Lower and Mid Level Capped Content

One of the things I loved in FFXI was that there was content across all levels. Specifically, in BCNM, you were "lowered" to lvl 30 for some fights, which means you had to have lvl 30 gear to be able to do the content.

I would love if FFXIV introduces middle and lower level content. This would "fix" the issue of 99% of gear being outleveled within a day or two. It's pretty much end game gear and the rest of the gear is useless.

I would love to help friends who are just joining FFXIV if there was compelling, "fun" content throughout. I'm sure crafters would love to be able to craft items across all levels and know there was a purposeful use for them. IT will jolt the economy and making crafting meaningful across all levels.

My 2 cents.

In my humble opinion, 2.0 NEEDS a level sync option.
As for needing a gear set to match the level instead of the higher level gear just syncing...
Only if the UI is awesome enough that the tons of extra items and gear changing involved in that are seamless.

I recall either the German or French rep commenting on how Level Sync will be a bit hard to implement into XIV due to the Armory system, so I don't see this happening for awhile if at all, especially if powerleveling stays put.

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Originally Posted by Zell

One of the things I loved in FFXI was that there was content across all levels. Specifically, in BCNM, you were "lowered" to lvl 30 for some fights, which means you had to have lvl 30 gear to be able to do the content.

I would love if FFXIV introduces middle and lower level content. This would "fix" the issue of 99% of gear being outleveled within a day or two. It's pretty much end game gear and the rest of the gear is useless.

I would love to help friends who are just joining FFXIV if there was compelling, "fun" content throughout. I'm sure crafters would love to be able to craft items across all levels and know there was a purposeful use for them. IT will jolt the economy and making crafting meaningful across all levels.

My 2 cents.

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I agree 100% with you. I loved how you stayed a low/mid leevel player for long enough intervals that low/mid levels content was worthwhile. Not to mention it was done so bloody well..


But Im not sure that sort of quality is what SE is aiming for in ff14

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I recall either the German or French rep commenting on how Level Sync will be a bit hard to implement into XIV due to the Armory system.

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Just spit balling here.
As i see it the major bug bear in the room as far as level sync is functional gear stats. The rest of the armory system takes care of the Majority of other problems that would crop up. Base actions, cross class slots, physical attribute distribution, Ability/spell potency vs active level. All handily take care of by the armory its self.

If they took the gear scaling that we had when all the gear was only optimal. Monkeyed with that school of the games math magic. I bet they could get something pretty damned close to functional. Aside from that the only other questions would be how would the level sync function with action bar memory. And a whole other ball of wax that would be the job system.

Yeah, or find some way to separate the natural gear scaling from forced scaling (level sync) it could work. That though would likely depend if they redo any type of calculations for 2.0 which I hope they would since a lot of armor related issues in 1.x is due to the client and server setup currently.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yeah, or find some way to separate the natural gear scaling from forced scaling (level sync) it could work. That though would likely depend if they redo any type of calculations for 2.0 which I hope they would since a lot of armor related issues in 1.x is due to the client and server setup currently.

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That's what I was trying to get at. When level sync status is active gear scaling is also active. outside of that its as it is now.

Its an interesting decision to not implement level sync, but simplify the game down to extremely sad levels.

Level sync is more then enough of a helping hand to getting our lower level friends into the game and having fun. But they'd rather us have a disgustingly fast leveling experience, no low/mid level content and power leveling.

the problem is not so much of a lack of low/mid level content. it's the speed in which people pass by that content that's more of an issue. there's actually more content for mid levels than there is for "endgame" atm as far as pure numbers go. the problem is why go and do the mid level content if you will be through the levels it would help you in just a few hours?

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Originally Posted by Zell

One of the things I loved in FFXI was that there was content across all levels. Specifically, in BCNM, you were "lowered" to lvl 30 for some fights, which means you had to have lvl 30 gear to be able to do the content.

I would love if FFXIV introduces middle and lower level content. This would "fix" the issue of 99% of gear being outleveled within a day or two. It's pretty much end game gear and the rest of the gear is useless.

I would love to help friends who are just joining FFXIV if there was compelling, "fun" content throughout. I'm sure crafters would love to be able to craft items across all levels and know there was a purposeful use for them. IT will jolt the economy and making crafting meaningful across all levels.

My 2 cents.

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I def don't think forcing people to keep separate sets of gear is a good thing. I could see lowering someone's level, but it should also just scale down your gear stats. I wouldn't even be opposed to it letting you keep your abilities, so that you're still a bit more powerful than a normal character at that level.

bcnms were awesome and kept the economy going as well since people had to keep lower level gears! So for newer players, they won't have to worry about any items being 0 in stock. Supply and demand

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Originally Posted by beryuyu

bcnms were awesome and kept the economy going as well since people had to keep lower level gears! So for newer players, they won't have to worry about any items being 0 in stock. Supply and demand

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Another good/bad thing was a sizable portion of XI's must have gear was low-mid level (with obvious end game gear thrown in).

A lot of the "useless" low-mid level gear was used for better gear as synthesis material, but if you had little to no gil you could still use those armors for filler until you got better. This kept gear market alive at all levels until SE raised cap which negated all previous gear uses.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the problem is not so much of a lack of low/mid level content. it's the speed in which people pass by that content that's more of an issue. there's actually more content for mid levels than there is for "endgame" atm as far as pure numbers go. the problem is why go and do the mid level content if you will be through the levels it would help you in just a few hours?

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I have to respectfully disagree on the current state of Mid game content. I would not qualify Leve's, A dungeon, and solo class quests "Good" or Plentiful content. That is not to say that two/three dungeons, Primal fights, a hand full of job quest, and lot of other busy work is good either.

But you are spot on with it boiling down to a pacing problem. And if they can pull off what there talking about it should sort its self out. And that is when the level sync kicks in.

Here's a brilliant idea: If Level Sync were to be implemented, why not bar players from equipping gear higher than the given level? If you know you're heading into a place that has a level cap, just bring lower-level items.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Here's a brilliant idea: If Level Sync were to be implemented, why not bar players from equipping gear higher than the given level? If you know you're heading into a place that has a level cap, just bring lower-level items.

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It might be even easier to just have stat scaling/caps. For example: A level 20 fight might cap all stats at 50, hp at 500, mp at 700, ect. That way no one has to carry around 15 sets of gear.

Capped content is fucking awful. Why not ask for content that scales instead?

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Originally Posted by Griss

I have to respectfully disagree on the current state of Mid game content. I would not qualify Leve's, A dungeon, and solo class quests "Good" or Plentiful content. That is not to say that two/three dungeons, Primal fights, a hand full of job quest, and lot of other busy work is good either.

But you are spot on with it boiling down to a pacing problem. And if they can pull off what there talking about it should sort its self out. And that is when the level sync kicks in.

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i'm not even talking about those. you have a mid level dungeon. a low level of each of the primals, and 19 mid level nm's i believe. so you have 22 pieces of mid level content not counting leves or quests.

you have 3 strongholds, 3 dungeons, 3 faction nm bosses, 3 primals, and 5 high level nm's for high levels. that's 17 pieces of high level content not counting quests.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Capped content is fucking awful. Why not ask for content that scales instead?

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I like this idea. FFVIII has also grown on me over the years. I used to hate it. Now i love it.
Anyway... My main concern is for the 'use' of content. Take Toto-Rak for example as a level 25 dungeon. First of all, if there's no cap, then higher level players are going to run in there and wipe the place clean. They'll only do that if there's some kind of reason to go in, but as far as real battle game-play goes, it's a waste. Secondly, in a content finder system, you can't really throw a legit level 25 player in with a level 50 player. It kills it. So you could segregate content finder into matching certain level ranges, but when it comes to lesser travelled areas ... i would be concerned about wait times. Plus, if there's a range, it is more difficult to maximise the balance of the battle.

I think content that scales is a great idea, although i wonder if it's a reasonable work load, given that to implement well, every dungeon will need to be retested/balanced by the devs at every level range. But then still there is the issue to splitting up the player base looking to enter the queue.

I read somewhere before that there will be 'difficulty settings', so i'm guessing that's the approach being taken. Where a level 25 dungeon will also have a level 40 setting etc...

prime example of needing level caps is totorak lv25 and you can spam it for GC seals, and make 3 runs a hour for 3K+ GC seals. level caps also make lower level equip re-useable so you dont have to toss out all the no tradable stuff after you get something better. all loot can be valuable in the lower dungeons also and that can help the noobs complete content because people will do it even after they finshed there quest.

totorak has its loot rewards and secondary loot being GC seal if all dungeons follow that foot print we can always have stuff to do.

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In my humble opinion, 2.0 NEEDS a level sync option.

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no it dont the game is easy to level solo if you have too in a party you can have 10 level difference, and im pretty sure 2.0 will be just as easy if not easier.

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Capped content is fucking awful. Why not ask for content that scales instead?

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uncapped is worse, capped is scaling content not everything has to scale up into infinity.

I think the only time I have ever heard people throw around the word "scaled content" is from people who have never experienced it but have seen someone else say it on a forum and thought it would make them look good if they repeated it.

"Scaled content" is never going to happen. Its some weird ass pipe dream that people like to throw around when a poster makes a credible statement about a dynamic that they dont agree with.

What mid level content? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

Open world roaming NMs? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

Complex and deep crafting? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

SWIMSUITS? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

Pikachu? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

And yet, scaled content as a term is only 1/10th as stupid as requiring me to dumb my characters strength down just to get items.

Unless of course you want level capped/low level content where the rewards are worthless, in which case I would change my ratio from 1/10th as stupid to 1/100th.

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Originally Posted by Tricksy

I think the only time I have ever heard people throw around the word "scaled content" is from people who have never experienced it but have seen someone else say it on a forum and thought it would make them look good if they repeated it.

"Scaled content" is never going to happen. Its some weird ass pipe dream that people like to throw around when a poster makes a credible statement about a dynamic that they dont agree with.

What mid level content? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

Open world roaming NMs? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

Complex and deep crafting? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

SWIMSUITS? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

Pikachu? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

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Actually no. I've never seen anyone recommend content that scales. Perhaps they were referring to different tiers, but I'd rather not carry eight fucking sets of gear just for content in this game. That's bad game design. Unless they scale each piece of gear down accordingly for level caps, then I'm fine with it. But scaled content similarly to CoP in XI was atrocious.

They can set scaled content in tiers. Lv10, 20, 30, 40, 50.

BCNMs in FF11 were pretty fun. They provided content that was accessible to people long before they reached the level cap, and the rewards they offered were often valuable and relevant for very many levels, in some case all the way into the max level endgame. It made new players feel significant in a world that was populated by lots of people way stronger than them, and that's probably the best part of it.

The downside was of course the need to carry gear sets for multiple level ranges for several of your jobs, which quickly ate up a lot of the already limited inventory space of that game. Level sync with automatic gear scaling alleviated many of these problems. Too high level gear wouldn't be come useless, but correctly leveled gear would still give you a slight edge. This lead to, at least for me, keeping around 2-5 pieces of gear that would be good for many lower level ranges, while just using auto-scaled gear for the rest of my 16 slots.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

BCNMs in FF11 were pretty fun. They provided content that was accessible to people long before they reached the level cap, and the rewards they offered were often valuable and relevant for very many levels, in some case all the way into the max level endgame. It made new players feel significant in a world that was populated by lots of people way stronger than them, and that's probably the best part of it.

The downside was of course the need to carry gear sets for multiple level ranges for several of your jobs, which quickly ate up a lot of the already limited inventory space of that game. Level sync with automatic gear scaling alleviated many of these problems. Too high level gear wouldn't be come useless, but correctly leveled gear would still give you a slight edge. This lead to, at least for me, keeping around 2-5 pieces of gear that would be good for many lower level ranges, while just using auto-scaled gear for the rest of my 16 slots.

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And if SE could get over the need to include gear sets in our inventory count. Just let that one thing go....

Anyway its just my opinion, but content and items were really well develioped in FF11 with a variety of sidegrades to choose from and even with every new expansion content from the very beginning retained much of its worth... till the Ermehgerdern.

I just dont want to see FF14 have tiered bs, that everyone has a few weeks after each expansion, and that is ruled out by each consecutive expansion.

But ill prolly play ff14 regardless unless its utter crap.

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Originally Posted by Tricksy

I think the only time I have ever heard people throw around the word "scaled content" is from people who have never experienced it but have seen someone else say it on a forum and thought it would make them look good if they repeated it.

"Scaled content" is never going to happen. Its some weird ass pipe dream that people like to throw around when a poster makes a credible statement about a dynamic that they dont agree with.

What mid level content? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

Open world roaming NMs? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

Complex and deep crafting? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

SWIMSUITS? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

Pikachu? Naaaaa way man! - Scaled content!

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I agree that scaling doesn't work in most instances. However, the one place where it does make sense is when you have content where there is an indeterminate amount of people participating. For instance, the dungeons are 4-8 players. It would be great if the difficult would scale up the more people you added.

I feel like I'm the only one who went into Shposhae :[

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Originally Posted by Tricksy

I just dont want to see FF14 have tiered bs

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You're a bit late.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I feel like I'm the only one who went into Shposhae :[

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I went in there. Several times. Fun place.