Idea of ​​adding hard difficulty level to roulette target ID

Hello everyone on overseas forums
I am passing it through a translator. I don't know if I can convey my intention well.
This will be a long post.
I'm sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable.


I received valuable opinions from EU users who posted on the Japan Forum, and I came up with an idea after listening to their opinions. When I asked the user what they thought of the idea, I heard good feedback.
Therefore, I am posting this to hear the opinions of overseas users. This will be a long text. very sorry.


How about adding a hard difficulty level to the roulette target ID?
I like the new lv50 (2.x) ID the most. Why?

1. There are patrolling mobs placed along the way, and if you are accidentally spotted, surrounding mobs will link and attack you.
As a result, the tank has to use a lot of mitigation, and the low blow skill stuns and inhibits the MOB's actions.
Red DPS attacks with full power to reduce the mobs as quickly as possible, reducing the burden on the tank.
Or perform crowd control such as sleep, knockback, and bind to reduce damage from MOBs to tanks.
The more MOBs the healer has, the more they have to stop attacking and concentrate on healing.


2. MOBs along the way will use fear, petrification, and sleep debuffs.
Tanks can inhibit chanting with stun or use silence to stop chanting. Also, place opportunities in your standing position to prevent debuff line-of-sight attacks from hitting your allies.
The healer is Esuna, who will treat anyone who is debuffed by any chance.


3. Boss gimmicks often use invisible range attacks, random targets, and removable debuffs.
Cyclops, the first boss in ID Aurum Vale, has a skill called Glawer.
It's been fixed now, but in the past it was invisible, and there was also a skill that would knock you back if you took damage from a spinning attack, but I remember it being invisible.


It had all the above elements, was very satisfying, and was a very useful ID for understanding game skills even if you were just starting out. I still use it to take beginner users to ID Hauketa for lectures. This is because you can learn various elements such as guidance, patrolling, and silence skills.

However, I feel that ID is becoming more and more boring as each version is updated.
There are fixed group MOB placements, there are no patrolling MOBs, there is no opportunity to do silence or Esuna, and you don't care about the MOB's gaze. Also, tank reduction is strong, healer's 0GCD skill is strong, and there are many skills.
Elements that were present in 2.x have been removed and simplified.

There is a reason for this.
As the number of casual users increased, a simple ID was required, and advanced users preferred that it was time-efficient.
Both casual users and advanced users can easily and efficiently receive rewards, and these two points are aligned, and the developers recognized this, and many ID designs have become like this.

It was discussed in Japanese forums in the past, but if you hit the new (2.x) ID on roulette, you would be wiped out repeatedly.
Due to this background, some IDs have been changed.
Many people didn't want to feel the stress of playing roulette every day.

In Akatsuki, a variant dungeon was added, normal for casual players, Ibun for advanced players, and Ibun Zero style were implemented.
In Ibun-Zero, the healer has a heavy responsibility and the damage to MOBs along the way is high, so GCD heals must be used frequently.
EU users said their experience as a healer in Ibun Zero was good.
At the same time, he also taught me that AD is not very popular overseas

Hard difficulty uses the same design as the normal ID route, scenery, bosses, and MOBs.
However, additional patrolling mobs will be installed along the way, and the damage from mobs will be very painful, and the values ​​will be changed so that tank reduction and healer burdens are very heavy.
Also, the boss gimmick is the same as normal, but some invisible attacks and random targets are added.

With something like this, wouldn't it be fun for both tanks and healers?
Also, on Hard difficulty, there are more token rewards than normal, and how about adding individual treasure chests with materials to strengthen normal ID equipment? (Like the Judge Order Armor series, you collect materials and strengthen them into RE armor.) RE armor can give you 3 materia, but if that upsets the balance, how about the SP that was in the 50lv production armor? Some effects have been added to lv50SP armor.
Akatsuki (6.x)'s raid armor is a new attempt, with effects unique to the armor added.
What about something like that?

Wouldn't it be possible for casual players to practice on a normal level and become more motivated to take on a hard challenge?

The reason why I am proposing this idea in an overseas forum is that
In Japan, it has already been discussed in the past and a conclusion has been reached.

I don't think the results are bad, but I think it's time for a change.
Also, healers are an issue, but I don't see healer mechanics changing between 7.x. I predict that.
I thought I had no choice but to come up with a different idea and solve the problem.

Rather than raiding, I thought it would be better to start with Roulette ID, which is used by many users every day. With the above idea, there is no need to change the job mechanics, and it can be implemented relatively cheaply and quickly by increasing the MOB values ​​of existing IDs and IDs to be created, and changing visible attacks to invisible attacks. I thought I could do it.

Because I've been playing MMOs for a long time. The above idea may be outdated.
You may have a difference of opinion with someone who is just starting out recently.
Please let me know your thoughts.

Also, I only started looking at overseas forums in the past few days, so it's possible that similar ideas have already been discussed. If you use a translator, it takes a lot of time to view threads. I've started a new thread.


I apologize for the very long post. It's hard to watch...
With my language skills, I just couldn't keep it short. Please forgive me.

I don’t have much to add, but I like the idea. Mob avoidance skills are transferable to deep dungeons and field content, so getting players more familiar with them would be a good thing.

I am slightly wary of overusing untelegraphed attack bosses - ogre type (glower, swing, swipe) and bipedal dragon (raised claw, raised tail, clutch head/face target) are the most common currently in game, so it is likely that more would need thought up and introduced to keep it varied. Perhaps the persistent puddles from bibliotaph in gubal too? Either way, it would give the design team room to experiment and get feedback on more mechanics that would not be compatible with “duty support”.

I am a bit torn about the idea of adding difficulty "stages" to the roulette. On the one hand, I am sure I would very much enjoy having dungeon runs that are more of a challenge. As a person who doesn't engage in savage or ultimate content because this is just a playstyle I don't like, I spend a lot of time in dungeons via roulette, for farming minions etc. I enjoyed the Variant Dungeons and was actually annoyed all other difficulty stages are partially harder than savage normal raids, after these dungeons were announced as midcore content. I would have appreciated a version inbetween Variant Dungeons and Savage, maybe on the level of Extreme trials?

However... Roulettes are a way of helping sprouts getting faster queues, so no content is considered obsolete and new players going through the story won't have to wait ages to continue with story dungeons. I'm sure not every veteran would jump at the chance to run harder dungeons, the majority of complaints I got in dungeons about anything are from impatient veterans who just want their tomestone rewards after all. Regardless of personal preference though, splitting up daily roulette enjoyers into two groups would make queues for both dungeon difficulties longer and more annoying. It's simple maths.

That said, there are ways to make dungeons more fun without adding a lot to the difficulty in my opinion, especially for healers. I wrote a thread in the forum a short while ago about utilizing the concept of enemies who cannot be tanked. Many people also voiced the opinion of making more use of Esuna, adding more debuffs or buffs able to be removed with Esuna. In theory there could also be more utilization of Interject, but a lot of tanks already ignore this skill even in duties where it would be of use, not sure if this would change. (Like the Lvl 73 dungeon where Interject/Head Graze can keep the small frog from buffing the other enemies. I suppose one could make the buffed enemies a bigger nuisance, so people might pay more attention to this skill...? Making them do big AOEs when buffed or so? At the moment at least in Europe groups just burn them down with more DPS and using interject doesn't make a big difference.) Utilizing Esuna and Interject more wouldn't make the dungeon harder, just encourage you to play smarter.

So not sure how this could be solved. If the devs could implement a way to encourage people to do roulettes more or so, so the queues wouldn't suffer, I would certainly appreciate a "hard" more. :)

Random side question: I've seen the abbrevation "ID" in the Japanese forum a lot but don't remember it coming up in conversations with people I know from EU. (I only know ID card as "identification card", like passports. :D ) What does it mean? Instanced Dungeons?

I'm for the idea since it probably would scale better to most kinds of players compared to savage, which to be frank feels archaic mostly because of the ramping difficulty of each tier being built around the idea jobs are still at heavensward complexity.

If they do go through with something like difficulty levels in roulette, though, they need better rewards than "this unlocks dyable versions of gear!" because dying gear should be a basic system of the game, not a reward for hard content. They'd probably have to do gear level upgrades and maybe make it an alternative way to reach the patch gear cap, which most people would probably be alright with since they could still make both savage and this distinctive from one another by the end reward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I don’t have much to add, but I like the idea. Mob avoidance skills are transferable to deep dungeons and field content, so getting players more familiar with them would be a good thing.

I am slightly wary of overusing untelegraphed attack bosses - ogre type (glower, swing, swipe) and bipedal dragon (raised claw, raised tail, clutch head/face target) are the most common currently in game, so it is likely that more would need thought up and introduced to keep it varied. Perhaps the persistent puddles from bibliotaph in gubal too? Either way, it would give the design team room to experiment and get feedback on more mechanics that would not be compatible with “duty support”.

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Thank you for your feedback. It would be great if new MOBs and bosses that can be used in DD and field content come out.

As you said, it's not fun if you overuse or reuse it, so you have to think about diversity and come up with new attack methods. The more new MOB and boss designs, the more fun it will be, so I'd be happy if the development would take that direction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Minali

Random side question: I've seen the abbrevation "ID" in the Japanese forum a lot but don't remember it coming up in conversations with people I know from EU. (I only know ID card as "identification card", like passports. :D ) What does it mean? Instanced Dungeons?

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Thank you for your feedback. "ID" is an abbreviation for instance dungeon. "DD" is an abbreviation for Deep Dungeon. It is often used in Japan.


I agree with you and wish there was a version of the level between Variant Dungeon and Savage, Extreme Trials.
Even in Japan, there are people who don't go to Type 0 or Ultimate Content, but like ID.

When it was discussed in Japan in the past, people wanted to clear roulette as quickly as possible. There were many opinions that it was unnecessary. I think that dividing the content into two groups will increase the content waiting time, as is being feared. For reference, how much waiting time is acceptable?

I think it would be a good idea to increase the opportunities to use Esuna and Interject. ID Remnant is hated in Japan. The reason for this is that if you don't use Esuna, you will suffocate and it will be easily overlooked. I think it would be good if there was a way to actively introduce it to other IDs, increasing opportunities to use Esuna, and encouraging people to learn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I'm for the idea since it probably would scale better to most kinds of players compared to savage, which to be frank feels archaic mostly because of the ramping difficulty of each tier being built around the idea jobs are still at heavensward complexity.

If they do go through with something like difficulty levels in roulette, though, they need better rewards than "this unlocks dyable versions of gear!" because dying gear should be a basic system of the game, not a reward for hard content. They'd probably have to do gear level upgrades and maybe make it an alternative way to reach the patch gear cap, which most people would probably be alright with since they could still make both savage and this distinctive from one another by the end reward.

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Thank you for your feedback.
As you pointed out, there is an issue with reward equipment. It's not attractive if it can be equipped with dyeing, and it's better if it can be dyed even with normal ID.
I think the idea of ​​gear level is good. If it can become a final equipment candidate, I think it will also be a reason for people who don't play raid content to try ID hard.

We should have optional difficulty settings, yeah. We have trusts, single player duties with easy and very easy, yet mid-core people who don't want to raid all the time but do like to use their brain kinda get largely forgotten.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tonaka

Thank you for your feedback. "ID" is an abbreviation for instance dungeon. "DD" is an abbreviation for Deep Dungeon. It is often used in Japan.


I agree with you and wish there was a version of the level between Variant Dungeon and Savage, Extreme Trials.
Even in Japan, there are people who don't go to Type 0 or Ultimate Content, but like ID.

When it was discussed in Japan in the past, people wanted to clear roulette as quickly as possible. There were many opinions that it was unnecessary. I think that dividing the content into two groups will increase the content waiting time, as is being feared. For reference, how much waiting time is acceptable?

I think it would be a good idea to increase the opportunities to use Esuna and Interject. ID Remnant is hated in Japan. The reason for this is that if you don't use Esuna, you will suffocate and it will be easily overlooked. I think it would be good if there was a way to actively introduce it to other IDs, increasing opportunities to use Esuna, and encouraging people to learn.

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Thanks for explaining the abbrevations! ^^

How much waiting time is acceptable... in my opinion that's a question without a good answer, unfortunately. Some people who main tank or healer are already very annoyed by a 10 minute DPS queue for any type of content. Other people are more relaxed about it and are ok with 30 minutes, as long as there are other things you can do (like gathering or crafting) in the meantime. For some people it will always be too slow as soon as it is not instant. And in some datacenters, especially newer ones like Dynamis or Oceania, the queues are already long simply because they have yet to grow a healthy player number. For them it might be even worse. If we would get a harder dungeon version, I suppose there would have to be many adjustments to be made in terms of loot etc. to keep both equally interesting, but well, doesn't mean it's not worth trying. :)

Whatever the developers might do, I hope they won't keep with the opinion, people interested in a challenge should just do Extreme, Savage or Ultimate content. When it comes to difficulty in battle content I also often have the feeling people see this very linear. However, Savage and Extreme trials are single boss fights in a fixed arena, a very different experience to the core than a dungeon run. In my opinion they are not really comparable. A better comparison would be the field instance duties like in Eureka and Bozja when it comes to the difficulty and I am very much looking forward to this, but they are very complex and require preparation and planning. They are also not part of any roulettes, so they are rarely done unless people use the partyfinder to get a group for this specific purpose. The Variant Dungeons are the only thing getting closer to this and I hope one day they might adjust the difficulty of Criterion as well, so it offers more of a midcore challenge instead of jumping straight to savage. :)

It's interesting what you say about the ID Remnant. I'm not sure which one exactly it is by name but the description sounds like it's the first level 90 dungeon, from 6.0? The first boss? I heard some people being annoyed with that debuff as well, but I wonder... Would they be just as annoyed by the mechanic, if they would be more used to Esuna? If it would be part of their average muscle memory and reflexes, just like casting Cure or Lustrate or so, it might not be perceived in such a negative way. It would be a part of the gameplay they know and learned to watch out for. Nobody says "stack markers are annoying" or "dodging AOEs is annoying", because they are such a core part of the experience early on. Esuna is vital in maybe 10 dungeons or so, on normal difficulty level. In many duties the debuff expires faster than Esuna could be cast, so it's being ignored. And in others these debuffs are just a minor nuisance, just like many attacks where tanks forget to use Interject. (The game is also not really good in communicating to new players how they notice what debuff can be healed with Esuna and which one can't.)

This is also why I feel like just saying "we want to improve battle design for new duties" won't be enough to make dungeons as a whole more interesting. Most dungeons we play with daily roulettes etc. are not on that high level, but level 30 or 65 or 87. They would have to be adjusted as well, so people can have a proper learning curve for using skills like Esuna. I daresay it would be a worthwile endeavour in the long run though. :)