SCH V SGE changes: address like for like

With Scholars Recitation being reduced from 90s to 60s in Dawntrail. Please, please provide something more analogous to Sage. Sage is getting its Soteria reduced from 90s to 60s when its analogue in Scholar is Fey Union. Instead of Soteria, the more analogous ability to Recitation is Zoe. 60s Zoe would give us the flexibility to boost up our e.prog shield every other minute while still letting us use it on pneuma.

SGE just really doesn’t have an analogue to recitation. Zoe better pairs with deployment which they did with the 88 trait

Recitation (alongside illumination and expedient) are basically completely unique skills to SCH

I agree with your core point that recitation and soteria are a completely unequal pair (as recitation is SCH’s strongest skill meanwhile soteria is SGE’s weakest)

Maybe they could buff soteria so it also affects the buff that pankardia gives, that seems like a more equitable trade. The other option if you consider recitation to better pair with rhizomata as the “skip a resource” skill and have dissipation as the unique skill you could drop rhizomata’s CD but it’s not like SGE needs more addersgall either

SGE looks fine TBH. The only issues are Pneuma and Toxicon no longer being DPS neutral (which doesn't make sense for a variety of reasons: WHM movement changes, the weird cost-opportunity, etc.). If they fix that, I think Sage will play pretty well. It probably still won't be meta but hey.
Of course, making healers more distinct from each other probably means that shared SCH/SGE mit sheets might become harder to put together for things like ultimates. But I think that's ok?

Honestly, SGE has many like for like from SCH as it is, please, let SCH retain some of its uniqueness.

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Originally Posted by Pandurah

Honestly, SGE has many like for like from SCH as it is, please, let SCH retain some of its uniqueness.

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I don’t they are saying give SGE anything like recitation, just that recitation and soteria are totally unbalanced in comparative power

Recitation alone will allow SCH continue to dominate the meta

Do we know if Soteria affects the ‘damage=healing’ AoE buff Sage gets? I imagine a shortened Soteria cool-down would be really strong if it could affect ‘aoe Kardia’.
That said, from what I gathered the new ability gives a separate buff from Kardia, so I’m not sure why it would be affected by Soteria

Also I do agree that the power difference between Soteria and Recitation is a fairly cavernous gap; ridiculously overpowered healing seems to be about all they can ever do for Scholar these days lol. I think Recitation still affects the strength of the instant Adloquium/Concitation (Succor II) we get during Seraphism, so the shield spread potential is going to be egregiously powerful lol, in my opinion

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Originally Posted by Connor

Do we know if Soteria affects the ‘damage=healing’ AoE buff Sage gets? I imagine a shortened Soteria cool-down would be really strong if it could affect ‘aoe Kardia’.
That said, from what I gathered the new ability gives a separate buff from Kardia, so I’m not sure why it would be affected by Soteria

Also I do agree that the power difference between Soteria and Recitation is a fairly cavernous gap; ridiculously overpowered healing seems to be about all they can ever do for Scholar these days lol. I think Recitation still affects the strength or Adloquium/Concitation (Succor II), so the shield spread potential is going to be egregiously powerful lol, in my opinion

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The three new GCD’s (the succor upgrade and the 2 seraphism upgrades) all still apply galvanise so their effect with recitation is unchanged

Soteria also doesn’t affect philsophia

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The three new GCD’s (the succor upgrade and the 2 seraphism upgrades) all still apply galvanise so their effect with recitation is unchanged

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Recitation has no mention of the new abilities in its tooltips, which could be a small error. Or Recitation won't work with Manifestation/Accession. So while the shields (Galvanize) will still be able to be spread after casting Manifestation/Accession, I'm unsure that Recitation will work with either new ability.

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Originally Posted by Pandurah

Recitation has no mention of the new abilities in its tooltips, which could be a small error. Or Recitation won't work with Manifestation/Accession. So while the shields (Galvanize) will still be able to be spread after casting Manifestation/Accession, I'm unsure that Recitation will work with either new ability.

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That’s actually a good pickup I didn’t notice that

Soteria and Recitation are actually comparable from dungeon/tank-perspective,

Soteria results in 1156p. Recitation+Excog is 1200p.

The intent seems to be shoring up that equivalency.

Zoe is selected as the Deployment Tactics equivalent as they are both gained at the same level, have similar purposes when they are picked up (very close in potency when comparing Zoe+E.Prog to Adlo+Deployment Tactics), and gain their cooldown reduction at the same.

Recitation may be more versatile in terms of Adlo/Aetherflow, but Zoe works with the SGE’s 90 Pneuma.

It’s not a satisfactory explanation, but I think it’s the best to understand what’s going on in the developers head (no matter how off it may be).

Give me Miasma II back and put Baneful Impaction on a 60 second cooldown first. Sage is the "DPS Healer", so it got additional DPS tools the other healers did not. Scholar is being pushed as the ultimate raid healer for some reason, with cooldown efficiency now exceeding Sage and White Mage/Astrologian frankly. Sage does not need a skill that is near equivalent to Recitation when it has a much larger DPS toolkit by comparison.

Honestly if I was a sage player I think I'd argue for another ability to compete with this buff instead of copying scholar.

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Originally Posted by ToodlesElNoodles

Soteria and Recitation are actually comparable from dungeon/tank-perspective,

Soteria results in 1156p. Recitation+Excog is 1200p.

The intent seems to be shoring up that equivalency.

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Not comparable.

Soteria is a 70% boost for 4 hits. If Kardion still heals for 170p, then Soteria comes out to 476p, and only if all 4 hits are spent as attacks (so 476p in 10 seconds).
If you want to count Kardion healing over 4 hits for the additional 680p, then you need to factor in SCH's Embrace.

I think the most comparable thing they could have done is reducing rhizomata and leaning into the “recitation is a gauge skip skill” and not “recitation is a force crit skill” because forced crits is an entirely unique mechanic to SCH

the problem with 1 to 1 comparisons of SCH and SGE skills is when you do a 1 to 1 of the closest equivalent there is almost zero skills that SCH doesn’t end up the stronger option and usually the more flexible one as well (example union vs soteria or seraph vs panhaima)

There is scarcely a 1 to 1 CD reduction you could make that wouldn’t benefit SCH far more than SGE

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Originally Posted by Connor

Do we know if Soteria affects the ‘damage=healing’ AoE buff Sage gets? I imagine a shortened Soteria cool-down would be really strong if it could affect ‘aoe Kardia’.
That said, from what I gathered the new ability gives a separate buff from Kardia, so I’m not sure why it would be affected by Soteria

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Soteria also doesn’t affect philsophia

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If all the attacks said

Additional Effect: Restores HP to targets under the effect of Kardion granted by you.
Additional Effect: Restores HP to targets under the effect of Eudaimonia granted by you.

and Soteria only said

Grants 4 stacks of Soteria, each stack increasing the Cure potency of Kardion effects granted by you by 70%.

Then it would be clear that the intent was for Soteria to buff only and specifically Kardion. However, since no attacks mention Eudaimonia at all, we cannot know if the lack of mention of Eudaimonia in Soteria is an intentional indicator that Soteria does not affect Eudaimonia without actually seeing the combination in action.

Did any of the media tour folks demonstrate this so we could see if they interact or not?

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Originally Posted by Rongway

If all the attacks said

Additional Effect: Restores HP to targets under the effect of Kardion granted by you.
Additional Effect: Restores HP to targets under the effect of Eudaimonia granted by you.

and Soteria only said

Grants 4 stacks of Soteria, each stack increasing the Cure potency of Kardion effects granted by you by 70%.

Then it would be clear that the intent was for Soteria to buff only and specifically Kardion. However, since no attacks mention Eudaimonia at all, we cannot know if the lack of mention of Eudaimonia in Soteria is an intentional indicator that Soteria does not affect Eudaimonia without actually seeing the combination in action.

Did any of the media tour folks demonstrate this so we could see if they interact or not?

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Philosophia affects all spells and not just damage spells so it really wouldn’t work

Like if you use soteria then philosophia then e diagnosis kardia isn’t being triggered so there is nothing for soteria to buff

Soteria doesn’t mention buffing eudamonia at all it only mentions kardia