despair and absolute entropy, effectively stopping it from erasing the entire universe, a mere continent is quite literally insignificant.

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While that's true it's hardly a holiday esque chilled expansion, nor is it adventure, you're not adventuring when you're being led around by the nose. So it fails in both regards, I posted it in another thread, but now I'm at the end of the story I've come to realise,

The entire plot of this expac is a poor attempt of a copy of the first arc of Stormblood with the last act of Shadowbringer, Sphene story line is literally a budget emmet.

Our PC has no reason to be here, no reason to do any of this, as I said before it's not like we're on adventure, we're essentially a political campaigner for a character we've just met. We don't go off the beaten track discover new things, just get led around like a lap dog.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

The marker of defeating what is essentially the devil on the moon, then god, then flying to the edge of the universe and defeating the source of the end of all existence? Going into a political dispute is just Tuesday for the WoL.

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What i was really disappointment in was, how we were seen as a thread, but never had an moment were someone did something to upset us and just some angry gaze of us sends that one shivering... showing how we're vastly stronger then any of them but just hold back to not interfere too much...

Though it was funny when they talked about how the Mamol-ja got the beaten so hard on Eorzea and we just smile and nod *instert captain kirk meme*

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

There's actually way more at stake here than SB but the pacing is inexplicably bad. The final zone in particular had me just shaking my head with the 'hey, let's take it easy for a while and get to know some people' vibe they tried to sell and it just doesn't work imo. It worked for the first half of the expansion due to the plot but it feels really out of place in the 2nd half.

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Yeah, it gave me serious "the world is ending, let's play dress up with the Loporrits" vibes. Basically, could have been a side quest, should not have been part of the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Yeah, it gave me serious "the world is ending, let's play dress up with the Loporrits" vibes. Basically, could have been a side quest, should not have been part of the MSQ.

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Add in the fact that there can be no emotional pay off to a bunch of people we've just met, aka the uneding people. I don't care about you or your society, I was informed about you 5s ago, you're end goal is dumb/none existent you're a poor copy of emmet who was written much much better better.
Literally comparing them both

Sphene

Created an artificial world with the memories of her dead people. Her end goal keep feeding the machine souls to keep the dead memories of her people in virtual space. Meaning this will go on forever there's not really an end plan here, just constantly burning up souls. So why would I feel even slightly bad and not just absoultely furious that this hack writer tried to copy emmets remember that we once lived line.

Emmet

Created an artificial world with the memories of his dead people. But through the delivery we realise he is keeping this artifical memory world going not just to remember his people but also as a form of Self-flagellation, punishing himself for his part in the sundering. His end goal is not the artifical memory world but to completely the rejoining bringing all his people back to life. He doesn't care if all the shards die because we are functionally just all fractured pieces of a person that he is trying to put back together.