Something I've seen few people talk about when it comes to current summoner discourse is how little carbuncle currently has to do during fights, which I think is a shame. Since it doesn't even cast searing light anymore, it's essentially only there to shield us occasionnaly and be a pain to summon after dying.
So my idea to remedy that and maybe bring some nuance to the job without needing to completely rework everything or even create new assets (more of patch change than an expansion change) would be to take yet another page from FFIX's book and allowing it to have different abilities based on its different gemstones, that would change alongside your own elemental phase
Currently, Carbuncle is always there in between summons, when we're using the elemental gems to cast spells of a specific element. And its gemstone / color variants only exist as a visual change. With all these gems it'd make sense to reconnect these elements.
So, I imagine that it could be elementally infused by whichever summon you last called, and change gemstone and colour accordingly, and get more of a purpose again. In addition to Radiant Shield which I think should stay, it could get a new action for each gem, Ruby Light, Emerald Light or Topaz Light , which would give the player a buff that caries out to the next elemental summon phase, creating synergy between them. It would certainly make the little guy feel more useful as well as giving players even more of an incentive to choose the order they use summons wisely.
Heck maybe the order could even then influence wether or not we get bahamut or solar bahamut as a summon at the end of the phase, if carbuncle's aether was more astral or umbral due to our actions or something.
I'm really not sure how balanced it would be, I'm no expert when it comes to that, but it could give Summoners new stuff to track and take advantage of existing assets.
Giving Carbucle more to do (an easy to implement SMN change)
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06-16-2024, 10:05 PMAlphaXXIGiving Carbucle more to do (an easy to implement SMN change)
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06-16-2024, 10:55 PMFlanaBecause it would be godawful for carbuncle to do anything. The rat is dead literally half your rotation and constantly blinking in and out of existence. The reason it doesn't get to do anything is because Demi-Summoning broke pet commands in this game. If you want carbuncle to do anything, demi-summoning has to go. Until that mechanic is scrapped, your pet cannot be allowed to do anything without getting run over constantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaXXI
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06-17-2024, 12:11 AMAlphaXXI
It lingers around the whole time you use Garuda, Ifrit and Titan actions as soon as they've used their big move. That's plenty of a window for one more carbuncle action, or else radiant shield just wouldn't be a thing already. But my suggestion should actually probably be something it does automatically when it disappears actually, taking advantage of it popping in and out is the whole point.
If it makes my concept make more sense, think of it like Bard's "Enhanced Army's Paeon". You choose the order in which you summon one of the basic three summons so you can have the right debuff for the right phase (like, summoning garuda improves spell speed, so you use it before the ifrit phase, something like that). -
06-17-2024, 12:16 AMPayadopa
The *least* it could do is auto attack. But this is XIV we're talking about, where Physic still exists, SMN and SCH are still linked and Undraw on AST took literal years to be removed.
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06-17-2024, 12:26 AMAlphaXXI
If they were to bring back auto-attacks for it I think they should all be ranged, because the current timing doesn't really support it needing to move around and get close. It could be fun if it mimicked the summoner when it uses the ifrit gap closer though. But I don't think they'll want to make it too close to the old egis.
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06-19-2024, 06:23 PMrawker
The least they could do is to completely decouple Carbuncle with the Primal summoning and have its own mechanics. Give a near-Resurrection amount of cast time for each Primal and while casting it, we have control over Carbuncle to do its thing.
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06-19-2024, 07:01 PMAlphaXXI
Near-Resurrection cast times sound like a total pain and would completely alienate anyone who's more used to the current mobility, and be a lot worse than what the job was like prior to Endwalker. Standing around is BLM's thing, and even they get ways to circumvent that. I agree that decoupling Carbuncle from the other summons could also work better, having it around all the time would allow it to be more useful.
On the other hand I know it's tempting to just throw the baby out with the bath water, and every other thread already discusses big changes, but we also need to discuss ways to fix SMN that fit the current vision the dev team has and wouldn't doom us to two to three years of the current job. -
06-19-2024, 09:18 PMGgwppinoBut apparently they are incapable of doing so, given that the problem arose at stb and they did nothing to solve it, but they made the decision to remove the problem from the root instead of solve: making the carbuncle a mascotQuote:
Originally Posted by rawker
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06-20-2024, 01:23 AMrawker
Either that or it didn't fit their criteria of "stress" free
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06-20-2024, 04:29 AMRaikai
Since the gemstone summons literally just pop in for a move and then out, I honestly don't see why they need to be an 'entity' that replaces the Carbuncle. If they were suddenly converted into animations it could have absolutely the same practical result.
Demis are more complex since they linger around for 15s, but at the very least it would be more or less a minute of the carbuncle actually being able to be involved in something else. -
06-20-2024, 08:09 AMEquitable_Remedy
While not a SMN main, I do enjoy SMN, and my preference would be for carbuncle to just go away permanently.
Summoning Bahamut = cool. Summoning carbuncle = not cool. -
06-20-2024, 12:37 PMAydenI agree with you. Carbuncle should just be removed. If Carbuncle were to deal damage, it would likely result in a reduction in the damage output of the Summoner itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy
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06-20-2024, 04:24 PMAyalu
The reason why carbuncle stays is probably because its anchored into the Arcanist Storyline and needed there.
But thats a common occurrence that the class story references and talks about things that are not true anymore.
I wouldn't mind carbuncle would go to us scholars instead Alphinaud showed some nice support stuff with it and would us suite more than the Angelic route. :) -
06-20-2024, 04:52 PMrawkerYes please. Also, I don't mind having to control 2 pets at the same time, 1 for offensive purposes, the other for healing.. I mean, even as SCH, we're still ACNs and are able to summon Carby.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayalu
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06-20-2024, 06:55 PMAlphaXXI
A lot of people like having Carbuncle around, there's emotionnal attachment involved. Removing it completely would disappoint a lot of people. Like I don't think giving it to scholars is a bad idea (even though they can already glam their fairy into one, that's what I personally do), but removing every aspect of having a pet from summoner would remove a big part of its identity.
I REALLY think the solution is to find a way to make it less pointless, if my initial idea doesn't seem appealing to you maybe suggest other things ? Be creative people, there's more possibilities than "remove this or that" or "go back to old thing I liked". -
06-20-2024, 07:41 PMGgwppinoIdeally the best option to not have a useless carbuncle is to have it coexist with the demes, so have "Carbuncle" entities and "Demi" entities that coexist and are two very distinct physical objects in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaXXI
At this point, since you have freed the carbuncle from the demi, you can make it do whatever you want.
Problem: They had about 7 years to implement a new entity for Demi, it was the best way to eliminate ghosting, yet they didn't do it. So I really imagine that the main problem is the inability to create it due to factors of skill or factors of how the engine sucks (even if it's not a valid excuse for how much money we give them to sqe between subscription, expansions and shop).
If they had implemented it, by now we would have the rotation we have now (which is a little different from always spamming ruin 3 although not by much), but we would still have the possibility to manage the positioning and the various resources of the pet.
We could have had a pet with HP, emnity and stamina.
We could have had a pet with the 3 roles DPS, Tank, Healer.
We could have had a pet with a dot to place on the ground
We could have had a pet with autoattack
We could have had a pet that dragged us to its position
We could have had a pet that buff
We could have had a pet that could give an area shield
We could have a pet that had a heal
Instead we have a pet that stands still and stares at us, ready for the next expansion to be eliminated completely and a pet bar that is unusable, because the commands literally do nothing. -
06-20-2024, 09:11 PMShadowNyx3
Hot take from someone who hates current SMN: Carbuncle is fine.
IMO, Carbuncle serves its purpose quite well with the redesign of SMN. It's your companion for the entire leveling process and is the entity through which you channel more powerful Summons as you grow.
Mechanically, Radiant Aegis is an amazing tool in higher level content and the only reason it has two charges is because it's balanced by the current summoning mechanic. You axe Carbuncle and you kill that second charge, making SMN and BLM have identical personal mitigations.
If you are lamenting old pet class gameplay then I feel for you but that playstyle is gone and it isn't coming back. Perhaps Beastmaster will bring back some of that flavor in some capacity, but it's dead and buried on Summoner.
That being said, there are some minor things you could add that bring back some of that flavor, however they would really only apply to higher level content. For example, since a theme of SMN utility is that its restrictive you could have a Passage of Arms effect unique to Carbuncle where it creates a small, localized shield that effects all party members within. This gives you a party mitigation similar to Red Mage but restricted by needing Carbuncle out and having to place the shield on the map. -
06-20-2024, 09:24 PMrawker
Some abilities got removed but was given back.. Energy Drain on SCH. It's not impossible for the old pet gameplay to return to SMN.
Using beastmaster as an argument is problematic as we have blue mage that can do everything. Why shoehorn a gameplay to a limited job only? -
06-20-2024, 09:42 PMGgwppinoSo fine, that in the middle of expansion they remove searing light from it. Actually they dont know what they are doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNyx3
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06-20-2024, 10:22 PMShadowNyx3Your point being...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ggwppino
The change to Searing Light was objectively positive. Hence, Carbuncle is fine. Should I have said: 'Carbuncle is currently fine?'
This would be a better example if they had removed Aetherflow entirely from Scholar and decided to bring back the whole mechanic. Instead, you are trying to equate adding a single button press back to Scholar's kit to adding back the entire concept of having to place your pet within the arena. Not to mention that the game has since expanded the area of effect of all party skills to encompass entire arenas, further putting a nail in the coffin of the idea of pet placement. Even if you added a party buff to Carbuncle, it would still hit everyone no matter where the pet was placed, which is why I specified a localized effect in my suggested example to try and add some of that flavor back.Quote:
Originally Posted by rawker
Who knows what Beastmaster will be able to do? Will it just be a copy of Blue Mage? Will it have some sort of new progression mechanic? We don't know right now. All I said is that maybe it will have the pet job flavor. Whether you like seeing that on Beastmaster is wholly up to whether you enjoy the content Beastmaster will offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by rawker
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06-20-2024, 10:38 PMrawker
Guess what, you still have Place and other pet ability as SMN. So there's your Aetherflow. Your turn
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06-20-2024, 10:46 PMGgwppino
it was positive for the simple fact that it ghosted, even more so it shows how when they released the smn, they didn't even know what they were doing! Let's also remove the shield from carbuncle and eliminate it completely, we gain in responsiveness, I dont see why should have it since it's fine that thematically the searing light is a summoner ability. currently it is useless and the pet bar which 3/4 does nothing is just the demonstration that what I say is not very questionable.
The pet isnt fine. -
06-20-2024, 11:13 PMMimilu
Personally, I think it would of been cooler if they gave either SMN or SCH a supped-up version of Carbuncle instead of Solar Bahamut or Seraphism. Like a Rainbow Carbuncle that could use different gem-colored light skills like the OP suggested. (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧
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06-20-2024, 11:20 PMShadowNyx3Welcome to every expansion launch of Summoner, where the .1 patch fixes some jank. I see that Endwalker was your first of such experiences and invite you to take a look back at the vibrant history of this wacky job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ggwppino
And I'm sorry but you don't get to call Radiant Aegis useless without having done content where it excels. -
06-20-2024, 11:27 PMGgwppinoSorry but with this alt ive done the high content with smn, so i know what i say. Radiant Aegis is not useless, but this is not the ability that save Carbuncle from a miserable existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNyx3
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06-20-2024, 11:42 PMKhryseis_AstraRadiant Aegis has saved my squishy caster butt so many times! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNyx3
For the main topic here though, I wouldn’t mind Carbuncle having more things to do, as long as I don’t have to spend another hot bar full of buttons to make it happen, and it doesn’t interrupt the flow of the rest of the rotation. SMN is, right now, the one class that isn’t suffering from button bloat! As I visualize it, Carby is our magical focus creature, it’s the aether we’re manipulating to pull off our summons, so it’s only natural it disappears when we call the others out. The aether is changing into those other forms.
Does a part of me miss Carbuncle as a summon in its own right from other FF games? Sure! Do I miss the clunky cluster of buttons we had before in this game? Not one bit… I don’t really have any good suggestions for improvements, as I’m not in the “SMN is/should be primarily a pet class” camp. But I definitely don’t want to see Carbuncle go away either. -
06-21-2024, 12:02 AMAlphaXXIAgain with the "remove thing" or "go back to old", you guys are broken records.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ggwppino
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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra
Having it influence the rotation with buffs it passes between phases wouldn't bloat the hot bar :) -
06-21-2024, 12:08 AMGgwppino
Apparently I expressed myself badly, I don't want to come off as someone who said Radiant Aegis is useless.
What I mean is: since Searing Light was legitimized on the summoner, the same could be done with Radiant Aegis.
And poof: the carbuncle no longer exists
And I would like to point out that I am not happy that it will disappear, on the contrary, I would like it to return to being as important as it was before.
What I mean is that if:
1) doesn't attack
2) we don't have to position it
3) its only ability is not interconnected to its position, making it indifferent whether it or the summoner has the ability.
4) its bar is 3/4 unusable (and it's really serious in a finished game)
Carbuncle is not fine.
But in my opinion the new (now not even anymore) smn in general between 0 cast, 0 resources to manage and too rigid rotation for burst, but this is a post for the carbuncles and let's stick to that -
06-21-2024, 12:15 AMAlphaXXI
Honestly wether or not Carbuncle's position matters or not for radiant aegis doesn't seem like an issue to me. It can just have something that might as well have been on summoner itself, if only for flair (also as much as I uderstand why searing light is now on SMN I think it made more thematic sense to have Carbuncle cast it).
As for the rest of your concerns, I get it, but I never really understood the "0 cast" issue to be honest. You still have to cast during Ifrit, even if yeah that's a lot less than other caster jobs. I don't see why one can't have more instant on principal, they're called casters because they use magic, not specifically because they need to have cast time. But yeah it does need to require more active thinking. -
06-21-2024, 12:20 AMThorneDynasty
Casting without casting is just ranged physical except using a different... no, renamed stat.
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06-21-2024, 12:27 AMGgwppinoIndeed, if they didn't make the carbuncle disappear, this could really be enhanced, both by restoring Searing light and by introducing new things that could be an infinite number. But currently the carbuncle only has the window for Radiant Aegis and nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaXXI
Spam for spam, Having the thrill of slidecasting ruin 3, I liked it much more than doing the same thing but instant for 50 seconds straight. (And it's not a criticism of the few buttons, which makes me neither hot nor cold, it's a criticism of the fact that when I finish a content it's only gratifying to have finished it and no longer as it was gratifying to have finished it with smn)Quote:
As for the rest of your concerns, I get it, but I never really understood the "0 cast" issue to be honest. You still have to cast during Ifrit, even if yeah that's a lot less than other caster jobs. I don't see why one can't have more instant on principal, they're called casters because they use magic, not specifically because they need to have cast time. But yeah it does need to require more active thinking.
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06-21-2024, 12:45 AMAlphaXXIAnd we need them to be drastically different categories in all ways because... ? It casts spells, it's a caster. It wears caster gear, is themed around magic visually, it uses caster stats to cause damage, it uses up MP... I just don't get the fuss over that specifically.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty
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06-21-2024, 12:52 AMGgwppinoLet's say that having 1 smn acting as a phys ranged but without having the penalty of double phys ranged, when now the meta is to have 2 melee 1 caster and 1 phys ranged, is quite unfair.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaXXI
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06-21-2024, 12:55 AMAlphaXXI
If you say so.
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06-21-2024, 01:09 AMThorneDynasty
Yes that what we need, more homogenization even between roles.
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06-21-2024, 01:23 AMGgwppino
making a caster not a caster is removing homogenization?
So you're claiming that in HW/Stb/shB the casters were all the same? Meh -
06-21-2024, 01:30 AMThorneDynasty??Quote:
Originally Posted by Ggwppino
I know I didn't bother quoting but I'm really not sure how you confused the context here. -
06-21-2024, 02:00 AMShadowNyx3I said this before, but the reason Radiant Aegis is allowed to have 2 charges is because it's balanced by being tied to Carbuncle. You remove that restriction and the ability would have to be reduced to a single use which makes it functionally identical to Manaward on BLM. That is inarguable homogenization.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ggwppino
I see Radiant Aegis' current functionality as one of the only interesting things about the job, which is pretty sad when I'm making a big deal out of a personal shield, but that's where we are right now. -
06-21-2024, 03:53 AMKhryseis_AstraAgreed… shorter or instant cast times for most of the kit doesn’t make it no longer a caster. Half of RDM’s spells are instant. PCT will have instant casts as well. BLM has the least, but they get Triple Cast. The caster group has a full range of long to short cast times: BLM > PCT > RDM > SMN. And the two with shorter and/or instant casts already have lower dps because they can rez. So they’re not getting some unfair advantage over other classes by being quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaXXI
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06-21-2024, 05:47 AMGgwppinoUh, I thought it was referring to the fact that I don't find it fair that the smn is a phys ranged in disguise. My Bad (At this point I guess it was meant, like as: now phys ranged don't even have this feature anymore, only the percentage for raids characterizes them)Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty
As a caster and smn main for years, I preferred that the cast time wasn't cut so bare.
Because I don't find it fun to press the same button without thinking about slidecasting or pre-positioning. I'd play MCH or DNC if I wanted something like that. I'd play a phys ranged indeed. But that's another story
it could very well become a 2-charge mitigation with 30 seconds of CD and 5s(?) of duration, I don't see why it should be on the pet, just as there could very well be no searing light, which if we were in an ideal world, SL would be the carbuncle's quintessential ability Support + intelligent preposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNyx3
I'm clearly very rhetorical. I would like radiant aegis, SL and other abilities to be on the carbuncle, but since the carbuncle is not fine for me and the obvious things that are present in the game, I would like to bring to the attention of those who read the fact that the carbuncle has little importance and does not actually brings some of its gameplay, like before.
You're damn right, it's the only nice thing to do during fights, besides ress someone who dies and therefore micro-varying the rotation (if I didn't just use swiftcast on slipstream), but this and asserting that the carbuncle is fine, in my opinion are completely different things. Because if it were fine, we wouldn't have the problems I brought upQuote:
I see Radiant Aegis' current functionality as one of the only interesting things about the job, which is pretty sad when I'm making a big deal out of a personal shield, but that's where we are right now.